What was the Motive of Christianity?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: windword

Christianity was developing before Jesus of Nazareth was a twinkle in his father's eye. In fact, Christianity never even needed Jesus of Nazareth to perpetuate it's philosophy.

I certainly agree. But there were variations beyond mystery schools. Read up on Psalms of Solomon. That was where "Son of David" language comes in. The new king to come to Jerusalem, and rule the world from there. That sort of, but not quite completely, was discarded after Jerusalem unexpectedly got destroyed.

Come on you despicable heathen Atheist you really believe this tripe!This is all very simple.Christianity was created by Christians.Not Yahoshua nor the disciples.All this nonsense about Yahoshua or the disciples being Essenes or Gnostics is foppish foolishness.All of these religions are ridiculous rhetoric about nothing....the foolishness of men pontificating about BS.

The very simple truth is …The motive of Christianity is to promote .......Christianity!!!!…in it’s now legion of convoluted doctrines of men…period..what more is there to know.The origins of religion go WAY before what is called religion because mans NATURE is RELIGION!!They cannot do or be anything else.

Yahoshua was not teaching religion he was sowing the seeds of it’s destruction.It doesn’t matter “how” long it takes to destroy it will be destroyed.Christianity does not understand one word Yahoshua said..Not ONE…hell they can’t even get his name right.It is absolutely meaningless to them.

The only saving grace about Christianity(and all religion) is... it has compelled billions of people to not act according to their perverse character.I’ve said it before give me a despicable heathen atheist who’s natural character is moral and ethical ANY DAY over ANY Christian.
The former needs zero compulsion to act morally and ethically. The Christian is compelled by their religion and seldom(never) is very good at it.They talk a good game.They will tell you flat out how wonderful they are and the miracles they have performed because they are CHRISTIANS!It’s like they have zero reading comprehension.They know how to recite the letter of the law but being is another thing.

There is only one qualification for being a Christian..Believing you are a Christian!!They may as well believe they are Martians for all the truth there is in Christianity.What is the motive for Christianity…why is that even a question that needs to be answered because it is self evident.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

Just proves my point, so many contradictions, that it's obvious those who wrote it just copied various existing philosophies and put them together in the worst way possible. Imagine today someone makes a religion using quotes from Islam, Buddhism, Scientology and Mormonism randomly together to push some political propaganda... Imo christianity was created in a very similar way... It didn't started Holy and then started to decline. It actually started way worse than it is today...

Yes and that's one of the problems I have with it. It would have been far better to have dismissed the more noxious segments of the Old Testament and to have moved ahead by building upon the best bits. Both Christianity and Islam have made attempts at modernising the OT.. both have failed. Trying to view the Jewish scriptures through a Christian lens is a textbook example of cherry picking, seeing how it was not written for Christians.
Imo, this theology is nothing more than cobbled together moral philosophy and literary criticism, none of which can ever be absolutely authoritative.

By contrast, if there were real gods, there would be no reason why theology need be so ambiguous. This theology is vague because it is the study of things that aren't real or observed in the real world.

This is why faiths have splintered into a multitude of separate sects. How many have formally re-united? None that I know of. Today there are a staggering number of different flavours of Abrahamic religion, all with their own take on the faith. By choosing this deliberately obscure means of communication, a god has transformed the choice he would have us make into a totally irrational one, founded upon flimsy evidence and bad logic. In the end only conflict can arise.

a reply to: Rex282
I haven't been following this thread very closely, off on a different one. So I'm not sure what has or hasn't been covered.

Come on you despicable heathen Atheist you really believe this tripe!This is all very simple.Christianity was created by Christians.Not Yahoshua nor the disciples.All this nonsense about Yahoshua or the disciples being Essenes or Gnostics is foppish foolishness.

I only aspire to atheism. I don't think that the term "Christian" refers to any monolithic group. I consider Ebionites (whatever they actually taught) also as a form of "Christian". Also, consider Jews in Rome being persecuted for how raucous their arguing over whether it was time or not for their "Christ" Messiah to show up or not. They've been sometimes called "the Christians" too.

Yahoshua was not teaching religion he was sowing the seeds of it’s destruction.It doesn’t matter “how” long it takes to destroy it will be destroyed.

I may agree on that at the moment. There is the danger of projecting one's belief's upon the character. "I believe thus and so, and I can prove that he also taught thus and so". Lots of people do that with varying degrees of success mixed with delusion.

There is only one qualification for being a Christian..Believing you are a Christian!!They may as well believe they are Martians for all the truth there is in Christianity.

