How can any American be a proud, patriotic citizen?

I hear biased whining coming from my hat.

originally posted by: Ghost147
Just to clarify, I'm not saying America is the worst country in the world. Nor am I claiming that any or all other countries are better or worse in any way. Every country has their issues, and that's a fact.

However, America and it's American people are very well known for their absolute love for their country (generally speaking of course). Flags everywhere, chanting "USA, USA, USA!!!" to just about anything, and a seemingly unwavering patriotic mentality. Many American's are excessively proud about their country; and there is nothing wrong with that. However, when the American Government declassifies information about specific actions they take that most would deem "beyond moral reason", many Americans do not even get phased by the information. Some are patriotic to a fault.

This is more of a question than a release of new information, as these declassified files aren't entirely new, and many of them are well known. My question is directed to those American's who still feel that they would bleed on the flag to keep it's stripes red. The American citizens who are seemingly incapable of changing their view about their country. I ask, how do you do it?

Here is the source of this information

1) The US government intentionally poisoned and murdered hundreds of it's citizens by tainting alcohol because it believed it to be a prohibited substance. By adding deadly chemicals to alcohol, they hoped the side effects would be taken notice by their citizens and thus their citizens would steer away from the drink.

The 18th Amendment, which took effect in January 1920, banned the manufacture, sale, and transportation of alcohol — but not consumption. Despite the government's efforts, alcoholism actually skyrocketed during the era.

To keep up with America's thirst, bootleggers not only created their own alcohol but also stole industrial versions, rendered undrinkable by the inclusion of certain chemicals (namely methyl alcohol). Liquor syndicates then employed chemists to "re-nature" the alcohol once again, making it safe for consumption, according to Deborah Blum, author of "The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York."

By mid-1927, however, the U.S. government added much deadlier chemicals — kerosene, chloroform, and acetone among those most well known — which made alcohol more difficult to render consumable again. Adding 10% more methyl alcohol caused the worst efforts.

Although New York City's chief medical examiner, Charles Norris, tried to publicize the dangers, in 1926, poisonous alcohol killed 400 in the city. The next year, 700 died.

2) The U.S. Public Health Service lied about treating black men with syphilis for more than 40 years, to see how syphilis would develop if untreated.

In 1932, the Public Health Service collaborated with the Tuskegee Institute to record the history of syphilis in the black male community, hoping to justify a treatment program.

Called the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male, the study initially included 600 black men — 399 with the disease and 201 without. While the men were told they would receive treatment, however, the researchers never provided adequate treatment for the disease. Even when penicillin became the preferred and available treatment for syphilis, researchers kept their subjects in the dark.

3) Parts of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, which led to U.S. intervention in Vietnam, never happened.

After evading a torpedo attack, the USS Maddox reportedly engaged three North Vietnamese boats in the Gulf of Tonkin on both Aug. 2 and 4, 1964, according to the Pentagon Papers. Although without U.S. casualties, the events prompted Congress to pass a resolution allowing President Lyndon John to intervene in the Southeast.

Talk of Tonkin's status as a "false flag" for U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War has permeated public discourse almost since the time of the attacks, especially after the government admitted that the second incident may have involved false radar images.

But after resisting comment for decades, the National Security Agency finally declassified documents in 2005, admitting the incident on Aug. 4 never happened at all.

4) The government tested the effects of L.S.D. on unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens.

Under the code name "MKUltra," the U.S. government ran a human-research operation within the CIA's Scientific Research Division. Researchers tested the effects of hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, torture, and most memorably, L.S.D., on U.S. and Canadian citizens. Most had no idea.

To conduct these experiments, the CIA paid prisons, hospitals, and other institutions to keep quiet. The department even enticed heroin addicts to participate by offering them heroin, according to documents from a joint hearing to subcommittees of Congress, where President Kennedy spoke.

That day, he regaled Congress with "chilling testimony." Over 30 universities became involved in various studies. Notably, many lacked oversight by medical or scientific professionals. At least one participant, Frank Olsen, died, reportedly from suicide after unknowingly ingesting L.S.D..

