The Hasty Withdrawal of Russian Special Forces from Luhansk Linked to the Threat of Rebellion

a reply to: Greathouse

Belongs on whome you give the money...

I prefer the full version of Nulands speech.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

And please remember who brokered the power transition deal...

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: greyhat
a reply to: Greathouse

I prefer the full version of Nulands speech.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

And please remember who brokered the power transition deal...

www.youtube.com...

How dare anyone foster democratic institutions! Democratic institutions pose a direct threat to Putinism!

a reply to: greyhat

www.ggcorp.org...
observer.com...

Well what exactly do you want me to ask them?

And where exactly at your link is there proof they are in Ukraine, or any contractor for that matter?

As for your second link...

allegedly belonging to an American military contractor.

SO now allegedly is fact...learn something everyday.

Cyber Berkut the wannabe Anonymous hackers that are pro Russian, so there is no way it could be fake...never?

a reply to: greyhat

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Well known pro Russian media outlet....you know how to see if a site is pro Russian, see if they have anything discussing the Russian government in anything other than to make them look good.

www.youtube.com...

Would you like to see the whole interview so that you can understand what your youtube cherry picked quote video didn't show you...

edition.cnn.com...

Just scroll to the video discussing Russian relations.

Best to go to the original source, makes the truth better understood.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Is the Nuland speech linked on the Informationclearinghouse site as fake as the opening post of this thread? Is that your claim?


Cmon, the whole Russia bashing thing is about who is allowed to squeeze out money from Europe for natural gas and everyone with a rest of a brain knows that. The long term ng delivery contracts with Russia need to be broken up "legally", so Russia is forced into a mess where it can be put under "legal sanctions". And the poor Ukrainians have to bleed for that.

"Energy analysis
Europe’s Energy Dependence on Russia Can’t Last

Ariel Cohen / @Dr_Ariel_Cohen / May 26, 2014 "
dailysignal.com...


This game is not about freedom and democracy, its about billion €uro payments by kicking Russia out of business.


Major General Smedley Butler, United States Marine Corps, could have explained this better to you, read his "War Is A Racket".

" In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few -- the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill. "

a reply to: greyhat

Actually, Russia needed to acquire the offshore gas fields that would make Ukrainian gas more competitive than Rusiian gas; that's why Putin had to take Crimea, even though it is a drag on the Russian economy. 're-read the excerpt you quoted. Did Putin pick up a rifle?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Russia claimed they were no longer active members, which apparently appears to be an inaccurate statement with the new info about the specific unit in question.

As always, should you or any of your IM force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. Good luck, Mr Briggs. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds.

a reply to: DJW001

Did Russia finance the revolt in Kiev or was it the west?

If this was Russias idea because of some yet to be found gas fields, why did they wait for that?


In comparision, Putin is at least able to use a rifle, but as a head of state he can not risk to fall.
Do Ukrainian Oligarchs fight on the front?

a reply to: greyhat

Is the Nuland speech linked on the Informationclearinghouse site as fake as the opening post of this thread? Is that your claim?

Out of context is a better description.

I see your falling for the same thing the other members who seem to want to show Russia as something other than they are fell for when it first came out.

Cmon, the whole Russia bashing thing is about who is allowed to squeeze out money from Europe for natural gas and everyone with a rest of a brain knows that.

So you would rather see one source for your natural gas that can ask for as much as they want in prices, instead of having a choice with the chance of finding cheaper rates?

This game is not about freedom and democracy, its about billion €uro payments by kicking Russia out of business.

Nobody is kicking Russia out of business. Obviously you have no problem paying whatever price Russia decides to0 charge then, because if you had a choice for cheaper rates you would take it. RUssia hurts themselves economically depending so highly on their gas sales.

Russia is forced into a mess where it can be put under "legal sanctions". And the poor Ukrainians have to bleed for that.

Sanctions are only in place because of the Russian involvement militarily in Ukraine, and the saddest part about it is Putin knows all he has to do is remove his troops and armor from Ukraine and the sanctions are lifted...he just doesn't care enough about his own people to do the right thing.

And the Ukrainians are bleeding because of the Russian government's involvement in Ukraine.

a reply to: greyhat

Did Russia finance the revolt in Kiev or was it the west?

They are a big reason for it...

This is why Yanukovych needs the Putin who in recent months has made the consequences of an EU deal unmistakably clear to Ukraine. In August, Russian officials began painstakingly inspecting trucks from Ukraine bringing goods across the border into Russia. Ukrainian oligarch Viktor Pinchuck was barred from importing steel pipes to Russia, and a former cabinet minister was prevented from selling his chocolate in the country.

These measures have led to a 25 percent decline in exports since 2011. Ukraine exports a third of its goods to Russia and other former countries of the former Soviet Union, and only 25 percent to the EU. Russia also threatened that it would require Ukrainians to apply for visas to travel to the country in the future.

The Kremlin made it clear the harassment could become permanent. Sergei Glazyev, Putin's advisor for the economic reintegration of the republics that gained their independence after the collapse of the Soviet Union, predicted that Kiev would experience an "economic disaster" if it signed the agreement with the EU. "Ukraine is sacrificing its sovereignty," he said threateningly at a conference on the Crimean Peninsula, which is former Russian territory.

www.spiegel.de...