Reminds me of the 70s when Wicca was spreading on the West coast. "If you say you are a Witch then you are a Witch". Pretty good recruitment tool.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula

...but how about the gospels that didn't make it to the holy book?
The bible was written in today's form, hundreds of years after the apostles. Where the church chose between the available gospels!!!

(list of excluded gospels)

And Yet somehow christians believe the NT is the exact and only word of Jesus ignoring all the above!

No no no, CATHOLICS believe the NT is the exact and only word of Jesus. Christians are compelled to look at gnostic texts, and other texts that are supposed to be the word of Jesus. I for one believe Jesus and Mary Magdalene had some sort of spiritual connection that Jesus could not have with his male disciples, hence why she was deemed his favorite disciple (Gospel of Mary Magdalene). Some even argue that the Gospel of John was written by Mary Magdalene, but the Misogynist leadership of the organized religion made it seem like John was the one who wrote this gospel (google "mary magdalene wrote john" and its the first option, I am unable to post the link).

Christianity is what Jesus said, nothing more, nothing less.

So, like you said, how do we know what is actually the word of God as opposed to an error by the scribes? Honestly, most of it resonates well with me. Yes, there are passages where I have no idea what is being eluded to, and there are seemingly contradictory verses.

But, the main message cannot be confused.. People didn't even believe it when Jesus was doing miracles in front of them, so I really doubt many people are actually going to believe without contemporary eye-witness testimony of miracles. As you said before, most Christians aren't actually Christians. I'm not fully Christian, I still am enslaved by money to a degree, I worry about the future, and loving unconditionally is difficult. No one is actually Christian. Otherwise, they'd be performing the miracles that Jesus did. But, from what I've read it seems more promising than anything else I've been raised to believe.

I don't know who Elohim (OT God) is/was, but It is not mentioned once in the New Testament. Yahweh (the other OT God) means "I am" so maybe we (as in our ancestors) were to blame for all the calamities that fell upon them. But, Yahweh is also not mentioned once in the NT.

Regardless, I believe the search is within, and any holy text is meant to catalyze your inner search for the truth.

a reply to: cooperton

I still don't get why you are separating Catholics from Christians. I appreciate if you could answer this and check out my post on the previous page. There are tons upon tons of forms of Christianity, Catholicism is but one of them. They aren't different, and what you are doing is like claiming Baptists aren't a sect of Christianity. The new testament isn't just the words of Jesus. There are TONS of other things in there. Christianity is a still a religion and isn't exclusive to the words of Jesus alone. Can you name a sect of Christianity that only follows the gospels and not the entire NT?

originally posted by: cooperton
Christianity is what Jesus said, nothing more, nothing less.

You still have to address issue that there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever lived outside of bible, and even bible includes controversial statements regarding him as already pointed in this post. Add to this other very similar accounts from Egyptian and Hindu traditions, and there is higher possibility that he really did not exist.

Speaking of Christianity, most religious scholars don't agree with your Christianity definition.

From wiki:

Christianity[note 1] is an Abrahamic, monotheistic[1] religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament. Christianity is the world's largest religion,[2][3][4] with about 2.2 billion adherents,[5][unreliable source?][6][7][8] known as Christians.[note 2] Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, fully divine and fully human, and the savior of humanity whose coming as Christ or the Messiah was prophesied in the Old Testament.[9]

But more interesting part is one that you apparently don't like to acknowledge...

Major denominations

The three primary divisions of Christianity are Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. There are other Christian groups that do not fit neatly into one of these primary categories. The Nicene Creed is "accepted as authoritative by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and major Protestant churches."

There is a diversity of doctrines and practices among groups calling themselves Christian. These groups are sometimes classified under denominations, though for theological reasons many groups reject this classification system. A broader distinction that is sometimes drawn is between Eastern Christianity and Western Christianity, which has its origins in the East–West Schism (Great Schism) of the 11th century.

Most Protestant traditions branch out from the Reformed tradition in some way. In addition to the Lutheran and Reformed branches of the Reformation, there is Anglicanism after the English Reformation. The Anabaptist tradition was largely ostracized by the other Protestant parties at the time, but has achieved a measure of affirmation in more recent history.

As well as these modern divisions, there were many diverse Christian communities with wildly different Christologies, eschatologies, soteriologies, and cosmologies that existed alongside the "Early Church" which is itself a projected concept to indicate which communities were "proto-orthodox", in that their views would become dominate. In many ways, the first three centuries of Christianity was significantly more diverse than the modern Church.

