I want to be vaccinated, why can't you meet me half way.

originally posted by: JUhrman
If vaccines truly caused autism, you would get the same prevalence rate worldwide..

Not true. US companies are not the only producers of vaccines.

Germany produces their own, Russia, China

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: Aboveway

How old are you? (Rhetorical)

You should compare these figures with other countries. It's enlightening...

a reply to: Aboveway

100% Troll.

originally posted by: Aboveway

originally posted by: JUhrman
If vaccines truly caused autism, you would get the same prevalence rate worldwide..

Not true. US companies are not the only producers of vaccines.

Germany produces their own, Russia, China

You don't even make sense.

Vaccines used in the US are even produced in my country. The country of origin of the vaccine is irrelevant. Yet there are disparities in autism cases by countries linked to the use of antibiotics.

Do you understand what I'm posting?

I doubt it.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Yup you hit the nail on the head.

I think doctors and scientists are wrong because they are taught wrong and told wrong.

Then one day, someone discovers that earth is not flat, and we all advance.

Too bad about those damaged kids eh. I guess not your problem.

a reply to: JUhrman

No you are the one lost in your narrative.
You talk about the world and yet the world doesn't all utilize same vaccines.

Do you know how big Asia is.

They don't trust western vaccines, they produce their own for cheaper too

originally posted by: Aboveway
a reply to: JUhrman

No you are the one lost in your narrative.
You talk about the world and yet the world doesn't all utilize same vaccines.

Do you know how big Asia is.

They don't trust western vaccines, they produce their own for cheaper too

Have you googled "clostridia + autism"?

Because I'm telling you, this is the new conspiracy. They really don't want you to know this.

Vaccines causing autism is soooo 2000.

You really should update your sources dear.

a reply to: Aboveway

Yup you hit the nail on the head.

I think doctors and scientists are wrong because they are taught wrong and told wrong.

Then there's nothing left to discuss, because NOTHING provided, truthfull science or otherwise, will sway your opinion.

Apparently, you've done ALL the research required, with more than millions of scientists ( cause you'd have to disprove their information) and come to the conclusion that Vaccines=Autism.

I can't wait to read your paper.



~Tenth

a reply to: Aboveway


No, OP. He is not. His argument is perfectly sound, to be quite frank.

You're either trolling or you need to learn some manners and common sense. Sorry you would rather believe your fallacy-loaded argument than the perfectly legitimate sources that others have given, which should have shown you that--yay! there's nothing for you to worry about because you already have what you want! But please, by all means--keep digging yourself even deeper.

*le-sigh*

Do you read anything anyone's posted? Or only if it agrees with you?
Because if it's the latter then I think you're going to have a real hard time agreeing with anyone ever since your opinions aren't even based in fact--merely half-baked rhetoric.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Aboveway


I can't wait to read your paper.

~Tenth

^seconded. me neither.

a reply to: JUhrman

You do have the same prevalence in nations that use the same manufacturers. Put simply not all vaccines are made the same. An example would be a Merck MMR is not the same as a Russian or Indian or Chinese one. You need to remember, the autism rates are for western nations, not Russia, China, or other nations tha don't use American pharmaceuticals. That said autism rates have been proven to be lower in Russia. They actually did a study on that.

a reply to: rukia

Do you know what conviction means.

Right or wrong? I don't really care what army of Internet people thinks. I have real life experience.

originally posted by: camain
You do have the same prevalence in nations that use the same manufacturers.

Surely you have figures to support this claim...

a reply to: camain

That said autism rates have been proven to be lower in Russia. They actually did a study on that.

What he's trying to say is that those discrepancies, are more aligned with the over use of antibiotics, than what's in the vaccines.

Russians don't use antibiotics at nearly the same rate. He's making another point entirely.

~Tenth

a reply to: Aboveway

do you know what fallacy means?

Everyone has experiences. It's called being alive and living this thing called Life.

Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge others simply based on the fact that they disagree with you. By doing what you're doing you're severely limiting your ability to use your own brain. It's okay to be a little bit open minded--take a walk in someone else's shoes, you know what I mean?

You're very abrasive for someone who lacks understanding about the topic that you decided to argue about in the first place. At least understand it before putting down others who try to help you understand. Why do I say you don't get it? Because you don't get it. I don't understand how you don't understand what we are trying to say to you. It's fairly obvious that you don't even have a legitimate leg to stand on atm in this argument--what with your denial of *legitimate* sources in favor of your OPINION and "experiences"--which are also your OPINION. Because what YOU derive from your experience and what I derive from it are two different matters. I don't think you see yourself the way you truly are. All you sound like is someone running from constructive criticism in favor of yourself. Unfortunately for you, that means you're embracing ignorance--which is the exact opposite of what we advocate here on ATS. ATS is all about denying ignorance. Perhaps you should give it a try--it's fun--all the cool kids are doing it

originally posted by: Aboveway
a reply to: rukia

Do you know what conviction means.

