Saudi Arabia to buy off the shelf nukes from Pakistan

If true.



Marvelous absolutely #ing marvelous can the world to get any more screwed up?

originally posted by: Kukri
nypost.com...

The Saudi's bought and paid for the Pakistani nuclear Program in exchange for Sunni beliefs and religious support and probably one or two of their nukes so I imagine they already have some tucked away.

Exactly what I was going to say, so ... what ^ he said.

My hope is that we and the rest of the international community convince them otherwise (but my fear is this is all planned), because if Saudi does get them, I am sure the deal with Iran is in severe jeopardy, and, in the what I believe less probable case they do have weaponization desires, they are all the more likely to now, ten fold.

Don't be surprised if nukes start going off in Iran. This could be very bad.

I wouldn't be shocked if they already had them. They're just making it public now, saying they plan on acquiring them, so when they are used it's not a shock.

Whether they came from Pakistan, the US, or, heck, even Israel, remains to be seen. After all, they all share the same common "enemy" of Iran.

Pakistan was allowed to develop nukes because if the USA tried to stop them, they would have cut off the "easy way" access to Afghanistan that most of the US equipment took into the country.

They were also harboring Bin Laden.

They took their nuke technology and sold it to North Korea.

Now they're giving it to the people who paid the bill.

USA will likely defend Saudi Arabia getting nukes by saying that they are a friend to the USA and need to be able to defend themselves against ISIS.

a reply to: babybunnies

Pakistan began developing nuclear weapons in the 70s. They had theoretically operational devices by the mid-80s. Their first test was in the late 90s. All before September 11, 2001, Al Qaida becoming a thing, and the hunt for Osama bin Laden.

An off the peg nuclear missile is an oxymoron. You can't just buy a frickin nuke people. You need the specialists to go with it and also the delivery systems you want to attach it to, not all of those are just plug and play, ya know? sheesh

originally posted by: Jonjonj
An off the peg nuclear missile is an oxymoron. You can't just buy a frickin nuke people. You need the specialists to go with it and also the delivery systems you want to attach it to, not all of those are just plug and play, ya know? sheesh

Most physisit's can build a nuke they aren't really that complicated. What's hard is getting the raw materials. So in a way they are plug and play as long as you have a good supplier.

a reply to: Jonjonj

I have no doubt that Saudi Arabia has the specialists (the scientists, engineers, military trained, etc...) for handling nuclear weapons. It's a fairly known fact that, even as far back as the 70s, many Pakistani nuclear scientists were educated in Saudi Arabia.

As far as delivery systems go? Well, the Royal Saudi Strategic Missile Force has an unknown number of Chinese supplied DF-3 and possibly also DF-21 missiles. These theater range ballistic missiles have allegedly been modified to disallow nuclear weapons on them, but I'm sure that could easily be overcome or worked around.

These are more than likely based at four or five bases around the country. The newest, thought to be less than five years old, is the Al-Watah ballistic missile base. It's positioning puts it within range of both Israel and Iran.

I'm suspicious of this story because of the timing, but I'll play along. I suspected something like this could happen once I saw the info from the 1st draft of the Iranian nuclear deal. If true, it looks like Israel, the Saudis, and the GCC may have achieved checkmate. Think about it.

Iran has agreed to ridiculously stringent limits on their nuclear power facilities & programs. They will be regularly audited and every step in the process will be constantly monitored for compliance. But neither Israel nor the GCC countries face these limitations or conditions. There is no international pressure for these nations to face the same limitations on nuclear energy or nuclear weapons programs either. The US wont even entertain the option of forcing inspections on any of these countries, particularly Israel.

The attempts to get the UN to declare the Middle East a "nuclear free zone" have been constantly rebuffed or delayed. So what's the next step? What country's going to make the same argument against Israel & the GCC that they made against Iran? When will they have to agree to similar restrictions? And what happens when they do the same things they've claimed Iran was trying to do? Nothing! Israel supposedly already has hundreds of nukes & no one's forcing them to get rid of them or face sanctions. And as long as the GCC supports the petrodollar, I don't see the US allowing anyone else to pressure GCC nations to undergo inspections either.