There are countless others, and many more that are still classified. We see these same terrible choices even today, the only difference is that the US Government hasn't outwardly clarified that our suspicions are valid, yet.

9/11, the Sandy Hook Shooting, the invasion of the middle-east, so on and so forth.

How can anyone really be so proud of their country if they outwardly admit that they have lied to their citizens, have murdered their citizens, have forced those that want to protect their country by serving in their military to go to war for nothing more than made up instances?

Again, I understand that other countries may be just as bad or even worse, and I understand that not all Americans are patriotic, but it's the ones that do blind-follow and accept everything their government feeds them that makes me so confused as to why they still are.

Ok,I`ll remember your thread everytime I hear Canadians sing"O CANADA" and ponder their treatment of the First Nation peoples.

I admire the intent, spirit, and potential of the conceptual vision of what America could be. However, pride in the mere fact that I was born here rather than somewhere else has never made much intuitive sense to me.

I'm a human being first and foremost. Ever since I was very young - maybe five or six years old - I can remember not only being confused, but even depressed, by what I wrote in a journal once at that age were, "Our strange invisible lines."

I simply don't think in those terms to begin with, so patriotism and nationalism are not part of my DNA if you will. That doesn't preclude me from loving the idea of America, my fellow citizens, the precepts and ideals that I feel represent the best of us, etc. Nor does it preclude me from defending people's constitutional rights and advocating that they be upheld.

Blind patriotism and automatic loyalty are things I will not engage in, however.

Peace.

I'm a proud patriotic citizen because the US is the the most prolific international donor:

In 2013 my country donated over 38 billion dollars in international aid. Not only is that #1, it is 8x more than Canada gave.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

So we should all embrace the suck?
We didn't ask everyone to believe as we do ,nor do we value defeatist minds that surrendr so easily.

a reply to: humanityrising

Skills are BEST used by those who have them,in their intended purpose,it's logical.

a reply to: Ghost147

Patriotism can be defined as:

generally speaking, cultural attachment to one's homeland or devotion to one's country, although interpretations of the term vary with context, geography and political ideology.

It's a very individualized thing. People will love their country for different reasons, and not all of them are going to be for the love of their government or love of those who run their government.

For me, it's the "cultural attachment to one's homeland". I love this land I live in. I love many of the beautiful things that are here and am proud that they are here.

I love many of the people here because of the diversity that is here. Our whole history is made up from a diversity of many cultures and over time, we have diversity in our own culture that is here.

I love the ideaology of our government system, and how it is suppose to work. That does not mean that I love what individuals in power may have done in the past or present.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that are horrified or ashamed of things that their country has done in the past or present, and yet they still love their country too.

Not every individual who loves their country is going to be a flag waving fanatic about it, chanting their country's name. I've lived in many different countries and have seen many who love their country and all for many different reasons, and not all of them are because of their country's actions, but simply because of what is in their country, their culture and accomplishments.

To me your OP is to narrow of a view point of what being a patriot means: It's not only about loving one's government or the willing to serve those in power who's actions you disapprove of.

Patriotism encompasses a very large area of why someone loves their country or where they live, and for a multitude of reasons.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Ultralight

I'm not sure where I represented a misunderstanding during or after the question? I tried my best to clarify that I didn't believe America was the sum of all evil in the world, or that other countries had no issues, or that all Americans are intrinsically equal in mentality. Tsurfer2000h had answered the question in my OP and I accepted his answer. Is there a specific point in any of my posts that you feel I was being unruly with my question?

Oh boy! Another "Let's hate on America!" thread!

Sigh.

If you don't hate us, and feel that all countries have had their moments of being less than perfect, then why do you single us out?

Seriously, if ALL countries do it, what is the point in a thread about what the US has done?

Seems kind of redundant, and pointless.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

By recognizing we have SERIOUS problems in this country with inequality.

I was recently at a graduation ceremony and when the National Anthem was sung, not only did I note my own disenchantment, but that very few of the crowd were singing, looking at the flag, or putting their hands on their hearts. Most everyone just seemed to be waiting for it to be over.