Right or wrong? I don't really care what army of Internet people thinks. I have real life experience.

and yes! thank you for asking! I DO in fact know the definition of "conviction" quite intimately--seeing as I have a lot of it, myself.

and you know what, funny you asked since YOU UTTERLY LACK CONVICTION. BY YOUR OWN WORDS. YOU JUST PROVED THAT YOU LACK CONVICTION. Because: if you had any you wouldn't be on a forum asking for peoples' opinions when you don't care about them or want them in the first place. (point being, if you want us to give our opinions, but dont care if you yourself are right or wrong then what in the world are you trying to prove to yourself here? all you do is disagree with people who give you good info and legitimate sources or who disagree with your stance (which, you don't even really have a stance because the stance you have isn't even based in reality...but JUHrman has already touched on that as has tothetenthpower--i believe. and they're right.) I don't get your aversion. What's so bad about hearing "you need to do more research"???

oh, that's right, research is for random internet people. not you. because You have "real life experience".

riiiight.

I know I'm being a bit snarky now but...come on! Please.
Why are you on here at all? You already know everything. You need nobody to back up what you KNOW to be the 'truth'. So then--have some conviction why don'tcha? Go, be free!

I can't believe your real life experiences never taught you that you can be wrong sometimes and that it's okay to accept critique--since it only makes you better in the end. For having so much life experience, I'm surprised at your stubbornness to engage in a normal discourse. A discourse you began, mind. It's just so odd that I can't help but think you're just a troll.

not that i think you'll read this anyway.
i'm not holding my breath.

*washing my hands*

have a nice day, troll #1348573024875802347058237986t729857t08275t80w7r80y7r80t7e8097t3980457341980578ieuhrgkjdhgjldhgk;adhgjlabdf

peace.

EDIT: UNLESS, OP you aren't a troll and would like to help me--and others--understand you a bit better. If that's the case then I'm totally willing to listen and give you my 2 cents--but not if you're going to not even read a thing anyone's posted. I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from. So are other people, by the looks of it. You have to try, too. It's a 2 way street.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

What the original Post stated is true. A lot of anti vaxxers would be more open to vaccination if there wasn't all the crap in the vaccines.

Here's the reality yes there are people that oppose all vaccines and refuse to get them no matter what.

The majority of the anti vac movement though believes that.

1. We should have a right to sue for damages. Current USA law does not allow this, and it is up to a special court to decide if damages are warranted.

2. Would like free choice to decide what is best for there own child. It is not the responsibilities prerogative in the USA to dictate what you have to do. The USA was founded on individual freedom. You decide.

3. Would like the vaccine manufacturers to clean up their products. It's been listed over and over and over all the # in there that really doesn't need to be. Get rid of it.

4. Acknowledge that vaccines ARE NOT a cure all. 1.5% according to the FDA. Most anti vac believe that number is closer to 5-8%. Irregardless, not everyone's genetics are the same. People have peanut allergies, egg allergies, are lactose intolerant, allergic to bees etc. if people can be allergic to that, it only makes sense that people can be allergic to injection cow #, monkey brain, embalming fluid into their vein, especially at a young age.

5. Slow down the vaccine schedule. You don't need all this crap. My child doesn't need hpv, or hepatitis b, just in case the hospital screws up. Nor do they need a flu shot that does absolutely no good to the current flu virus. Stop pushing for it just in case.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Antibiotics destroy the biology of the digestive system which, has been shown to control 70% of maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

This is one reason why the western society has the higher autism rates. I agree with you, antibiotic use, the inability to break down the crap I. The vaccines do lead to increased autism rates. Further I agree with you that this is probably one environmental factor that impacts autism, among others.

Camain

a reply to: camain

1. We should have a right to sue for damages. Current USA law does not allow this, and it is up to a special court to decide if damages are warranted.

Sure. But if they willingly admit to a 1.5% reaction rate, and we know that all medication carries risks, I'm not sure that's valid enough to sue for damages. Perhaps the government should have a program for those this happens to, in order to make sure the child gets the necessary care, without having to pay millions of dollars.

A fund, paid for by the manufacturer's perhaps? There's a middle ground to be found.

