Modern Man vs Ancient Man?

Do you think that we are more intelligent now then our ancient peoples? It seems we've definately evolved with technology and have a great bit more knowledge then what they had. But does that make us smarter? There are things that ancient people could do that we cannot replicate today even with our technology(which they lacked). Infact it seems if anything that there is so much information out there that it get's more confusing the more we evolve and progress. You can read or hear one thing one day and then the next you hear something that counteracts what was said before? There is almost too much information now a days that it sometimes seems that 'people' haven't really progressed at all only that time has.
So what do you think?
Magestica

[Edited on 6/6/03 by magestica]

My guess would be that for the top levels, we are probably smater (higher IQ's), but on the general level, ancient man was probably smarter. In the hunter/gatherer stage, dumb people would be more likely to end up as lunch for some passing predator. This would tend to eliminate people who were too stupid to recognize the danger. Also it takes some intelligence and cunning to be a successful hunter. You must be able to observe animal behavor and utilize the information. The more intelligent you are, the better hunter you will be. Most likely, the dumb ones who were not eaten had a tendency to starve to death. As far as more recent times, you have cultures which figured out how to build Stonehedge, the pryamids, etc.

also, nowadays, who thinks creatively except those who choose to??

Tech and society have made thinking creatively unnecessary. The ability to make out a grocery list doesn't really compare with inventing tools to kill animals so that you can survive.

We may have more 'knowledge' and 'information' but the ability to be creative and ingenius as individuals isnt really being practised or encouraged by many people.

OTOH, maybe i'm being too tough on modern man.
After all, we developed nuclear weapons.

j/k

We have come a long way and technology, when used effectively does serve it purpose. Namely, freeing humanity from toil so that we can develop our intellect and spirituality.
Once freed of fighting for our survival everyday, the goal is not to get comfortable and fall asleep. We are at a point at which we can evolve our minds in a global, peaceful, united direction. And the best thing about humanity is that there is no end to what we can do when we actually set about doing it.


[Edited on 6-6-2003 by quango]

You see this is what bothers me really, is that I feel we haven't really moved at all. Sometimes-with certain things- I actually feel that we've regressed instead of progressed. They had the knowledge and capabilities that we just don't possess today(or most of us) because we've become so dependant on our technology that we've lost somewhere along the way what we 'were' actually capable of doing, without it.

There are simple things that we cannot figure out today unless we look back at how 'we' did it years ago. We always have to look back after we've already tried and failed with what we know today. We seem to think there is a better more technological easy answer for certain things, and yet the answers are simple and have always been there, without all the crap we have today. I'm not complaining, but just trying to understand exactly where we are today and what's really needed and what just makes life all the more difficult.

I definately think there was far more mind work and thinking involved in our past. Now we have things and others do the thinking for us..Makes me wonder if part of our brains are falling asleep because seems we don't even need it or use it anymore, like our ancient peoples did..
Magestica

Originally posted by quango
OTOH, maybe i'm being too tough on modern man.
After all, we developed nuclear weapons.

j/k[Edited on 6-6-2003 by quango]

But..you nor I invented this?? Someone else did and probably with the help of what we knew in the past. Whose to say nuclear weapons weren't something already thought of before? Long before ever coming 'out'? And once again it's power, but not human power, it's something that does all the work for us. And even causes great destruction and even extinction..now is that something to really be proud of?
Magestica

well, at the risk of being labelled a communist (which i'm not (not exactly )) we have reached the point where no one should have to worry about basic survival anymore.
Key word there is Should.

But with a large group freed of ever worrying where the next meal is coming from, or where to sit out the snowstorm, etc. our next step, something which isnt possible when worrying about basic survival, is to practice self/species betterment.
Basically, we have stopped 'natural selection'. The disadvantaged can live fruitful, long lives. The weakest among us, instead of dying out can be helped and saved. Thus, we have reached a point where we control our evolution. And it is no longer a physical evolution based on what traits keep you around long enough to pass them down. It is a mental evolution.
So which path do we take.
Peaceful, united, loving?
Or greedy, possessive and destructive?

Originally posted by magestica
But..you nor I invented this?? Someone else did and probably with the help of what we knew in the past. Whose to say nuclear weapons weren't something already thought of before? Long before ever coming 'out'? And once again it's power, but not human power, it's something that does all the work for us. And even causes great destruction and even extinction..now is that something to really be proud of?
Magestica

Yeah, but at some point in the distant past we learned that the spear we created to get us food, could also be used to keep other men/tribes from stealing the food from us. Nuclear weapons, albeit a distant extension, are extension nonethless.

I'm saying it's time to change our attitude from "This is my meat, I killed it" to "this is my meat, i killed it, do you need some of it?"

Originally posted by magestica
Do you think that we are more intelligent now then our ancient peoples?

We have first to define what does it mean " beeing intelligent ".

And who's more smart ? You or Pythagore ( - 580 to - 490 before JC ) ?
Pythagore didn't have any computers, no hi-tech stuff, nothing. he just had his brain and his intelligence, and look what he did.

There is many peoples who can use a computer, but who don't understand the Pythagore theorem.

So, who's smart ? For me, it's Pythagore.

I've also met some peoples who had an high I.Q, but who were acting as fools.

So, we have to define what is the intelligence first.

Is the question about intelligence...or wisdom??

Wisdom is something the ancient peoples possessed...their teachings were simple...basic...yet sound indeed. Perhaps they asked the question "Should we" rather than "Could we".

