What was the Motive of Christianity?

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands Acts 17:24
All man made religions are false and are an abomination in the eyes of god for they pervert the scriptures for material things

originally posted by: christophoros
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands Acts 17:24
All man made religions are false and are an abomination in the eyes of god for they pervert the scriptures for material things

Including the one you just quoted, that is man made as well???

Actually that one is more like mad man made... or for short mmm!

Or you have some evidence outside of your book for it being made by all mighty god??

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: christophoros
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands Acts 17:24
All man made religions are false and are an abomination in the eyes of god for they pervert the scriptures for material things

Including the one you just quoted, that is man made as well???

That's the point of the Bible; it is the inspired word of God, and Jesus came to confirm that. Unless, you think this is not true and option 1 is the case:

"1) It is a lie fabricated for no purpose whatsoever by the most despicable group of trolls of all time. "

originally posted by: cooperton
That's the point of the Bible; it is the inspired word of God, and Jesus came to confirm that. Unless, you think this is not true and option 1 is the case:

"1) It is a lie fabricated for no purpose whatsoever by the most despicable group of trolls of all time. "

Why not the more logical choice that it was made for a purpose, by man, to the best of their ability at the time to explain the universe, our purpose, etc. It's a mix of logically deduced and intuitive morality, superstitious theory, mythology and cultural influence. This would make it both true and false depending upon what part you're talking about. While other parts are simply story of some kind with some lesson to be learned. It's been used by man for both good and bad reasons and has taken on a whole life of it's own because of the importance so many have put on it.

That choice right there makes perfect sense. It explains in real terms how and why it exists. It doesn't require any magic or theory beyond our understanding and it does all that without any grand conspiracy having to be applied either.

originally posted by: cooperton
..................
That's the point of the Bible; it is the inspired word of God, and Jesus came to confirm that. Unless, you think this is not true ......

"

That is incorrect.Yahoshua clearly stated what the "scriptures" were when he told this to the Jewish pharisees.

You search[study] the scriptures thinking that IN them you have life yet you fail to come to me to me whom they testify of that I would deliver you to life".

and again

"Making the living word of the creator God of none effect through your tradition, which you have delivered: and many such like things do you."

Yahoshua NEVER said the bible or even the scriptures were the "word of the living creator God".

a reply to: SuperFrog

I don't believe in religion my temple is my body and nature which is where everyone's temple is yahshua didn't stay 40 days in the wilderness for no reason. god is the everlasting presence and vibration of infinite creation energy I know that much..

a reply to: SuperFrog

The bible and it's words are not meant to be worshipped or made into a religion it's a warning and a guide to reach divinity as a man/women and as a society and try and get closer to to what we are and are supposed to become as sentient beings.

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: SuperFrog

The bible and it's words are not meant to be worshipped or made into a religion it's a warning and a guide to reach divinity as a man/women and as a society and try and get closer to to what we are and are supposed to become as sentient beings.

The truth is not there within those scriptures. It does exist in the Book of Thomas (Nag Hammati Library).

a reply to: cooperton
It's all mumbo jumbo.
Think of Christianity as the show Lost.
Fun sometimes sure, but it leads us so far away from anything real that it becomes pointless after a while.

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: SuperFrog

The bible and it's words are not meant to be worshipped or made into a religion it's a warning and a guide to reach divinity as a man/women and as a society and try and get closer to to what we are and are supposed to become as sentient beings.

O boy, did you even read 'those' scriptures??

Not much divinity there, but lots of other stuff, that IMHO it should come with warning sign, as showed on following picture...



So, care to explain to me for example, how divine is instructions on how to use slaves, or for example how to sell your daughter and her not having the same right as slave?!

So question is - did you read scriptures?! Most likely not, or you have someone explain them to you... so that you don't make correct assumptions...

a reply to: flyingfish

(Your going to be wating a long time, the Book of Daniel was written in Palestine in the mid-second century BC by an author who expected god to set up his everlasting kingdom in his own near future, Daniel is just one of the many failed prophets. If the evangelical interpretation were correct, the Roman Empire was to be the last world empire before Jesus second coming, but all four empires were important to the author of Daniel because they controlled Judah and Jerusalem. In the real world the Islamic and Ottoman Empires falsified Daniel's prophecy because they succeeded Rome and likewise occupied Judah and Jerusalem. In fact, they were much larger and lasted far longer than the Babylonian Empire of Daniel's prophecy.)


This is ill-informed. Revelation 17:10 "They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come."

Revelation was written by John, during the rule of Rome, thus he referred to the 5 kings that had fallen, the one that was (Rome) and the one that would arise in the future (Britain-United States).