2. Would like free choice to decide what is best for there own child. It is not the responsibilities prerogative in the USA to dictate what you have to do. The USA was founded on individual freedom. You decide.

I hate to say it, but a lot of people are too ignorant to know what's best. Especially as it relates to science in the United States.

It's AWESOME that we don't have polio or measles anymore. Really, really awesome. Some things, MUST be mandated for the safety of the general populous. Maybe not the MMR Vaccine if we are talking about that, but the basic stuff, not much can be found to argue against the benefits.

Seasonal Vaccines though, I agree 100%, stay the HELL away from me and my kids.

3. Would like the vaccine manufacturers to clean up their products. It's been listed over and over and over all the # in there that really doesn't need to be. Get rid of it.

I'd have to see the sources for this, a long with the substitute they suggest, peer reviewed and scientifically sound.

4. Acknowledge that vaccines ARE NOT a cure all. 1.5% according to the FDA. Most anti vac believe that number is closer to 5-8%. Irregardless, not everyone's genetics are the same. People have peanut allergies, egg allergies, are lactose intolerant, allergic to bees etc. if people can be allergic to that, it only makes sense that people can be allergic to injection cow #, monkey brain, embalming fluid into their vein, especially at a young age.

Yeah, which is 1.5%. They do admit that, openly. That's why they make vaccines every year for the cold, but also suggest a myriad of other things, like hand washing or other things, because those are the best way to prevent the spread of infection, not vaccines.

My child doesn't need hpv, or hepatitis b, just in case the hospital screws up.

I would agree with HPV and the common flue, no need for those vaccines, not enough supported science to prove they are worth the risk.

But stuff like Hepatitis, Polio, Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough or whatever else disease we've eradicated ( or greatly reduced the rate of infection) in the last 60 years, should remain eradicated.

I agree in general however. We need to demand more from our pharmaceutical industry in the form of transparency and truth and make sure the government is holding them accountable.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

AGREED. 100%.

It's good not to want to go overboard/to always try to ensure peoples' rights and well-being, and ofc people--even professionals--sometimes make mistakes--but vaccinations are wonderful things in the way that they've eradicated so many once-deadly diseases. Truly a modern miracle.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

What if it was you or your kid that was one of the one and a half percent. What if your kid had a severe reaction to vaccines, would you keep giving the vaccines to him/her? The thing is that public opinion has been steered into thinking that these cases are rare when in fact they are not. Vaccines are designed to trigger a response of the immune system utilizing adjuvants. This can cause a cytokine storm for some people.

I would say that people should try a vaccine on their kids and observe the side effects but for most part people are not very observant and think that it is not caused by the shot they just had their kid have because their kids can't be part of that one and a half percent...their kids are not defective. The fact that a person reacts to a vaccine does not make them defective, all it means is they react negatively to the vaccine.

I will warn you people, if you have reactions to medicines, even if they are not listed on the pamphlets, tell your doctor and make sure to research it a little. I wasn't sure if it was a class of medicines, and I had bad side effects that were not listed on the pamphlets till a year later because they were newer medicines. I see people all the time saying that they know it is a side effect but they do not understand that there are other meds out there that may be better. They take the meds even though they are slowly making them sick. Sometimes it takes a month or two for side effects to show up, it takes that long for the body to lose it's ability to compensate. Sorry for this off topic paragraph, but I am tired of seeing friends suffer when I know they do not have to. There are other medicines and lifestyle changes can also take care of some of the problems.

a reply to: camain

no, the original poster was not correct. tenth was. there will always be side-effects to man made drugs. what the OP wants already exists.

Despite that, the OP still wants to see an issue. Camain, I do agree you have a point and I also think that generally more care has to be made--tothetenthpower already answered you very well imo. The reason why the OP is incorrect is due to the incorrectness of his/her claim and the fallacies that the OP has asserted after the fact:

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Aboveway

You never spent even 5 minutes with an autistic disabled child or person, you might not see it as a win.

That's ridiculous.

There will ALWAYS be side effects to man made drugs.

Always.

1.5% is NOTHING.

~Tenth

a reply to: rickymouse

that's a fantastic point, rickymouse. which is why yeah you're right--bad things really do happen and it's awful when they do and we should do EVERYTHING we can to make sure we do better and don't make those mistakes again but...eradicating a ton of diseases that would have been deadly before vaccines is pretty darn cool. For the 'greater good' and all of that. Though I do agree with your point. I just don't know how to address it considering how I feel already about vaccines. I guess I'd say I'd feel a whole lot differently if I or my imaginary kid that I don't have (yet) were to be affected terribly as you detailed.