God And My Beliefs

a reply to: Septimus

"Maybe it's because that is the truth"

I'm going to give you some credit, because that there is some Bill Shakespeare writing. Even gave you a star for that! Well played!

Yet still no logical answer and just saying it defies logic will still not convince me that one all-knowing supreme being exist and has existed from the beginning, from nothing. If God created man, then God created logic! We are flawed, thus if created our creator is either flawed or a creator that purposely made us flawed. And if this being is flawed then why should any species bow down and give praise for their flawed existence? Wouldn't perfection be more suited for our praise? If we were created from a perfect being then we would be perfect as well.

Let us make man in our image, in our likeness?

a reply to: Illumin
God did make us in his image...He is an amino acid

a reply to: Illumin
People who believe in God/deity etc etc need to incorporate evolution in this day and age to be deemed as sane, logical thinking beings. It can be incorporated into the ideology as evolution does not explain a beginning, just a process, thus it can easily fit into there paradigm. Only problem is, deep down, RELIGIOUS people don't believe evolution as it diminishes the core belief that God made us in his image, god being a he of course. I realised when I was young that there is a 98% chance there is no god, as my family believed in free speech and to think for myself.

I was catholic, agree with nearly all moral obligations, but realised from the age of 11 it made no sense. Evasive answers, referring to "star sign like" readings with vague implications, no answers just believe, so I was fortunate enough to be able to rid myself of focusing my life on a god, a god that we can not prove now nor in 1000 years time.

I do try to refrain myself from posting on these types of threads due to the same recycled conflicting points. However because the OP is honest and open minded I thought I would post a small fragment of my perspective on the GOD debate

a reply to: Illumin

Not here to convince, only to offer a theory. God gave man the capacity to create (or he gave that to himself if you're a die hard Genesis fan). The capability to create in itself is not flawed. Logic is a result of that creative capacity. Thus, a perfect thing can give rise to an imperfect thing. Does that mean that God was imperfect to begin with, or did that perfect being, in it's infinite comprehension know it would create imperfection? If so, then why? Perhaps it is impossible for perfection to create perfection. It is yet another question we will perhaps never know the answer to and are probably not meant to understand, at least not yet. Perhaps we are being groomed for perfection. Perhaps it must be taught. This would explain the difficulty of this existence; coal requires pressure and time to become diamonds after all.

originally posted by: bucsarg
Please help me by letting me know what beliefs are contradicting
a reply to: TzarChasm

well lets start with this one:

"God's view point of humans is not what humans think God's view of humans is."

that effectively renders your whole list pointless. unless you are not human?

and then this one jumped out at me:

"God is not benevolent" followed by "God is the opposite of evil"

a blatant contradiction.

i think i will stop there.

a reply to: WarminIndy

OK, let's assume mankind created religion (meaning to make it out of nothing, not that mankind could have invented it).

There is a difference in creation and invention.

in·vent
inˈvent/Submit
verb
create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of.

cre·ate
krēˈāt/Submit
verb
bring (something) into existence.

not seeing a whole lot of differences there.

So what does mankind creating religion have to do with the creation of God?

And since the context used here is the Christian God, then mankind creating religion long before Christianity makes it a non-valid argument.

there are no records of god existing before humans emerged. any records claiming to hold such information were made AFTER humans emerged, by humans. the word "god" and all affiliated concepts didnt exist before we did. factually speaking, the concept of god has been around for a thousandth of the current universal lifespan. that's 1 out of 1,000. a pretty small slice of the big picture. whats more, the only evidence of theism is here on planet earth. nowhere else. so we are talking 0.0001 percent of the current lifespan of 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the entire universe, so far as our data tells us. for a god, thats pitiful. for an invention from the human species, thats pretty standard. give it a few thousand more years and we will see what happens to theism.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Illumin
People who believe in God/deity etc etc need to incorporate evolution in this day and age to be deemed as sane, logical thinking beings. It can be incorporated into the ideology as evolution does not explain a beginning, just a process, thus it can easily fit into there paradigm. Only problem is, deep down, RELIGIOUS people don't believe evolution as it diminishes the core belief that God made us in his image, god being a he of course. I realised when I was young that there is a 98% chance there is no god, as my family believed in free speech and to think for myself.

