Jeb Bush In 1995: Unwed Mothers Should Be Publicly Shamed

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Isn't that exactly what Jeb Bush does? Live off the taxpayers?

WTF do you get that? All I said was, that societal pressures influence behavior. That is a fact.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Shaming though? Seriously?

That's a bit of hyperbole isn't it? I get the emotional response, but the facts of the matter is there is a point in that social mores and a sense of "shame" inspires better personal behavior.

Hyperbole?

As if there are no alternatives to shaming. As if people in a bad situation need it made worse.

Shame on you.

So let me get this straight. You are trying to do to me what you are bitching about him doing? Hypocrite much? The facts of the matter is that social mores and societal expectations change behavior more than anything else, even fear of legal action. It is rather ignorant to dismiss that aspect of societal behavior.

You got it. Intentionally. How'd that feel?

It feels like you are irrational and emotional and cannot address issues logically.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Isn't that exactly what Jeb Bush does? Live off the taxpayers?

WTF do you get that? All I said was, that societal pressures influence behavior. That is a fact.

Societal pressures correlate to shaming?

And when that kind of societal pressure called shaming and humiliation leads to depression and maybe even suicide, that's okay by you?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Shaming though? Seriously?

That's a bit of hyperbole isn't it? I get the emotional response, but the facts of the matter is there is a point in that social mores and a sense of "shame" inspires better personal behavior.

Hyperbole?

As if there are no alternatives to shaming. As if people in a bad situation need it made worse.

Shame on you.

So let me get this straight. You are trying to do to me what you are bitching about him doing? Hypocrite much? The facts of the matter is that social mores and societal expectations change behavior more than anything else, even fear of legal action. It is rather ignorant to dismiss that aspect of societal behavior.

You got it. Intentionally. How'd that feel?

It feels like you are irrational and emotional and cannot address issues logically.

Perhaps our definitions of shaming are not the same.

I prefer education and counselling and support myself.

Shaming I will never agree with. Never. Call that emotional if you must. I call it wrong. In any society.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ~Lucidity

There is public shaming now.

If you disagree with gay marriage, you are publically shamed.

Shamed or disagreed with? If shamed, that's not right either. You're entitled to your opinion, but does anyone really care y care about what you think about same-sex marriage or unwed parents? Is it your business somehow?

The only acceptable societal behavior is the one you and some others agree with?

Shamed.

100 years ago, shaming was acceptable if women showed too much skin.

Shaming was acceptable if men didn't wear hats.

Shaming has been and will continue to be an aspect in our society.

But it'll all depend on the moral, ethical, societal "temperature" of the times.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Isn't that exactly what Jeb Bush does? Live off the taxpayers?

WTF do you get that? All I said was, that societal pressures influence behavior. That is a fact.

Societal pressures correlate to shaming?

And when that kind of societal pressure called shaming and humiliation leads to depression and maybe even suicide, that's okay by you?

When I was a kid, we were dirt poor. It was embarrassing to take welfare so people worked hard to stay off welfare. That societal pressure helped eliminate people form the welfare roles who didn't really need it.

It is a rather well recognized aspect of how societies work. I'm sorry if you cannot recognize it.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

I would personally call this a myth, albeit a very persistant and popular one among some.

No one, but for maybe a very, very few, wants to be so poor that they need to be on public assistance.

What sort of cave have you been living in? Public assistance can be very lucrative and provides a good crutch for millions of americans. But more than ever these days public assistance has become more like addendum income for couples who don't get officially married so the mother can be on assistance while the father works.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Oh, I recogize it. I simply don't agree with it.

And I truly believe, as the one comment from the article I posted said, shame comes from within a person, as you so well describe here in your example. Most truly empathetic people who understood the need of your family for assistance would not have judged you and probably for the most part probably really didn't. But you felt it. Others in your situation may not have been fazed by it at all.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Isn't that exactly what Jeb Bush does? Live off the taxpayers?

WTF do you get that? All I said was, that societal pressures influence behavior. That is a fact.

I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about Jeb Bush. I just find it ironic when welfare queens like Jeb Bush talk down to impoverished Americans while supporting other welfare giants like the corporations we subsidize.

It's the whole tactic of blaming the poor guy for using your resources but thanking the rich guy for using even more of your resources.

