God And My Beliefs

"A feeling you have is not demonstrable evidence and that is what I'm talking about. It is also not even something verified by you. How do you know that feeling is God? Have you examined it or tested it to make sure and validate that it's not just gas, or cancer, or a brain abnormality, or something else??"

Yes. I said up there that I have tested it. It is not simply a "feeling" it is a sensation that consistently occurs during prayer. In a way, it's similar to extreme butterflies one experiences when in love. It does not come when I want it to. When I pray i ask for guidance, and when I stumble upon a realization or ask the right question, the feeling occurs. It does NOT occur when I want it to. Often the feeling happens when I don't. But it is consistent and as real to me as any feeling I've ever had for another human being.

"I'm not assuming anything about logic nor asserting logic as a universal law of some kind. There are different forms of logic. When I say logic I mean the process used to validate or invalidate some theory which I can demonstrate or show why I'm making each step. That would be a form of evidence. That is how you prove something. Because let's be honest, Nobody cares what you or I think. They do care about what you or I can prove."

I don't agree. I think there is more to life than what can be "proved." Love technically cannot be "proved" the way that we experience it. Sure, neurological processes might correspond with the feeling. God is something you can and people have EXPERIENCED. People value their own and others' experiences in life, too. You're also being naive in thinking that what is provable by our current knowledge and tools is all that is. Plenty of things were not provable just 100 years ago that are today provable with the knowledge and tools that we have. Before they were proven, they were unproven hypotheses which are no better than evidence-less beliefs. Just because they couldn't prove atoms existed 2000 years ago didn't mean that atoms did not exist. The existence and nature of a creator in its ENTIRETY would be the ultimate question. The question beyond all questions which we are currently struggling to question. Believers hold that God reveals himself in other ways, and we may or may not be able to understand Him through science in the future. Science has no evidence for inorganic life becoming organic life. Nor does it have a decent, proven explanation for consciousness. If I am wrong, please provide me with a link. Please also elaborate on the proof of the Big Bang besides the visible expansion of the universe and supposed left over radiation. Personally I belief in the Big Bang, but through Intelligent Design.


"Doesn't seem logical to me at all. You are inserting God because you want to. You could just as easily say the Universe is Eternal so there is no need for God to come first to create it. You're still left with the same dilemma too. Where did an Eternal Universe come from?? or Where did an Eternal God come from??"

Great. It doesn't seem logical to you? Your belief doesn't seem logical to me, either, though my misguided younger self would find it logical. Yes. We ARE left with the same dilemma. I totally agree! Except I'm claiming that INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, LIFE, and CONSCIOUSNESS are eternal as well, within God. I am not inserting God because I want to. I am not explaining complexity with more complexity. The only difference between your claim and mine is the above. Instead, you would (I'm assuming) argue that life "magically" (yes, magically, because there is no scientific explanation for inorganic matter becoming self replicating organic matter) appeared in a purposeless universe and eventually evolved into self aware intelligence. You think the rest of the universe--the energy that it is all made up of, at least--has always existed and is eternal. I go further to claim that the four things above are eternal and originate with God. The probability of life spawning from non life is virtually nonexistent. Where do these probabilities even stem from? Where does the order and laws of the universe come from?

I state God. Because I view an INTELLIGENCE behind it all. You might question where God and his abilities and intelligence came from, but I would answer that the question is invalid. We are left to assume SOMETHING is eternal. I claim intelligence; you claim non intelligent randomness.


"It's easy to just claim an Eternal God Creator but you can't explain how such a thing could even exist so to claim that as true is a lie. You can't show any proof or evidence of God but you go even further and claim to know the attributes of God also. That is hardly logical."

Read the above. The universe itself could be used as proof of a creator, you just choose not to use it as such. Regardless, this is the biggest question. The question above all others. To think we are at the stage of knowledge and understanding to know one way or another through logic and science is absurd.


"Yes, I will agree that we exist and we share that existence in basically the same way. Like I said earlier, you choose to replace Universe with God. Actually you don't even replace them at all you just put God before Universe. But anyway, I don't see the reason to do that other than because you want to."

And I don't see a reason you find God illogical besides that you want to see it that way.

"Don't make the mistake of saying "Atheists believe....." There is no collective beliefs with Atheists other than they "lack belief in God". That's all. Other than that Atheists believe all kinds of different things."

I was an atheist when I was younger. I'm making generalizations

"BTW, you skipped over how God created everything if it wasn't magic."

Magic has a derogatory connotation in debates like these. The word 'magic' is utilized to make it sound absurd. This is why it is not "magic." If there is a God, it would technically be ALL that IS NATURAL and is therefore only supernatural in the sense that it is beyond our current scientific understanding.

a reply to: Achilles92x
Gotta say fair play to you to articulating your arguments well and trying to address the points I made, for that thankyou.

There is an element of truth in when you say science does ask you to believe, or have faith, at the prilimanary point. The hypothesis part is the believing faith based part, you believe something is true. After that though, it's all about measureable observations based on theory, that has otherwise not been proven incorrect,
That is science in a nutshell. Guess (educated guess) and find every possible means of disproving it. If you can't, it becomes a relative truth. With quantum physics they have not been able to disprove it with the thousands of experiments they've done, thus it is true.

I'm on the bus so cannot go too deep at the moment but will further clarify my stance later.

Thankyou again for your post as it is interesting. Although I would say your theory of intelligent design then later morphed into believing in jesus christ. Do you believe in a religion? Or just god and son of God?

May have replied to wrong guy. Soz

a reply to: Achilles92x
Also I would like to mention the definition of logic. You keep referring to logic but I feel you may have possibly misinterpreted the definition. Please check it out as I feel your perspective does not relate to the word logical, although I cannot think of the correct term for your stance of "logic" (not being rude, genuinely can't think of the better term).

It may help express your points in theses type of debates in future as the debate has revolved around the term logic in which both parties have a different perspective on its meaning. No way diminishing your perspective, just the way you relate it to us non believers

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
I think I'm in love with you. I'm fascinated at the way you see the world. Did god ever help anyone outside Israel. Let's assume when he says everyone, he means Israelites, like it was intended. Your god seems to focus all his attention on Israel, not caring much for the rest of his children. You do realise when he says my people, he means Israel. ..every quote of my people includes Israel in the sentence

Just to clarify, did god give life to everyone who died at the Holocaust? I can't even comprehend how you came to that conclusion that that text relates to that.

I need to shake your hand in real life because I will never meet someone of your brilliance. uniqueness is something missing from most people.

Hey, how's it hanging? Strong believer in the heavenly work and our savior Jesus Christ here. I wish to maximize my faith by having some issues clarified to reach a deeper understanding and grow spiritually here on earth to prepare for the promised transition to heaven. With that said, i'll take all the wisdom and suggestions i can get into consideration and have questions as well. Spiritual growth is very important to me. I take it very serious.

These are my questions: Who is God? Where is God? When will he reveal himself to everyone? When will we be healed of the various disease? When will Jesus return?