* also from the wiki page - en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: cooperton
Regardless, I believe the search is within, and any holy text is meant to catalyze your inner search for the truth.

Can this include also Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead, as that is holy book as well?

Does not take much of inner search to figure out that it is just form of control - invented and operated as business model much before Christianity - in Egypt.

In ancient Egypt, people were firstly made worried about eternity - afterlife - what happens to you after short life on earth, and were urged to prepare for it. Now, this was done following way - by purchasing spells that will ensure your prosperity in afterlife. To be able to purchase those spells in that time required healthy pay and another source of goods for their religion was goods given as part of sacrifice and donations... this is essentially no different then hat/box that goes around on Sunday. There is evidence that at some points priests had bigger influence and more power then even rulling Pharaohs in Egypt. It seems to me that someone figured out how to get all of that under one roof, as having more then one God created also opposing religious sects devoted to different Gods.

This is bulk view, but if you interested, we can talk about that on other topics... yet we will again come to the same conclusion - religion was and is and will be used as control.

One of latest examples is just happening in country called Georgia.

www.bbc.com...

When 14-year-old Giorgi came home from school on 16 October 2014 in Tbilisi, Georgia, his older brother Dato knew immediately something was wrong. Bruised and battered, Giorgi described how four older boys took turns kicking him in front of other schoolmates. "This wasn't just a boys' fight," Dato says.

Giorgi was beaten because he had called himself an atheist.

Rights groups say this is just one example of growing religious intolerance in Georgia's state schools, fostered by what they say is a campaign of indoctrination encouraged by the country's Orthodox Church.

"They told me: 'You offend our religion, you are an infidel,'" Giorgi says. The school principal confirmed the story, but said the issue has been resolved.

But the brothers, who didn't want their last name used, say the intimidation has continued, and they are angry the perpetrators have not been punished. The only alternative school is private, they say, and their parents can't afford it.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: cooperton

I still don't get why you are separating Catholics from Christians. I appreciate if you could answer this and check out my post on the previous page.

All adherent Catholics are fringe Christians. Sabbath is supposed to be on the 7th day, Saturday, but they celebrate on Sunday. All adherent Catholics are not supposed to consider gnostic gospels as the word of God, yet in my opinion the gnostic gospels reflect the ideals expressed in "orthodox" gospel with supplemental information. These are just a couple examples. I also think the Nicene Creed is missing THE MAJOR aspect of what Christianity is all about: that we are meant to mimic the life of Christ, and do as he DID. Not just sit in a church and idly await his return.

(I would love to respond to each of you individually but I'm pressed for time and have been picking at random which ones to respond to [I am reading all responses though, so do not think your words are wasted])

a reply to: cooperton

Jesus said God did not make man for Sabbath, but Sabbath for man. Jesus worked healing on Sabbath. Sabbath was celebrated at Friday night when the Sun is down to Saturday night (since days were considered to begin when the Sun was down). Shabtai was the name for Saturn, and Saturn was called the Sabbath planet.

Sunday represents Light, not darkness or Saturn, so it makes sense why Christians would honor Christ on Sunday instead.

Also, for those who don't know, the Cross does not represent Jesus Christ. The Cross represents crucifixion and death, a weapon used by Rome on their worst enemies.

Jesus said, "I am The Life and The Ressurection; not I am the Death and Cross of Crucifixion". The whole point was overcoming death (the cross), not for it to be his symbol! The Cross/Crucifixion can kill the body but not the Eternal Spirit.

I agree with you somewhat on Catholicism. It seems similar to The Mysteries of Mithra the sun god. They believed he died to destroy evil (sin) and they ate the Bread and drank the Wine as his Body and Blood. Paul seemed to be the main one promoting this form of Christianity saying we are saved by the grace of Jesus's death for the forgiveness of sins, not by works [of following Christ].

Before anyone compares Sunday worship to Mithra the Persian pagan sun god, keep in mind that there were gods worshiped on all days of the week, so no matter the day, there would have bern a pagan god worshipped on that day, so why not worship on Sunday since the Sun is just symbolism for God's Light.

originally posted by: cooperton
All adherent Catholics are fringe Christians.

No they aren't. They are the first Christians and they are not nearly as orthodox as they used to be. If anything, all the others would be considered "fringe" but that's a matter of opinion, really. Most evangelicals see Catholics as fringe, but then again most other sects consider evangelicals to be fringe because of their literal interpretation of the bible.