To understand why Britain succeeded Rome, requires a lot of history and comparison of other bible prophecy. Rome is said to have fallen in 476 AD, and Britain defeated the Spanish Armada in 1588 beginning it's rise to the Predominant world power. So what happened in the more than 1000 years in between?

First of all Rome was split between East and West, and the Eastern part called the Byzantines survived until 1453 when they were sacked by the Turks. The Western part splintered into a bunch of separate kingdoms, but were loosely united starting again in 800 AD by Charlemagne. So in a sense, Rome lingered as a power even after the empire fell.

The prophecy of Rome splintering, and Britain becoming the world power in it's wake is at Daniel 7:7-8:
"After these this I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! a fourth beast, fearsome and terrible and unusually strong. And it had teeth of iron, big ones. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it was treading down with it's feet. And it was something different from all the beasts that were prior to it, AND IT HAD TEN HORNS. I kept on considering the horns, and look! another horn, a small one, came up in among them, AND THERE WERE THREE of the first horns that were plucked up from before it.

What we see in this prophecy corresponds to History. Rome was powerful and "devouring and crushing" with it's military, more so than the powers before it. The European kingdoms that arose out of it are represented by it's ten horns. As I mentioned before seemingly small Britain defeated the Spanish Armada in 1588, but it also gained prominence over the Netherlands who in the 17th century was the largest merchant marine, and it battled France all the way until it defeated Napoleon for good in 1815. So by 1815 "three horns (Nations) were plucked up from before it"

This is explained further in later verses Daniel 7:24 "as for the ten horns, out of that kingdom will there are ten kings that will rise up; and still another one will rise up after them, and he himself will be different from the first ones, and three kings he will humiliate."

It was not until WW1 that the true relationship of the 7th power was realized, when The United Kingdom and The United States became joined at the hip.

As for the motive of Christianity, true Christianity is the fulfillment of the first prophecy of the bible at Genesis 3:15. Jesus is the promised seed who will crush Satan's rebellion and bring about peace on earth.

a reply to: SuperFrog

The old testament is the warning lol those were crazy times you were not supposed to emulate the Hebrews only the prophets these were imperfect ppl the bible shows this but they were taught how to be better people. I used to study the Hebrew txt a lot and there is a lot philosophical/spiritual profound things they speak of.

a reply to: cooperton

Can we have more options that the simpleminded, unrealistic two you offered us?

1) It is a lie fabricated for no purpose whatsoever by the most despicable group of trolls of all time.

2) Jesus' teachings are true and it is the word of God.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: cooperton

Can we have more options that the simpleminded, unrealistic two you offered us?

1) It is a lie fabricated for no purpose whatsoever by the most despicable group of trolls of all time.

2) Jesus' teachings are true and it is the word of God.

thats called stacking. limiting the available avenues of investigation to one impossibility and one improbability. by this logic, the earth would still be flat.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: cooperton

Can we have more options that the simpleminded, unrealistic two you offered us?

1) It is a lie fabricated for no purpose whatsoever by the most despicable group of trolls of all time.

2) Jesus' teachings are true and it is the word of God.

In my opinion it's pretty simple. They either lied about Jesus' existence or he actually did come, die, and rise from the dead. Some would argue its a metaphor or whatever, but the apostles would not have devoted and risked their lives for a metaphor.

Either Jesus literally came down to earth, died, and resurrected, or its a lie.

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: cooperton
..................
That's the point of the Bible; it is the inspired word of God, and Jesus came to confirm that. Unless, you think this is not true ......

"

That is incorrect....

Yahoshua NEVER said the bible or even the scriptures were the "word of the living creator God".

Never?

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)


"Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)

a reply to: cooperton

In my opinion it's pretty simple.

Allow me to complicate things a little.

A man lived. He preached. He had followers. He died.

The followers told their stories. Some people listened, and wrote the stories down. The stories didn't tally exactly, but they were close enough.

Other people read the stories, or had them preached to them. They became followers, too. And they, in turn, told their stories or wrote them down. The stories didn't tally exaclty. In fact, there were some inconsistencies, and you could see that some exaggeration, maybe even some downright invention, was creeping in.

And so it went, down the centuries, and the story gradually became embellished and fictionaiized. Nobody was actually lying, or at any rate, no falsehood was intended; the exaggerations and embellishments were added with the best motives in the world — those who invented them had convinced themselves that this was how it really must have happened.

And so to the present day, or the present epoch, where we find ourselves presented with a third option: the story isn't true, but nobody lied. The story just grew with the telling.

It happens all the time. It's a human thing.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: cooperton

In my opinion it's pretty simple.