Interestingly enough, the RCC teaches that evolution is not in conflict with creationism.

Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.

The 'image' that is referred to is actually the soul. Since God is generally regarded as a spirit, we too possess an immortal spirit within our bodies. Thus we are like God in this way, not the fleshy one.

a reply to: Septimus

Interestingly enough, the RCC teaches that evolution is not in conflict with creationism.

of course the RCC says that. the game wouldnt last long if they were blatantly out of their gourds. as long as it remains arguably plausible and not outright dangerous (which leaves a HUGE margin given todays philosophies) then they can continue to walk around in public without being laughed out of town. using what works to disguise what doesnt.

Let me try this out on you.

God does not think of evil things to do. God does not make evil happen. God does, however, allow evil things to take place.

God is not kind hearted. God is not a humanitarian. God, however, allows these good things to take place.

Good and evil are human characteristics.

Perhaps I should have stated the above instead. Just trying my best to put in words what I think. I'm not a college graduate.


a reply to: TzarChasm

a reply to: TzarChasm

You make it sound as though the Church is anti progress. I seem to recall it being quite active in the promotion of beneficial science throughout the years. To quote Brother Guy Consolmagno: "Science is an act of worship.'" To not embrace science and incorporate it into faith is to deny part of humanity. That sounds like faith based reasoning, not a veiled control agenda. I think the government has ruined much of our perception on established leadership.

originally posted by: Septimus
a reply to: TzarChasm

You make it sound as though the Church is anti progress. I seem to recall it being quite active in the promotion of beneficial science throughout the years. To quote Brother Guy Consolmagno: "Science is an act of worship.'" To not embrace science and incorporate it into faith is to deny part of humanity. That sounds like faith based reasoning, not a veiled control agenda. I think the government has ruined much of our perception on established leadership.

with todays legislation it has become much harder to make decisions purely on the basis "god told me to". the same principle applies to what you just explained - they will only maintain support by playing nicely with the nonreligious world. but thats not to say they wont take every opportunity to cram god where science has left a crack open.

a reply to: bucsarg

You don't need a college education to have an opinion or to question your existence!

I would like to present a question for you however. If the Bible, Koran etc. where not in existence today, let's say were just books that were lost with time, would we be having this conversation? As humans that exist today in 2015, where does our idea of there being a God derive from? From our own imagination, or the culmination of "theories" we have been spoon fed since birth?

a reply to: bucsarg

God does not think of evil things to do. God does not make evil happen. God does, however, allow evil things to take place.

God is not kind hearted. God is not a humanitarian. God, however, allows these good things to take place.

Good and evil are human characteristics.

so your idea of god is that he is lazy and recalcitrant. makes me wonder why you call him your god.

a reply to: bucsarg

My question is why did you let the actions of people determine the validity of the claims made in the Bible?

Mankind wrote the Bible. Not God. I do not trust all of mankind. Mankind is usually out to gain something for themselves.

The chances of the Bible being accurate is highly improbable. To many cooks in the kitchen and has had to be interpreted many times due to many differing languages it has gone through.

I do believe, however, there are many good things the Bible states that are good for we fellow man to follow.

It was the actions of the people and me reading the Bible made me rethink God and man's Religion.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

a reply to: bucsarg

“Who is better able to know God than I myself, since He resides in my heart and is the very essence of my being? Such should be the attitude of one who is seeking.”
― Paramananda, The Upanishads

Excellent.!!

a reply to: BetNun

a reply to: BetNun

does your username mean house of serpents?

I can only give you what was in my mind when I was very young. I kept having reoccurring thoughts pop into my mind that there was something bigger than me and the rest of mankind. Something watching and unknown.

And, from what I've read.... Early mankind for some reason thought there were god's. Sun god, moon god, etc.. You name it they always thought as I did there was something or someone bigger or more important than they. So.... I think even without the Bible, Tora Koran, etc. we would today have some sort of belief system that we worshipped a bigger better God or whatever. It would be something different than what we have been led to believe today.


a reply to: Illumin

I have decided it's not worth it to me to reply to your ongoing sarcastic replies you have been exhibiting to me and the others on this Post.
a reply to: TzarChasm