Sabbath is supposed to be on the 7th day, Saturday, but they celebrate on Sunday.

Same with 99% of non Catholic Christians. Whether Sunday is the first or the seventh day of the week is really semantics.

All adherent Catholics are not supposed to consider gnostic gospels as the word of God, yet in my opinion the gnostic gospels reflect the ideals expressed in "orthodox" gospel with supplemental information.

That's the same for most sects of Christianity again. Usually it's just the "fringe" folks that believe them.

These are just a couple examples. I also think the Nicene Creed is missing THE MAJOR aspect of what Christianity is all about: that we are meant to mimic the life of Christ, and do as he DID. Not just sit in a church and idly await his return.

Catholicism isn't just about the Nicene Creed, trust me, I grew up Catholic and did all the sacraments. They spend plenty of church time discussing the works of Jesus and how to do good deeds for others. Every week there is a unique homily after the gospel reading that relates the gospel to our everyday lives. The big difference between Catholicism and the rest of Christianity is that they believe in transubstantiation, which means they believe the bread and wine used in Communion (Holy Eucharist) is the literal body and blood of Jesus after the priest blesses them. For all other sects, it is a representation, not literally Jesus' flesh and blood.

a reply to: arpgme

It makes you wonder. If Jesus lived in more recent times, would folks be hanging guillotines or electric chairs around their neck instead of crosses?

Sorry double post.

a reply to: Barcs
I've often wondered the same thing, could you imagine seeing this behind the podium?


Maybe people would be wearing these.



Or even something like this.

control.

What was the motive behind Judaism ?
Jews are mistranslating Bible and controlling Vatican, do not you see !?
The language of old testament is Hebrew and the language of new testament is Aramaic not English.
The Evangelical Christianity is devoted to Jews. USA is devoted to Jews.
If you have no religion, if your head is in the snow, if you have closed your eyes, but those corrupted people among Jews have religion.
They even suppress the sound of protests of the righteous Jews.

originally posted by: maes2
................
The language of old testament is Hebrew and the language of new testament is Aramaic not English.
....................

..

This is incorrect .The "new testament" was written in Koine Greek not Aramaic.

a reply to: cooperton

Many people hold the belief that the bible was meant to control the people. I am not saying it has not been used for this purpose, but the true intention of the Bible could not have been as a mode of control.

My opinion is that Christianity was embraced because of the new revelation of an afterlife of a heavenly kingdom instead of the earthly imprisonment of Sheol. Control did not enter the first Christian mindset but I do believe that after true Christianity was stolen and the Christians murdered it then became a power tool of control by the Romans and perverted into another monetary scheme.

The Jews had never imagined a heavenly kingdom for all Jews till Jesus introduced that concept to them. Their afterlife was Sheol till the kingdom of heaven became the theme of the sermons of Jesus. Forgiveness of sin has always been possible in their minds even before Jesus was known so it was not that alone which attracted them to Jesus. It was the possibility of being free of Sheol and entering a heavenly abode.

My opinion of course.

a reply to: Rex282

This is incorrect .The "new testament" was written in Koine Greek not Aramaic.

Originally written in Greek? There are some who do not accept that at all. We may have it come to us in Greek copies of the Hebrew and Aramaic but to say it was originally penned by the Apostles in Greek is not so clear.
www.yashanet.com...

Acts 21:39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
Acts 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,

As you see this tells us that there must have been many Jews who still used the mother tongue and that Paul used Hebrew to their understanding.

Acts 22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
Acts 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

As you can read in context that Hebrew was not a dead language as so many suppose. It was vibrant and used throughout the Christian period. In fact the first Christian synagogue's liturgy was Hebrew and Aramaic. Greek was forbidden to their congregation.

a reply to: cooperton

motive is simple

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


However men ignored the truth and twisted it for personal gain.

The anti Christ is on the throne, for now.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

I think it just snowballed and evolved and is still evolving.

the living word, the darkness cannot comprehend the light

originally posted by: maes2
What was the motive behind Judaism ?
Jews are mistranslating Bible and controlling Vatican, do not you see !?
The language of old testament is Hebrew and the language of new testament is Aramaic not English.
The Evangelical Christianity is devoted to Jews. USA is devoted to Jews.
If you have no religion, if your head is in the snow, if you have closed your eyes, but those corrupted people among Jews have religion.
They even suppress the sound of protests of the righteous Jews.

Well said. Reminds me of this:

"I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." (Rev 2:9)

Everyone should research zionism and its role in foreign policy.