In a country that has taken away liberties left and right, allowed corporations to become the ruling class and destroyed any chance for a lower class person's bright future with current prices of education and everything else, I'm not surprised. So many other reasons as well.

I really wish they'd just stop singing it. It's almost painful to hear now.

a reply to: Goodminton

Not just that.

But actively doing something about it.

originally posted by: KnightLight

originally posted by: AnonymousMoose
I love my country, and the constitution for which it was founded upon...the government on the other hand can suck an egg

A country without a Government is not a country.

So.. I mean there is really only one option..

the people in "THE" government are also people too.

Moving on.

How about I love the ideals of the original founding government, but not the current government? haha but yes I love America for her people as well, just not those who call themselves politicians

originally posted by: Ghost147
However, America and it's American people are very well known for their absolute love for their country (generally speaking of course). Flags everywhere, chanting "USA, USA, USA!!!" to just about anything, and a seemingly unwavering patriotic mentality.

Many American's are excessively proud about their country; and there is nothing wrong with that. However, when the American Government declassifies information about specific actions they take that most would deem "beyond moral reason", many Americans do not even get phased by the information. Some are patriotic to a fault.

Short answer...You are conflating Patriotism with endorsement of Government.

Or "Love of Country" with "Love of government"

One can love their country (it's people, it's culture, it's principles) and abhor it's leaders, government or policies....

More so in the USA where our right to abhor our own government is enshrined in our founding documents.

And every four years we get the chance to try again.

I think your premise is faulted.

How can any country be proud of themselves? If you look at this list, you will see that so much blood have been spilled, just for the right to call yourself a name.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now think about this, when you kill someone and blood gets spilled, it seeps into the ground or gets washed into the river. You can keep pouring gravel over it, but the "mental mark" will always be there, that you're living on blood.

Perhaps the best analogy is Agent Orange. Agent Orange is probably still in the rivers(though it's possible that
someone may have cleaned it up), and it doesn't affect us any longer, so it's really the mental mark or concept that is difficult to live with.

Every country is literally built on blood right now, including the Americas(if you include probably the countless tribal wars among the Native Americans. If you assume that the Three Kingdom Wars had that many casualties, then you'd have to conclude that the Native Indians must have fought among themselves a lot more. To me, 100 million people are really too low, by the time the West arrived.) But perhaps this is justice for trying to conquer each other.

Sometimes, I feel like we should all be transported to Mars and be able to start over. Hopefully, if the aliens show up,
they can "purify the land" because to me, this planet has been very "used and tainted."

a reply to: poncho1982

I don't hate America but I grew up with John Wayne,Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood now its Justin Beiber, some fruit loop transvestite 50 cent 5 cents Snoop Doggy doo etc etc. America will be the first civilisztion to record mental illness for posterity

Good question in the OP. I really do love this country and chant USA, USA, USA when we win a world cup game or anything awesome like that. We should be patriotic, but your main point is well taken.

Many do want to white wash our history, many can't take any criticism without yelling " If you don't like Merica, get out!" LOL And many don't seem to be phased by any of the horrible things our country does...like starting an Iraq war for Oil. That's really shady.

We have to be able to see the truth, accept it without having a "Merica" convulsion and then we should take steps to change it. That's what adults do.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

So we should all embrace the suck?
We didn't ask everyone to believe as we do ,nor do we value defeatist minds that surrendr so easily.

The majority embraced it when they stupidly voted for Obama. I wasn't one of them.

Sorry double post

a reply to: Ghost147

I served in the army. When I joined I thought this was the greatest county in the world and I owed it something. The longer I was in, the older I got, the more things I saw the more I questioned this.

I have after much thought realized I am loyal and patriotic to the ideals and history of this country. I am no friend of this country how it currently stands.

Maybe there are done other vets that could speak to this as well, but myself and buddies I keep in touch with feel that we were used, abused, and our friends died not in service to this country but in service to our brothers. Those who really issued the orders will be held accountable and there will be a reckoning whether in this life or the next.