However, as a compromise, I could definitely see the US making a deal similar to what we do with some of our NATO allies. They allow us to have nuclear weapons on our bases in their territory. That way, the US could "reduce the chance of nukes falling in the wrong hands", while the GCC nations would still have direct access to nuclear weapons. But allowing the different competing factions & power brokers in Saudi Arabia & Qatar to have direct access to nuclear weapons would be a catastrophe. I'm not a betting man, but I were, I'd at least bet that Prince "Bandar Bush" would be responsible for at least some dirty bomb false flag attacks. And he's not even the most radical of the Saudi power brokers.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

It's actually a fairly old story, going back as far as the late 90s. Unfortunately, the only article I could find that old was a Wikipedia reference, one which you need to pay to view. However, I did find an article which states,

When Pakistan seemed to dither after India tested five nuclear bombs in May 1998, the Saudi government pledged to give it 50,000 barrels of oil a day for free. Pakistan soon tested six of its own bombs...

The Saudi government has taken the quid pro quo to imply certain nuclear benefits as well, including, if need be, the delivery at short notice of some of the nuclear weapons it has helped pay for.

NY Times

I'll do some better digging when I'm not in my phone. I'm sure I can find an older article.

Okay, I found some more reliable sources since my last post.

This article, from Global Focus, dated August 15, 2001, has a different spin on things. It suggests that China may be willing to sell nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia in a crisis.

In the late 1980s, China sold thirty-six CSS-2 IRBMs to Saudi Arabia... But without nuclear warheads these missiles have little value. Woodward suggests the possibility that China might be willing to provide nuclear warheads in a crisis.

Global Focus -Weapons of Mass Destruction

This article, which was in the spring-summer 1999 issue of The Nonproliferation Review states,

Various reports of the nuclear arming of Saudi Arabia by Iraq and China remain of dubious credibility, although Saudi financial support of the Pakistani nuclear weapons program may reflect a belief that conventional weapons are inadequate. Moreover, the fact that Saudi Arabia has not signed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty may further indicate a desire to keep its options open.

The article continues to say,

In 1991, it was alleged that several years earlier Saudi Arabia had developed a nuclear program of its own but that this program was abandoned after US pressure. Other reports suggest that China may have supplied nuclear arms to Saudi Arabia, and that the Saudis financially supported the Iraqi nuclear effort in addition to the Pakistani one.19 None of these reports has been confirmed.

Does Saudi Arabia Have or Seek Chemical or Biological Weapons?

And a third, from February 1, 2001, adds,

Saudi Arabia (Sunni) and Iran (Shia) compete for influence in the Arab region, and a nuclear Iran will be viewed as a threat to Saudi Arabia, which may then try to enter the nuclear club also. Although Saudi Arabia does not have a strong national technological base, it does have close ties to Pakistan which might help it to obtain the bomb.

Professor Michael I. Sobel, CUNY Department of Physics - Nuclear Proliferation

originally posted by: cmdrkeenkid
Okay, I found some more reliable sources since my last post.

This article, from Global Focus, dated August 15, 2001, has a different spin on things. It suggests that China may be willing to sell nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia in a crisis.

In the late 1980s, China sold thirty-six CSS-2 IRBMs to Saudi Arabia... But without nuclear warheads these missiles have little value. Woodward suggests the possibility that China might be willing to provide nuclear warheads in a crisis.

Global Focus -Weapons of Mass Destruction

This article, which was in the spring-summer 1999 issue of The Nonproliferation Review states,

Various reports of the nuclear arming of Saudi Arabia by Iraq and China remain of dubious credibility, although Saudi financial support of the Pakistani nuclear weapons program may reflect a belief that conventional weapons are inadequate. Moreover, the fact that Saudi Arabia has not signed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty may further indicate a desire to keep its options open.

The article continues to say,

In 1991, it was alleged that several years earlier Saudi Arabia had developed a nuclear program of its own but that this program was abandoned after US pressure. Other reports suggest that China may have supplied nuclear arms to Saudi Arabia, and that the Saudis financially supported the Iraqi nuclear effort in addition to the Pakistani one.19 None of these reports has been confirmed.

Does Saudi Arabia Have or Seek Chemical or Biological Weapons?