Perhaps they saw how fecked up the world can get if we strive for technological advancement over spiritual advancement and chose to live the way they did. Perhaps their choice is not an indication of any low intelligence or anything at all...maybe they saw the future, didn't like it, so didn't want to go down that road so quickly...



Peace,
ALIEN

The question was about intelligence *did you read it?*

Really though it could go both ways, some of us may still carry on with those ancient thoughts and ways and therefore we gain wisdom continually as we grow.Some could be less wise and some may even carry a greater wisdom then our past peoples did. I just don't know? It all depends on how closely we remain in connection to our ancestors and how we carry on through our line of what they knew and taught and so on..

But as far as intelligence goes..again, it's really hard to say. We are more evolved of course but does that really make us more intelligent? Without all the technology, can we honestly say we've learned as much as we should have with all the time that's passed? For all we know some or most of our technology was given to us by something else anyway-though that's getting WAY off topic. But think about it-Minus all of our material things, are we more intelligent? Are we the same? Have we actually gone back in time and even know less then what they knew?

By ancient man, how far back. I mean men during the dark ages, during the time of christ. If so, i think they were more understanding of the supernatural world. We are more understanding of the natural world.

Originally posted by magestica
The question was about intelligence *did you read it?*

yes we read it
the question may be about intelligence, but the answer is do we have the wisdom to use it or just acquire it?
after all you still can not build a Pyramid such as Giza
futhermore your intelligence has created many more gods than the ONE
wise up!!!

tut tut

more ingenious, but not necessarily more intelligent. Nowadays, we have many solutions to a problem right at our fingertips, whereas before, we'd have to sit and puzzle them out. No doubt that we have come further than those that have preceeded us. I don't know of any ancient accomplishment that we couldn't do now with modern methods. (If you do, by all means, please enlighten me... )

Originally posted by Gazrok
more ingenious, but not necessarily more intelligent. Nowadays, we have many solutions to a problem right at our fingertips, whereas before, we'd have to sit and puzzle them out. No doubt that we have come further than those that have preceeded us. I don't know of any ancient accomplishment that we couldn't do now with modern methods. (If you do, by all means, please enlighten me...

)

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i love this stuff, it keeps me going and learning and laughing, just like school!
i counter, we have more intelligence and less ingenuity.
in the past we built Pyramids in a generation that evolutionary intelligence can not duplicate in a 100 years for one
Gazok, consider yourself Enlightened
go in peace with knowledge

tut tut

[Edited on 11-6-2003 by bigbrother]

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by magestica
Do you think that we are more intelligent now then our ancient peoples?

We have first to define what does it mean " beeing intelligent ".

And who's more smart ? You or Pythagore ( - 580 to - 490 before JC ) ?
Pythagore didn't have any computers, no hi-tech stuff, nothing. he just had his brain and his intelligence, and look what he did.

There is many peoples who can use a computer, but who don't understand the Pythagore theorem.

So, who's smart ? For me, it's Pythagore.

I've also met some peoples who had an high I.Q, but who were acting as fools.

So, we have to define what is the intelligence first.

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intelligence
SYLLABICATION: in�tel�li�gence
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: n-tl-jns KEY
NOUN: 1a. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge. b. The faculty of thought and reason. c. Superior powers of mind. See synonyms at mind.
2. An intelligent, incorporeal being, especially an angel.
3. Information; news. See synonyms at news.
4a. Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy. b. An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information. c. Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: �Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities� (John le Carr�).
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"intelligence is knowing what it is"

tut

but I don't buy it. We could easily build the pyramids today, and in far less time, with far less man-hours. Let's see ancient man top the Empire State Building.... 'nuff said

With intelligence the question of 'awareness' also comes up...

'Intelligence' implies both the ability to understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. Simple processing power may be a sign of intelligence, but, it alone, does not equal it... in the same light, intellectual capabilities are not 'intelligent' if, through them, you become less aware of the world around you or choose to, for political, religious, academic, or ideological reasons, in fact, ignore it. So, a Harvard professor who can deconstruct every aspect of american culture from a post-existentialist viewpoint, while tossing in some 'gender theory' on the side, may be very intellectual, but if his intellect prevents him from realising (or coming to grips with) that the suspicious man following him down the street may, in fact, be worthy of suspicion... than he's not intelligent.

But to get back to the point about 'awareness'... Awareness, intuition, and even emotion have been shown by modern psychologist to aid in decision making, even purely intellectual decision making (as unlikely as that sounds, a scientist needs intuition to actually realize when he's discovered something, etc. etc.). So, if you're gauging mankind's intelligence, you also have to look at whether or not he is more or less 'altogether' than he was in the past.

hmmn..

I just thought of a much better, more obvious reply, that we all missed:

If we look past engineering/technological feats (in that case, the International Space Station is just as great as the pyramids at Giza)...

In terms of mental/philosophical development: sure, ancient Athens had the Academy, the Lyseum, the 'painted porch', and all the other forums were people could gather and discuss things...
But modern humanity has the internet, and forums like this one, which can be accessed by people across the planet. Now, granted, you need to either own or have access to a computer to go places like this board... but more people have internt access today than could hang around Plato 2500 years ago...
And even the paleolithic hunter, though he might be more tuned into the environement than we are, could never, instantly consult with thousands of other hunters across the globe.
Bottom line: The greater connections found in the modern world maximize our own, individual, potential.