Russia puts Fear in U.S.A.

Has Russia ever even won a war outside of their borders? Lost to the European powers, the Japanese, Finland, and even Afghanistan. Russia was considered a super power during each and every one of these wars.

Pherhaps you think it was the Americans who conquered Berlin and toppled Germany? Not to mention America suffered heavy losses in the Vietnam war, a war they lost, and they were considered a superpower. Today Iraq is a good example of America's 'excellent millitary'. The war in Iraq was wrong from the very start, but I wont stray from the topic to much here...

Yeah they lost in vietnam a super power against a rabble country. In the long run the USA is loseing in iraq aswell why almso tevery other country in the gulf is pretty much fine example britain

Siberian is right the america people are the most lied to of the civilised world that is a FACT fir a free countr why is praying in public schools banned. why does your government keep secrets from you. why do they portray history like they want to because its all used to make the americans believe their country is the greatest ever. and YES THE AMERICANS GOT TO BERLIN FIRST honest lolz that what the USA wants you to think.and dude the allies landed in normandy when most of the germans were fighting on other fronts. russia had been fighting for years and held its own without the winter helping

and to the other guy Rus is a super power

Oddly enough, you seem to be the only one who thinks so....

As for the Red Dawn reference, it was a comedic rebuttal to his comedic attempt...

Wow, this thread gets better every second.

I'm basically going to give a brief description of the situation between the US and Russia;

Both sides can still kick ass but neither is what it was in the Cold War. Both sides have more than enough nukes to annilate most of the world's population. Both sides know this and they also know that there is no point in attacking one another.

In the mean time while you all tear apart each other I'm going to join Amuk and have some popcorn. BTW, for those of you who are thinking about riping SiberianTiger's throat out, I'm pretty sure he's getting ATS points for every response.

Pherhaps you think it was the Americans who conquered Berlin and toppled Germany? Not to mention America suffered heavy losses in the Vietnam war, a war they lost, and they were considered a superpower. Today Iraq is a good example of America's 'excellent millitary'. The war in Iraq was wrong from the very start, but I wont stray from the topic to much here...

Russia was hardly fighting an offensive war against the Germans. I was talking abou wars they innitiated. They never could have won that without the Western front, anyway.

Even still, America stopped just short of Berlin and waited three weeks for the Russians to enter Berlin.

In Vietnam, our troops were being controlled by politics. No Russian soldier was ever held back in Afghanistan because of world opinion. I guarentee that.

Afghanistan...Remember that? It's the nation Russia failed to take in 10 years that America walked through with a breeze.

As for Iraq, we are hardly losing. The elections next month will show just how strong these insurgents really are.

Siberian is right the america people are the most lied to of the civilised world that is a FACT fir a free countr why is praying in public schools banned. why does your government keep secrets from you. why do they portray history like they want to because its all used to make the americans believe their country is the greatest ever. and YES THE AMERICANS GOT TO BERLIN FIRST honest lolz that what the USA wants you to think.and dude the allies landed in normandy when most of the germans were fighting on other fronts. russia had been fighting for years and held its own without the winter helping

Praying isn't allowed in PUBLIC schools because we have this thing called seperation of church and state. People can go to any religious school they want if its that important. That is freedom.

Russians seem to forget the African theatre completely. We faced probably the best German general of the war, and we did it without vast numbers of men, and huge casualty figures.

Even after the Russians pushed the Germans back they suffered massive casualties. That's not exactly a sign of strength.

Like Stalin once said, " Britain gives equipment, America gives money, but only Russia gives blood." In World War II, Britain and America would definetly have lost the war if not for Russia.

Russia now is a shadow of what it once was. It is currently in a crisis,and it cannot buy its own superior planes which it supplies to India. If a cold war happened now,Russia will crumble.

Russia does not put fear in the US,if it was doing so,then why are American forces pulling out of Germany and moving into South Korea instead? It is simple, Russia is not a threat anymore.

Propaganda wise,the US is still relatively clean. You will know what I am talking about if you spent a week in the US then spent a week in Russia. Russia is a democracy now,but if anything happened Russia will tell you lies. Only America can boast of a truely free media.