They made Yanukovych sign because of all the sanctions and harassment which in turn upset the people of Ukraine because the president lied to them and disregarded the promise he made to them and signed with Russia instead. BTW care to provide anything that might come close to showing the US paid for the removal of Yanukovych...and don't try the 5 billion dollar response as it has been shown to not be what some think it was.

a reply to: greyhat

WND First of all thank you for posting a vastly more credible site RT.



By the way that's not her full speech that's a biased writer standing up on a soapbox. Yet they still open with the same paragraph I already posted.

US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Nuland said: “Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of governmen

Like I said $5 billion over 20 years does not fund a revolution. We gave Russia much much more than that during the same time. Why if your logic is so correct isn't there a pro-Western government in Russia when we spent vastly more money there?


No it's called a economic and humanitarian to the Ukraine and that nation of hypocrites.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Russia claimed they were no longer active members, which apparently appears to be an inaccurate statement with the new info about the specific unit in question.

As always, should you or any of your IM force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. Good luck, Mr Briggs. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds.

Kudos for remembering Mr. Briggs!

a reply to: greyhat

Did Russia finance the revolt in Kiev or was it the west?

Russia supplied the agents provocateurs who turned peaceful protests into armed street fights. Have you never heard the expression "False Flag?" The incineration of the Odessa trade Union building was in the tradition of the apartment building bombings the FSB committed in order to justify Putin's war on Chechens.

If this was Russias idea because of some yet to be found gas fields, why did they wait for that?

What makes you think they hadn't been planning for just such a contingency? As for "yet to be found gas fields":

Russia’s annexation of Crimea has totally upended Kiev’s plans for Black Sea and Sea of Azov offshore oil and natural gas production.

Before the peninsula’s March 16 independence referendum, followed two days later by Russian annexation, Ukraine’s state-owned Chornomornaftogaz (“Chernomorneftegaz” in Russian) owned 17 hydrocarbon fields, including 11 natural gas fields, four gas condensate fields, and two oil fields, along with 13 offshore platforms in the Black Sea and Sea of Azov.

Among foreign companies interested in Crimea’s offshore hydrocarbon assets were ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell and Petrom.

Pre-annexation, Chornomornaftohaz also held a 100 percent interest in five offshore license blocs – Vostochno-Kazantipskoe in the Sea of Azov and Odesskoe, Bezymiannoe, Subbotina and Palasa in the Black Sea. Crimea was third in Ukrainian natural gas production after the Kharkov and Poltava regions.

oilprice.com...

I guess you don't get much business news out your way.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

So you would rather see one source for your natural gas that can ask for as much as they want in prices, instead of having a choice with the chance of finding cheaper rates?

Of cause, open markets are great, the problem is that some parties do not want to wait until the long term contracts with Russia run out and i am not willing to accept a war in my backyard that only serves the interests of some gas dealers. To expensive, to bloody, not in my interests.

Remember Smedley Butler: "This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few -- the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill."

No, i am not willig to shoulder that bill!

a reply to: greyhat

Remember Smedley Butler: "This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few -- the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill."

No, i am not willig to shoulder that bill!

But the Russian people have been forced to shoulder that bill! Do you hate the Russian people so much you are content to see them die so that Putin can retain his energy monopoly over Europe?

originally posted by: DJW001
I guess you don't get much business news out your way.

I guess you dont use the grey matter between your ears.

If Ukraine had so much natural gas already available, why did they need to buy gas from Russia?

en.wikipedia.org...

Ukraines peak gas was in 1975.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: greyhat
Do you hate the Russian people so much you are content to see them die so that Putin can retain his energy monopoly over Europe?

Breaking the long term contracts with Russia and/or war with Russia wouldnt make the lifes of Russian people better. How should it?

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: greyhat
Like I said $5 billion over 20 years does not fund a revolution.

Belongs. Who received it for what?

a reply to: greyhat

Actually it goes back to the first claims of the $5 billion being given to the Ukraine in four years. But it's hard to keep up with the way Russian media keeps changing its stories and deleting old stories.

a reply to: greyhat

Belongs. Who received it for what?

Yes, the U.S. State Department spent about $5 billion in Ukraine, but this money — which was spread out over 20 years, long before Maidan — was spent on programs promoting civil society and on charitable programs. U.S. law prohibits the funding of opposition leaders and movements, and there have been no violations of this law in Ukraine.

The objective of these U.S. government programs is as simple as it is self-serving: to spread U.S. “soft power” to other countries so that millions of grant recipients will think positively about the U.S.

Notably, in the 1990s, when the Kremlin was committed to building a civil society, the government welcomed these State Department programs with open arms. Yet under Putin, in 2012, USAID was expelled from the country.

www.themoscowtimes.com...

Up until 2012 Russia was a recipient of the same aid that was sent to Ukraine and had no problems with it. Imagine that.

One question...The money we sent to RUssia was it used to back a coupe there as you assert it was used for in Ukraine?

Okay two...

Do you believe the US government which has had a few different presidents from different parties who cannot agree to the simplest things in this country conspired for over 10 years to overthrow a president that wasn't even in office when this aid was sent?