Allow me to complicate things a little.

A man lived. He preached. He had followers. He died.

The followers told their stories. Some people listened, and wrote the stories down. The stories didn't tally exactly, but they were close enough.

Other people read the stories, or had them preached to them. They became followers, too. And they, in turn, told their stories or wrote them down. The stories didn't tally exaclty. In fact, there were some inconsistencies, and you could see that some exaggeration, maybe even some downright invention, was creeping in.

And so it went, down the centuries, and the story gradually became embellished and fictionaiized. Nobody was actually lying, or at any rate, no falsehood was intended; the exaggerations and embellishments were added with the best motives in the world — those who invented them had convinced themselves that this was how it really must have happened.

And so to the present day, or the present epoch, where we find ourselves presented with a third option: the story isn't true, but nobody lied. The story just grew with the telling.

It happens all the time. It's a human thing.

A good point, but do you think a game of whisper down the lane could have resulted in a false claim that he rose from the dead? This was a consistency in all the gospels, and honestly the movement would not have taken off like it did if he would have just died without any resurrection. Checkout the life of Socrates; he had a very similar philosophy to the one Jesus presented us with, but Socrates' death did not have a subsequent resurrection, thus he never had a devoted fellowship that was willing to die for his word.

a reply to: cooperton

A good point, but do you think a game of whisper down the lane could have resulted in a false claim that he rose from the dead?

When I was a kid, a few of my friends (ahem) were terrified of a ghost that was supposedly stalking us. We found out about the ghost from a girl who heard it from her sister - who got that info from a Ouija board

Yeah - I think anything is possible. Part of you has to want to believe - but believing anything is possible

Here's another way of looking at it. When I was a teenager, I was in Mexico visiting The Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe. People make pilgrimages to this shrine - sometimes they make their way for miles on their knees. Many do it to ask for a blessing or a miracle. It's an extremely emotional thing to experience, no matter what your beliefs

I was standing fairly close to the entrance when I noticed a woman about to go in with a dead baby in her arms. I was in quite a state by now - very emotional before I'd even spotted her. That dead infant almost put me over the top

There's two parts to this - as far as I'm concerned. First - nobody would believe me about the dead baby afterwards

But, also - this woman believed something could come from her traveling all the way to this church with her dead baby in her arms. If not a miracle, she was certainly hoping for something

So, did I see a dead baby - or was I just in a state? I stick by my story to this day. But, even I have to wonder - from time to time

Did she get her miracle? A blessing? Did she feel better for having come all that way? I have no idea - but carrying a dead child while traveling on your knees for a few miles is a commitment. Faith. She believed in the Virgin

What we see, what we think we see, what we know, what we can verify or prove. What we believe - what we want to believe.... Then comes the retelling of events. Trauma, passion, hope - all of it goes into the story. It's up to other people to believe what can't be proven or disproven

Maybe the motive is hope

originally posted by: cooperton
A good point, but do you think a game of whisper down the lane could have resulted in a false claim that he rose from the dead? This was a consistency in all the gospels, and honestly the movement would not have taken off like it did if he would have just died without any resurrection. Checkout the life of Socrates; he had a very similar philosophy to the one Jesus presented us with, but Socrates' death did not have a subsequent resurrection, thus he never had a devoted fellowship that was willing to die for his word.

I've said it already, but resurrection is not unique to mythology, especially not Christian mythology. And yes, that game could easily lead to false claims being thought were true. It's also very possible that certain rulers changed the story and exaggerated it to control folks over the years. We don't know the exact origination of the stories in the bible, nor do we know whether they were accurate or embellished over time. We basically have no idea if any of it is true and it definitely does not have to be 100% true or 100% lie. Thinking in absolutes is not healthy.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: cooperton

Can we have more options that the simpleminded, unrealistic two you offered us?

1) It is a lie fabricated for no purpose whatsoever by the most despicable group of trolls of all time.

2) Jesus' teachings are true and it is the word of God.

In my opinion it's pretty simple. They either lied about Jesus' existence or he actually did come, die, and rise from the dead. Some would argue its a metaphor or whatever, but the apostles would not have devoted and risked their lives for a metaphor.

Either Jesus literally came down to earth, died, and resurrected, or its a lie.

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: cooperton
..................
That's the point of the Bible; it is the inspired word of God, and Jesus came to confirm that. Unless, you think this is not true ......

"

That is incorrect....

Yahoshua NEVER said the bible or even the scriptures were the "word of the living creator God".

Never?

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)


"Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)

Thank you for proving my point and providing self incriminating evidence of your great ignorance.Neither of them are what Yahoshua said and neither of them say the "bible" is the word of the living creator God.