Ok Siberian,look,saying "LOLOLHAHAHAHAHA USA SUCKS LOLLOLOLOLOLOLHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA RUSSIA IS BETTER HAHAHAHHAAHA AND WILL NUKE THEM HAHAHAHAHHA" is not going to get people to properly read whatever you want to put forward. It is a pain on my eyes and waste of my lifespan whenever I read something like that.

Originally posted by Liquidus

Has Russia ever even won a war outside of their borders? Lost to the European powers, the Japanese, Finland, and even Afghanistan. Russia was considered a super power during each and every one of these wars.

Pherhaps you think it was the Americans who conquered Berlin and toppled Germany? Not to mention America suffered heavy losses in the Vietnam war, a war they lost, and they were considered a superpower. Today Iraq is a good example of America's 'excellent millitary'. The war in Iraq was wrong from the very start, but I wont stray from the topic to much here...

Yep, the U.S. really lost. No one ever mentions that the U.S. won the first battle in Vietnam, and that the Johnson Administration literally would not let the U.S. attack certain areas of the enemy, thus allowing the Vietnamese to regroup and resupply, and re-attack, thus costing thousands of American lives. The truth is America could have blown Vietnam to hell, but because of the administration at the time, they wouldn't let them fight correctly.

Also, the Army didn't get the support from the Air Force that it needed.

Iraq, the U.S. could mow right through as well, but this is a war in which they are trying to not blow up the cities, and kill the civilians.....

And Americans manipulate history??? No really, so you mean how the Japanese war museums and Japanese textbooks mention nothing about the horrors the Japanese military committed back in WWII, and you call us liars? Or how the Chinese textbooks make all that perfectly clear to the Chinese children to instill all hatred towards the Japanese??

Or how these suicide fighters in Iraq are often the product of brainwashing since they were children.

:::SIGH::: some of the anti-Americanism on this thread is so pathetic it makes me want to cry.

The truth is America the most powerful military force on the face of this Earth right now; people also seem to forget we re-built Japan, we re-built Europe, the United States gives more in foreign aid than all 130+ countries of the United Nations COMBINED, and that is EXCLUDING the money we give in aid to Iraq, then there's the private $$$ sent in in aid....yet all the world loves to pee on the U.S.

No the allied armies re built europe as it was sectioned off to each country. and the british armies won in north africa dude not the americans

[edit on 30-12-2004 by yuanshao101]

Even still, America stopped just short of Berlin and waited three weeks for the Russians to enter Berlin.

I wonder why? They wanted some other country to spill the blood. Very brave thing for America to do....Not to mention that America didn't fight any wars on their continent, and if they have they probably would be much worse off. They joined world war 1 near it's end and simmiliarly the Americans joined into world war 2 around 1943 when it was clear that the Nazis would lose, and Russia was winning.

No the allied armies re built europe as it was sectioned off to each country. and the british armies won in north africa dude not the americans

It would have been impossible for the British to win alone without the Americans.

I wonder why? They wanted some other country to spill the blood. Very brave thing for America to do....Not to mention that America didn't fight any wars on their continent, and if they have they probably would be much worse off. They joined world war 1 near it's end and simmiliarly the Americans joined into world war 2 around 1943 when it was clear that the Nazis would lose, and Russia was winning.

If America hadn't joined in WW2, the Russian offensive would have been impossible.

The British would have been crushed in North Africa. They would have been then isolated to their little island, and it would have been the full force of the German attack on the Russians.

The Germans lost because they were fighting on two fronts. Without one, the other would have collapsed.

As for Berlin, why should Americans have spilled blood for a town that we would have had to have given up once the Russians arrived anyway? It was decided long before hand that the Russians would get to hold Berlin.

Originally posted by Liquidus

Even still, America stopped just short of Berlin and waited three weeks for the Russians to enter Berlin.

I wonder why? They wanted some other country to spill the blood. Very brave thing for America to do....Not to mention that America didn't fight any wars on their continent, and if they have they probably would be much worse off. They joined world war 1 near it's end and simmiliarly the Americans joined into world war 2 around 1943 when it was clear that the Nazis would lose, and Russia was winning.

