America - You need to take a stand, this is not civilised...

a reply to: 200Plus

Okay, well said.

I need to consider this more because as usual I am coming back to the solution of mass cull. Which is not ideal. Back shortly.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes because police weren't armed before that right?

Not with M16s.

Oh, no, wait, you're talking about the militarization of police.

No, you where. As in the need for better armed police based on the numbers of guns in private hands…. which, have alwaysbeen there.

Thats why I challenged your position.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Not with a FIAT economy.

a reply to: intrptr

Armed population = armed police.

Can you quote me the specific line where I said "better armed police" (your quotation, not mine) so I can figure out what you're referring to?

Waiting.

Waiting.

No?

Yea. Because my point was that when a population is armed, the police will be to. The UK population is, overwhelmingly, not armed with firearms. Ergo, their police force is also overwhelmingly not armed with firearms.

Any point YOU apply to that idea about police needing to be "better" armed than the civilians they police is entirely YOUR spin, YOUR idea, and YOUR argument.

Not today satan, not today.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: intrptr


Can you quote me the specific line where I said "better armed police" (your quotation, not mine) so I can figure out what you're referring to?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Because my point was that when a population is armed, the police will be to.

Dictatorships notwithstanding of course, where police have all the arms and the populace, zero.

Any point YOU apply to that idea about police needing to be "better" armed than the civilians they police is entirely YOUR spin, YOUR idea, and YOUR argument.

No its not. Founding Fathers despised standing armies and specifically divided defense into military and civil. Big spin that. The idea of course being that the populace needed to be at least as well armed as the government or its minions in order to protect the peoples freedoms. That means every sort of arm in the hands of a free people to protect itself from government oppression. "The teeth behind the Republic".

Unless you trust governments, that is.

Do you… Shamrock, trust your government?

a reply to: and14263

Take a stand? That's all you offer in the OP?
This is uncivilized? We have problems within
our police force?

DUH!

Thanks for all your help!

a reply to: intrptr

Oddly enough I went back and read all my comments in this thread and still don't see where I said an armed population means a BETTER armed police force.

Even in the comment you linked.

Guess that means you're twisting the comment to your own ends. Again.

We're done here. Thanks for playing

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: intrptr

Oddly enough I went back and read all my comments in this thread and still don't see where I said an armed population means a BETTER armed police force.

You said…

But pretending that the amount of guns in the U.S. doesn't have any impact on the arming of police is absurd.

We're done here. Thanks for playing

Anytime.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: NavyDoc

As I recall in Germany one asks you for your license while the other covers you with a submachine gun.
German efficinecy to be sure.

Not to mention landing at Charles de Gaulle in France and seeing manned machine gun platforms, heavily armed patrols and dogs everywhere....I was pretty blown away the first time I saw that.....and I am at the Atlanta airport often.....nothing like that there.

I won't even start on airports in Mexico, nor the insane checkpoints all over the place......and there are PLENTY of other places that come to mind with a LOT more military presence than any place in the US I can think of. It is really in your face when you hit the airports though.....

a reply to: intrptr

You can quote it how ever many times makes you feel good buddy.

I never said "better." My point is, was, and remains that when the population is armed, police will be armed as well.

I know your "thing" is to eeeeeeever so slightly twist a comment so you can attack and launch a diatribe. You're good at it. Problem is, I've seen it enough times and, sadly, have bitten that baited hook enough times that I see it for what it is.

Armed population = armed law enforcement. Anything beyond that that you apply to that statement is entirely inside your own head, not mine.

Ta ta

dear America,

your police force is out of control. they have lost any and all respect. they are not looked up to, they are feared and despised. they are percieved (mostly correctly so) as semi-militarized government stormtroopers. they operate a policy of 'if in doubt, shoot'. also, 'just shoot'. what are you going to do about them? inaction will guarantee escalation on their part, to the point where action is punishable by summary execution. i wish you luck.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
dear America,

your police force is out of control. they have lost any and all respect. they are not looked up to, they are feared and despised. they are percieved (mostly correctly so) as semi-militarized government stormtroopers. they operate a policy of 'if in doubt, shoot'. also, 'just shoot'. what are you going to do about them? inaction will guarantee escalation on their part, to the point where action is punishable by summary execution. i wish you luck.