And a third, from February 1, 2001, adds,

Saudi Arabia (Sunni) and Iran (Shia) compete for influence in the Arab region, and a nuclear Iran will be viewed as a threat to Saudi Arabia, which may then try to enter the nuclear club also. Although Saudi Arabia does not have a strong national technological base, it does have close ties to Pakistan which might help it to obtain the bomb.

Professor Michael I. Sobel, CUNY Department of Physics - Nuclear Proliferation

Sorry, I meant I was suspicious of Saudi Arabia actually making the decision to buy the nukes now. I know they were involved in Pakistan's program. But I find it suspicious that they're choosing now since the Iran nuclear deal still hasn't been finalized yet. It seems like a desperate move to get Iran to abandon the nuclear talks, which would keep the sanctions going against them.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

It could be that, which is entirely plausible and worked in the past. Gave them leverage over both Iran and the US in one manner or another.

Could be they just don't trust Iran to follow through on the deal. I've had my suspicions that they're a lot closer than everyone is let on, and keep pushing it back and back in hopes to do a test before they have to sign anything. Once they have nuclear weapons, it's a whole new ball game.

originally posted by: cmdrkeenkid
a reply to: enlightenedservant

It could be that, which is entirely plausible and worked in the past. Gave them leverage over both Iran and the US in one manner or another.

Could be they just don't trust Iran to follow through on the deal. I've had my suspicions that they're a lot closer than everyone is let on, and keep pushing it back and back in hopes to do a test before they have to sign anything. Once they have nuclear weapons, it's a whole new ball game.

But Iran's Supreme Leader has stated numerous times that nuclear weapons are against their interpretation of Islam & has forbidden them. And have any Iranian officials ever said they wanted nuclear weapons in the first place? I'm asking this because everyone's propaganda about Iran wanting nukes always comes from sources outside of Iran & Iran's enemies. It would be like Iceland claiming Belize wants to build a weaponized stargate on the moon & getting massive sanctions placed against Belize, even though no official from Belize has even mentioned such a thing.

Also, Iran's actually signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty which allows them to develop nuclear energy. Yet Iran's nuclear power plants are also being drastically restricted, which has nothing to do with the supposed nuclear weapon threat. This is why it seems more like a ploy to me. Because the GCC nations & Israel just want to keep Iran weakened by the sanctions & possible military attacks. But once the nuclear deal is signed, Iran will be free to export its oil & natural gas back to its previous levels, which will only strengthen its economy again.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: DuckforcoveR

I'd put the new cold war in his lap.

And a whole lot of other #......

It is the US that winked and grinned when Pak was building its nukes. Now US is worried in its panties that these nukes might be sold in the black market by Pak which is a bankrupt nation with chaotic political environment.

What a horror story that would be with both Iran and Saudi armed with nukes and throwing continuous verbal fires at each other, just few steps from a full blown war.

What an extreme danger that would be for Israel. God forbid if these nukes fall into the hands of fanatic organizations.

Where will be the safest place to live? Canadian Northern territories?

Guess US foreign policy is reaping the bitter fruits of nuclear evilness that it sowed few decades ago.

a reply to: khnum

So it's fine for a terrorist sponsoring, warmongering, non-democratic Saudi getting hold of nuclear missiles, but whisper anything at all about Iran developing nuclear energy and TSHTF...I couldn't imagine a more staggeringly obvious hypocritical situation.

Wonderful!
So we'll have these little countries in the Mideast (God’s Holy lands) squeezed together like sardines armed to the teeth with nuclear bombs!

Isn’t that wonderful!

Armageddon on the rocks

What a wonderful world we live in!

Maybe all the devout religious seekers can make a pilgrimage to the atomic bombs over there when they go pay homage to their God.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: khnum

So it's fine for a terrorist sponsoring, warmongering, non-democratic Saudi getting hold of nuclear missiles, but whisper anything at all about Iran developing nuclear energy and TSHTF...I couldn't imagine a more staggeringly obvious hypocritical situation.

Your under the false assumption they want the Saudis to have nukes they dont. So nit hypocritical at all. Just funny other nations think they have the power to stop nuclear proliferation to be honest I'm surprised it's worked as well as it had.