Oh gee, so America should just go run and join any major war that starts in the world if it doesn't involve itself America didn't fight wars on our continent? You forget the Revolutionary War, in which we fought the British....yes, we had help from the French, but the point is poorly trained American soldiers still fought a highly-trained army. Then there's the Civil War, which was very bloody, and one that really devastated the South.....in truth, portions of America have probably felt war moreso than some of the European countries. Britain may have been bombed, but the South of the United States during the Civil WAr was DEVASTATED in terms of what was done to those people. It was like their world fell compeltely apart.

If America had a war on its own lands involving another country, of course it would've been worse off, but luckily we haven't, mainly because the U.S. responded and fought very strongly to prevent such a thing from happening.

This has been constantly restated by several people, but I'll say it again. It doesn't matter who has more nukes. The point is, both have ENOUGH. Neither is going to attack the other, for obvious reasons. They'll both be destroyed.

To SiberianTiger,

You say American civies know are more informed about what the Russians have then Russia's own scientist. Q: How would you know what the Russian scientists have/ are up to. If by chance you did know, you wouldn't be talking about it on this board because you would mostlikely be taken out by the FSB (former KGB).

To Liquidus,

You said the US lost the Vietnam War. Q How could the US lose a war when their was know war to begin with? I.E. The U.S. never declared war on Vietnam so technically it wasn't a war.

About America not getting into WWII until 1943. Q1. Could I get a copy of that text book? Because I would love to see what other fabrications were in this book. Q2. What were you doing during History class when the topic of WWII was brought up? Q3. Are you aware of place called Pearl Harbor and the event that took place on the morning of Dec. 7 1941? The US got into the fight immeditately after that event.

To Yuanshao 101,

You said that the winter had nothing to do with Russia's victory over the 3rd Riech. Q. Are you aware that Hitler deliberately sent his troops to the eastern front/ Russian front without winter gear?

About the Iraq war,

The US is losing the war because the insurgents are using guerilla tactics. The same tactics used in Nam, when Afghanistan was fighting Russia, and even the American's used then in the Revolutionary war. Plus the insurgents don't have uniforms so the Coalition troops can't tellwho is friendly and who is foe until they shoot at you. Plus we are trying to win the hearts and minds. That means we can't just bomb the hell out of the place because we wouldn't be able to sort the bodies afterwards into the enemy fatality pile and the collateral damage pile.

And in the department of Russian Military Power VS. American Military power. Until both countries actually duke it out they are both equal in my book. However I did hear that the Russian's had a nuclear weapon that could crack the Earth's crust.

[edit on 31/12/2004 by Spetznaz]

Soviet on the eastern front were against 190 German divsions, meanwhile on the western front the Allies were up against about 50 Wehrmaht divions.

Wars of Russia with External Enemies (listing is not full):