BINGOS!

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
dear America,
your police force is out of control. they have lost any and all respect. they are not looked up to, they are feared and despised. they are percieved (mostly correctly so) as semi-militarized government stormtroopers. they operate a policy of 'if in doubt, shoot'. also, 'just shoot'. what are you going to do about them? inaction will guarantee escalation on their part, to the point where action is punishable by summary execution. i wish you luck.

I don't think that's a fair comment. Shamrock6's response is more realistic. You have an armed populace and it's incumbent upon those whose job it is to 'keep the peace', to have bigger guns. Is it all getting outta hand? Sure looks like it, but you can't blame it all on the cops, just for having guns. Lot's of factors at play...glad we don't have the same issues in the Great Pink North.
All that being said, I travel to the US once or twice a year, and the only time I've ever seen firearms outside of LEOs was on a range in the Poconos.

a reply to: Shamrock6

As a member of the Law Enforcement Community, I'd advise you to read the post directly under yours.

When the only tool you have is a gun, everything starts to look like a target, especially after you notice that the review board rubber-stamps all incidents as "justified."

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
dear America,

your police force is out of control. they have lost any and all respect. they are not looked up to, they are feared and despised. they are percieved (mostly correctly so) as semi-militarized government stormtroopers. they operate a policy of 'if in doubt, shoot'. also, 'just shoot'. what are you going to do about them? inaction will guarantee escalation on their part, to the point where action is punishable by summary execution. i wish you luck.

Summary execution by whom? Other criminals like the ones that are getting shot? I would bet money that most law abiding weapons owners would more likely help the police than a criminal. I think the thing a lot of people not in the US don't get is that legal gun owners are on the side of LE, not against them. Not sure where the disconnect is, but I, and my friends who are legal owners, tend to respect LEO's as they respect us.

Sure there can be some that are just hot headed, but like I said in numerous threads......I almost always carry, have been pulled over with a gun on my side, spoken with officers with a gun on my side, shown my permit to LEO, and have YET to be shot.....crazy huh?

a reply to: and14263

Its simple: act locally. If the cops in my town step out of line, i will protest. A couple of weeks ago we all protested property tax increases (my home went up 9% in valuation....despite me not doing any improvements). Yesterday, they reduced it to a 3.3% increase, which is fair to me given the surging local economy.

With the police...am i supposed to pick a fight here in my town over what happened 5 hours away? Should I just quit worrying about my job/family, and drive there to protest?

No, you act locally. All those city folks with their powerful police departments....THEY are the ones that need to fix it. Out here in the country we have our cops mostly under control. At least, they aren't pulling THAT kind of stuff, even if they do get out of line occasionally.

a reply to: intrptr

I did. I've never seen those policies.

In fact, one of the departments in my area just had a meeting between officers, supervisors, a deputy chief, and members of the community. It made the news. Know what happened? Conversation. Nobody looked scared. A few looked bored. Nobody got shot. Nobody got Tased. Nobody got beaten. Nobody got arrested. Lots of coffee was consumed and lots of conversation had. Civil conversation.

Trying to attack by proxy now, are we? Cute.

a reply to: Shamrock6

FWIW, the people who tend to be wronged by the police wouldn't be caught dead at such an event. They'd see it as a trap to round them up on warrants that they aren't even aware that they have.

I am certain that there was civil discourse.

a reply to: Shamrock6

How big a community you in there, sport? My comments are more directed towards policing in the big city, hi crime, underprivileged, impoverished precincts. The place most of these crime are reported, on both sides of the law.

I appreciate your fellow officers bored looks. Like combat, policing is long hours of doldrums punctuated by brief adrenaline rushes.