Psychologically, this suggestive exposure can place some people into their own little self-shaming spheres.

Some will even huddle amongst themselves and cover their faces.

Damage !!

a reply to: Logarock

Statistics please.

A few abuses and poorly implemented and monitored cases trotted out as the norm don't make it a trend.

No one I know, and I know many, prefers being poor and on assistance, which isn't really enough to live on in the vast majority of cases. It's not an easy hole to crawl out of either, yet you seem to believe that shaming them will help them do that somehow?

Fat Shaming
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Makeup Shaming
www.today.com...

Gay Shaming
en.wikipedia.org...

Man Shaming
lissarankin.com...

Black Shaming
blackmillennials.com...


Shaming seems to be very popular now-a-days.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Isn't that exactly what Jeb Bush does? Live off the taxpayers?

WTF do you get that? All I said was, that societal pressures influence behavior. That is a fact.

Societal pressures correlate to shaming?

And when that kind of societal pressure called shaming and humiliation leads to depression and maybe even suicide, that's okay by you?

Well fair enough but the truth is within one generation after Johnson signed off on the Great Society Bill the number of unwed mothers on relief shot through the roof and those numbers grew exponentially and then morphed into a support alternative to marriage.

a reply to: Cuervo

What !!!

Jeb is a welfare queen?

What a shock.

I thought he worked for an investment company before resigning recently.

Maybe ex-governor benefits are welfare.

a reply to: Logarock

What sort of cave have you been living in? Public assistance can be very lucrative and provides a good crutch for millions of americans. But more than ever these days public assistance has become more like addendum income for couples who don't get officially married so the mother can be on assistance while the father works.

All those welfare recipients are living high on the hog, in the lap of luxury, right? Just raking in ALL of your hard earned tax dollars...

man... I wish I could be so poor that I couldn't afford to live, and had to get on welfare, and have people behind me in the check out line, side eyeing the contents of my shopping cart, as I swipe my EBT card. I'd also like it if they would judge me by my clothing and my smart phone, and running into them in the parking lot would be cool, so that they could judge my car, too.

Sounds like an awesome existence.

Maybe, if it were possible to afford to live off of the minimum wage in ANY of the fifty states, we would have less people for you to harshly judge because they are receiving help.

Your blanket statements are showing, maybe you should tuck them in.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Logarock

Statistics please.

A few abuses and poorly implemented and monitored cases trotted out as the norm don't make it a trend.

No one I know, and I know many, prefers being poor and on assistance, which isn't really enough to live on in the vast majority of cases. It's not an easy hole to crawl out of either, yet you seem to believe that shaming them will help them do that somehow?

Are you serious? When were you born?

a reply to: Logarock

Provide the statistics to back up your stance.

I'll wait.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ~Lucidity

There is public shaming now.

If you disagree with gay marriage, you are publically shamed.

Shamed or disagreed with? If shamed, that's not right either. You're entitled to your opinion, but does anyone really care y care about what you think about same-sex marriage or unwed parents? Is it your business somehow?

The only acceptable societal behavior is the one you and some others agree with?

Shamed.

100 years ago, shaming was acceptable if women showed too much skin.

Shaming was acceptable if men didn't wear hats.

Shaming has been and will continue to be an aspect in our society.

But it'll all depend on the moral, ethical, societal "temperature" of the times.

Is most of this shame you endure tossed at an anonymous you by other anonymous people? You feel shame because of things people say to an about you? Or are you perceiving these actions as them attempting to shame you? Does it work? Do you feel shame because of what they say?

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Logarock

Statistics please.

A few abuses and poorly implemented and monitored cases trotted out as the norm don't make it a trend.

No one I know, and I know many, prefers being poor and on assistance, which isn't really enough to live on in the vast majority of cases. It's not an easy hole to crawl out of either, yet you seem to believe that shaming them will help them do that somehow?

Are you serious? When were you born?

What does when I was born have to do with this discussion?

We're waiting for the statistics.

originally posted by: beezzer
Fat Shaming
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Makeup Shaming
www.today.com...

Gay Shaming
en.wikipedia.org...

Man Shaming
lissarankin.com...

Black Shaming
blackmillennials.com...


Shaming seems to be very popular now-a-days.

What's your point? Everybody's doing it, so it's okay?