375 BC Slavic wars against Gotts
837 AD Madiar's invasion
860 Constantinopol Campaing
915 Pecheneg's invasion
919 2nd Constantinopol Campaing
920 Campaing against pechenegs
965 Crushing of Khazars by Russians
1015 War of Russians against varyags
1068 Polovets' invasion
1095 Crushing of polovets' duke
1111 Campaing against polovets
1183 Common Campain against khan Kobyak
1185 2nd Campaing against polovets
1216 Lipetsk Battle
1223 Battle against tatars-mong. on r. Kalka
1236/40 Batiy invasion
1238 Battle against tatars-mong. On r. Siti
1240 Crushing of sweden troops on r. Neva
1242 Final battle against sweden troops
1368/72 Lithuanian Campaings against Moscow
1378 1st victory of Russians against Golden Horde
1380 Kulikovskaya Battle
1382 Tohtamish's Campaing against Moscow
1395 Crushing of Golden Horde
1408 Moscow's Siege by emir Adigey
1410 Grunvald's Battle
Crushing of german knights
1480 Overthrow of Golden Horde
Battle near r. Ugre
1507/08
1515/1522 Wars against Lithuanian Kingdom
1552 Capture of Kazan by Russians
1563 Capture of Pskov by Russians
1571 Burning of Moscow by Crimean khan
1609/18 Poland-sweden invesion
1612 Deliverence of Moscow
1617 Peace with Poland
1618 Peace with Sweden
1654/67 War against Poland
1656/58 War against Sweden
1676/81 War against Turkey
1700/21 Crushing of Russian troops near Narva
1708 Victory near Lesna
1709 Poltav's battle
1711 War against Turkey
1714 Victory of russian Navy near Gangut
1720 Victory of Russian Navy near Grengan
1735/39 War against Turkey
1757 Victories near Gross Agersdorf
1760 Capture of Berlin by Russians
1768/74 War against Turkey
1770 Victories of Russian Navy near Checna
1773 Crushing of Crimean Kingdom by Russians
1787/91 War against Turkey
1788/90 War against Sweden
1789/90 Victories of Russian Navy and army
1798 Mediterrian Campaing of Russian Navy
1799 Italian and Swiss Campaing of Russian troops
1808/09 War against Sweden
1812 French invasion
1812 Battle against french army near Borodino
1812 Retreat of french army from Russia
1828/29 War against Turkey
1853/56 Crimean War
1904/05 War against Japan
1914 1st World War
War against Germany
1914 War against Austr.-Hangury
1916 Successful Attack of Russian troops
1918 Peace with Germany
1939 War against Finland
1941/45 2nd World War
War against Germany
Crushing of German troops
1945 War against Japan
Crushing of Quantun's army
1969 Military Conflict with China
1979/85 War in Afganistan

Hmm you work it out.

~ Kenshin

Wars of Russia with External Enemies (listing is not full):

The outcomes of those wars aren't discussed. It doesn't detail who started the war. I wouldn't doubt that Russia is difficult to beat heading into Russia.

I do know it named wars which Russia failed miserably in. Afghanistan, Crimean, Japan...

Although now that I think back, I can think of some mildly successful Russian campaigns against the Swedes. I can't remember any that didn't have large losses, and losses of battles.

Russia does not have a very good military record no matter which time period you look at.

Soviet on the eastern front were against 190 German divsions, meanwhile on the western front the Allies were up against about 50 Wehrmaht divions.

By the time of D-Day, only about half the German troops were on the Eastern front.

You forgot to mention the Cold War, lost to America.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
Russia does not have a very good military record no matter which time period you look at.

The Russians Army has usually sucked but the Russians themselves are some tough bastards. While their track record outside of their own country is not good every army sent IN to Russia was devoured. I think with proper equipment and motivation they are a deadly enemy.

But none of the super powers are going to attack the other. Period.

It would be the end of the world as we know it. Any country that thanks the US will not use nukes if backed into a corner is crazy and the others will do the same. The loser will take the world down with them so they damn sure are not going to go to war over some third world country oil or no oil.

It doesnt matter about migs, tanks, subs, etc; the fact is the ENTIRE world would be for most purposes wiped out no matter who WON.

what EVERYONE USA, Russia, China, etc has to worry about is nukes in the hands of madmen.

The Russians Army has usually sucked but the Russians themselves are some tough bastards. While their track record outside of their own country is not good every army sent IN to Russia was devoured. I think with proper equipment and motivation they are a deadly enemy.

I wouldn't badmouth the Russian soldier. They are certainly some of the toughest and most stubborn soldiers you'll ever find, but throughout history the Russians have never had the leadership to use the soldiers right.

Pherhaps you think it was the Americans who conquered Berlin and toppled Germany? Not to mention America suffered heavy losses in the Vietnam war, a war they lost, and they were considered a superpower. Today Iraq is a good example of America's 'excellent millitary'. The war in Iraq was wrong from the very start, but I wont stray from the topic to much here...

what are you talking about!!! man america did'nt over come germany and berlin by thems elf i reckon next war we should let the o so powerful america over throw the ythreat oh by the way the war on terriosum is'nt just america fighting!!!! or are you such and idiot you hav'nt realised it!