Religion and Gay Rights. A noted commentator changes his tune.

Social Issues? Conspiracy in Religion? Once again, a topic with no clear fit in a forum but worth discussion nonetheless. I have long regarded Micheal Coren as just another raving right wing loon. But he claims to have found religion of late...in changing religions. The process seems startling, even to him.

Coming Out: A gay-marriage opponent changes his mind. the walrus

It's a great article. Thanks for posting it.

I have known a few people personally who have made similar transitions - my dad being one of them. He used to be as homophobic as they come, but even he has come around to agreeing that just because homosexuality creeps him out, everyone deserves to be treated with equality and respect.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Really great article! Loved this point...

But what I can say here, with complete confidence, is that too many Christians convince themselves that there are no questions to be asked, only answers to be recited. Ironically, because most young people in the West can’t even comprehend opposition to same-sex marriage and full equality, and because such acceptance will inexorably increase and spread throughout the world, we may see a time when the only opposition to what is loving and fair will come from an institution that regards itself as an icon of love and fairness. This contradiction will make it impossible to preach the gospel. Christians will be defined by their obstinate clinging to an outdated antipathy.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Two things that got me out of Catholic Religion (but NOT from loving God and caring for fellow humans) that are so well expressed in the Michael Coren text:

''too many Christians convince themselves that there are no questions to be asked, only answers to be recited.''

and

''love triumphs judgment''

Thanks OP for that great read!

This is great! Thanks for posting it, S/F.

It is really difficult for people to admit to such a sea change, especially when they have lived and spoken in a public way and garnered kudos for it.

I applaud this guy, and just want to say that, in my opinion, Catholics are actually much more open to dialogue than Evangelical types. This man is speaking of reconciliation and growth, while John Hagee continues to insist on bombing Iran. A diametric opposition of ideologies, both claiming Christ.



(By the way, Graham Roumieu, who illustrated this article, is a brilliant talent himself - check out his Bigfoot books:

Me Write Book: It Bigfoot Memoir
BIGFOOT: I not Dead, and
In Me Own Words.

Hysterically funny illustrated books for grown-ups.)

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
in my opinion, Catholics are actually much more open to dialogue than Evangelical types.

In my experience that is very true. Even though the Catholic rulebook (catechism) says homosexual acts are sins, nearly every Catholic I know supports marriage equality and doesn't care about what two consenting adults do in their own bedroom. At the same time, nearly every evangelical I know is just the opposite and says God will punish America because of it's acceptance of homosexuality.

Pope Francis favored legalizing unions for homosexuals back in his native Argentina. Of course, he couldn't call it 'marriage' because that's a church term for a sacrament. But he wanted unions legalized and with full legal benefits. That may not seem like a lot to non-Catholics ... but believe me, it's HUGE.

I can't help it if Christ himself only and ever taught in the context of marriage as being between a man and woman.

Maybe the Catholic Church thinks it has special dispensation to rewrite Christ's own teachings, but many Protestants are not so arrogant.

a reply to: ketsuko

Too bad Christianity didn't invent marriage huh?

Sorry you don't get to claim a monopoly on marriage Christians. It does not belong to you.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I've never understood the mindset of people who seem to think that the way others live their lives is somehow a personal impact on their own lives.

It makes no logical sense to me.

Nor do I understand how anybody would think themselves so important that they assume the position of judge and jury for everyone else. It seems so... narcissistic.

Gay Canadians have been marrying for 10 years and not a damn thing has changed in how our country operates...

Our government is still the same corrupt bastards they were 10 years ago, our taxes still keep going up, the banksters still keep robbing us blind, politicians are still lying snivelling little troglodytes, and Justin Bieber still keeps playing his crappy music.

Nope... not a damn thing has changed.

a reply to: ketsuko

I can't help it if Christ himself only and ever taught in the context of marriage as being between a man and woman.

Maybe the Catholic Church thinks it has special dispensation to rewrite Christ's own teachings, but many Protestants are not so arrogant.

They aren't? LOL!!!
I'm sorry, but this declaration is ludicrous in all ways.

According to the author of the article, Christ himself didn't say that. And it's barely mentioned in the Bible at all....
But SOME Protestants insist that 'gays' will go to hell........where the Pope says no. Protestants say that atheists are already damned to eternal torture. But the Pope says no. And SOME Protestants are fine with the whole thing.

So - who is it that is "arrogant", again?

LOLOLOL!!! Really questionable, ketsuko. REALLY??? Wow.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I can't help it if Christ himself only and ever taught in the context of marriage as being between a man and woman.

Maybe the Catholic Church thinks it has special dispensation to rewrite Christ's own teachings, but many Protestants are not so arrogant.

Methinks you didn't read the article.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Methinks you didn't read the article.

Methinks that as well. Was just going to edit to say so....

a reply to: ketsuko

But Protestants are much more lenient about divorce than the Catholics, and divorce was the whole point of what Jesus was saying in the teaching you are referring to. His point had nothing to do with marriage requiring a man and a woman. His point had nothing to do with gay marriage being wrong. This is the only quote that people can pull from Jesus to fight marriage equality, and frankly, it's pretty lame.

I personally think that the LGBT community would experience a massive shift if they simply forgave those who feel differently about marriage.

Jesus forgave those that sinned against him.

I personally don't hold any animosity towards anyone who feels differently.

Dealing with racism my entire life, I found it so refreshing to simply forgive those who felt differently instead of being angry and combative.

I will continue to hold respect for those of the religious community and those of the LGBT community and hope that one day we can just be one community.

(and kick out the progressive commie liberals together. . . . as a community)

I don't understand how asking for equal rights is like pursuing extra privileges, its not like there asking to not pay taxes like religions.

a reply to: beezzer

So, you think those of us fighting for marriage equality should just give up and forgive those who fight marriage equality, and just go along with the banning of gay marriage? Sorry, but no. Forgive? Sure. Give up the fight? No.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: beezzer

So, you think those of us fighting for marriage equality should just give up and forgive those who fight marriage equality, and just go along with the banning of gay marriage? Sorry, but no. Forgive? Sure. Give up the fight? No.

Did I say give up the fight?

No. I did not.

*harumf*

a reply to: beezzer

Okay glad we're on the same page for once. I forgive you for not being a progressive liberal, by the way.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: beezzer

Okay glad we're on the same page for once. I forgive you for not being a progressive liberal, by the way.

lolz

*chuckles*

Thank you.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I can't help it if Christ himself only and ever taught in the context of marriage as being between a man and woman.

Maybe the Catholic Church thinks it has special dispensation to rewrite Christ's own teachings, but many Protestants are not so arrogant.

That might be important if we based our laws on what Christ may have taught. But we don't so it doesn't matter. Let the Church teach whatever it wants, however the rest of us will use something besides the Bible and the alleged teachings of Jesus to make our laws.