How can any American be a proud, patriotic citizen?

Dissent - abrasion are required for growth. Without dissent and conflict there is no evolution.

If 'everyone' thinks, speaks, and acts in lockstep all you get is stagnation (see the downfall of empires rome persia and countries and the failure of idealogies - see the Soviet Union).

The chinese - within the context of maoism - keep reinventing themselves but only a smal portion of the population is able to participate in the 'debate'.

The Cubans as well seem to be open to change.

I'm not talking about war - a historial means of providing dissent and conflict but intellectual conflict such as in the arts and sciences.

I think it is our responsiblity to speak out our truth and participate in the national debate. We see in the US - vast supression by media of any dissent from the dominate paradymn of wacky Friedmanism + Corporate Authoritarianism.

The possiblity of sucess of South American Socialism (Bolivarianism) is that the are not suppressing those with conflicting ideas as past revolutions have done.

a reply to: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3

I was just lamenting what my country could of been instead of where it going,but that is a concern for all of us, problem with being number one is there is only one direction from that spot,both Holden and Ford will be shut down here by 2017 so keep the car it will become a collectors item.

a reply to: FyreByrd

You're right.

Conflict, not necessarily war, is what breeds change.

Nail, meet hammer.

originally posted by: Ghost147
[...] America and it's American people are very well known for their absolute love for their country (generally speaking of course). Flags everywhere, chanting "USA, USA, USA!!!" to just about anything, and a seemingly unwavering patriotic mentality. [...]

Same reason religion keeps being a thing- your average person can't think for themselves, and if they choose to breed they won't give their children a chance to think for themselves.


Idiots. Everywhere.

a reply to: lordcomac

For loving something, we're idiots? Truly?

a reply to: seagull

I told a guy on another thread.
If we're wrong we're fools we ALL have done that ,if we're right I 'm glad hell isn't a possibility....for US.

a reply to: Ghost147

In the movie, American Sniper, there was a scene in the Texas State Cemetary at Abilene.

There amongst the more than 35,000 military gravestones they talked about Chris Kyle as a warrior hero.

The irony of the scene.

The waste of life.

Speaks volumes.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I think you're confusing politicians with the shadow government, i.e. the military industrial complex, the intelligence agency, etc, that is the culprit behind these atrocities committed in America's name.

American movies are good cultural artefacts that reinforce this patriotism. Independence Day is a great example, where America solves a global problem and gives independence to the world. I remember being on holiday in America and going to watch Forrest Gump at the cinema. At the end of the movie the whole audience rose to their feet and started clapping and hollering. I'd never seen anything like it. We brits are a bit more reserved at the cinema.

originally posted by: Greathouse
Canadians hating on Americans again . What a surprise

Pretty weak defence

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: FyreByrd

You're right.

Conflict, not necessarily war, is what breeds change.

Nail, meet hammer.

I'd liken it more to flowing water meeting rock.

a reply to: FyreByrd

You're right. That is a good way of describing it.

originally posted by: BentBone

originally posted by: Greathouse
Canadians hating on Americans again . What a surprise

Pretty weak defence

Very weak reply .

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Greathouse

. The question was directed at those who do accept everything that the US government feeds them.

.

However, those people are so rare as to be nonexistent. Even the most strident flag waving patriot finds some thing to be distrustful about be it gun control or healthcare.

It's pretty simple actually. Treat people as you want to be treated yourself.

Video

Funny you post this, I was watching just yesterday "10 conspiracies that turned out to be true" on YouTube.



Those are just the ones that were verified because the government was lazy or were outwitted.

Everything can be hijacked, obfuscated, clouded, slandered, manipulated, crafted, bent, distorted.

Even the united states of America. Doesn't mean there isn't good people in it. Good things get messed up all the time.

Tomorrow, I could become a citizen of some country called Boblala by legal or illegal means and then pose an act like bombing another country Biblolo in the name of Boblala. Then the victims Biblolos will hate Boblalas because of my action. I wanted Boblalas to look bad.

This happens all the time to get people pumped about a war or some agenda......Sadly the USA along with others like China, Russia, Israel and others are practicing such tactics.

How can any American be a proud, patriotic citizen?

Oh please.

The US is no worse than anyone else out there.

Simple fact it hasn't been around as long as European, and Asian, and middle eastern countries, and the snip they have done, and continue to do.

Rather easy to cherrypick certains events in American history.

Open up world history books, and put that in to context.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Actually, I don't really see any of it here in Canada. Perhaps it's just a lack of personal experience. I don't know anyone that owns a Canadian flag, and we don't sing the anthem or pledge allegiance in the schools I've been to. Not to say it doesn't happen at all, I just haven't witnessed it at any particular scale.

I have lived in both countries and Canadians by far are more filled with pride than Americans. It just doesn't come out in pledges of allegiances or flags, but rather talk about why they're better because x.

In my opinion Americans have learned humility by acknowledging fault while still loving the idea of their country. Canadians have a hard time doing that as they're more insecure in their national identity.

originally posttheyy: khnum
a reply to: randyvs

....and the principal Democrat candidate for the Presidency in the next election accepted millions into her family fund from some of the most dubious people on earth in exchange for 100 billion in arms deals the Clintons aren't much better.

Do you really believe they're separated by two political partys?

a reply to: Ghost147

I don't understand what you expect? What are we to hate our people and ethos? What does the government have to do with that? Its a hired organization tasked with the functions described in the constitution. Other than that the country, the USA is the people and ethos. That's what we love.

What's it to you?