Gun control

Uh, Hitler believed in gun control. Any one else need explaining?

Anyways, places with guns banned have more crime than where it is illegal not to own one past age 18 if male. Option if female. Switzerland I think, I thought Austria(stupid Readers Digest), but TC set me straight on that awhile ago. Guess who has lowest crime rate? Switzerland! Most guns, less crime.

Or Florida, if you a native and driving, are safe. Why? Legal to carry concealed weapons. If have a license plate from out of town, you a target, why? Because you don't have the right to carry concealed weapons, so don't have them. To fix this Florida gives out special licenses to people visiting and all that. Or places that have no guns allowed. Guess what? They robbed more often than a place they are allowed.(in Flordia some places have those signs since it is legal to carry them)

You can have my gun after you have several bullet wounds b*t(h! Forget from my cold dead hands, I won't be cause I have a gun and you don't!!!!

A few truths about owning firearms.

"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That�s ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?"

"You can say �stop� or �alto� or use any other word you think will work, but I�ve found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone�s head is pretty much the universal language."

"You cannot save the planet. You may be able to save yourself and your family."

Clint Smith, Director, Thunder Ranch

Like I said - It suits you guys in North America. That's the way you chose to live. For your society it works.
But for mine it doesn't.

As for Hitler and the statistics, you can cram them. They mean exactly nothing.

You can debate your gun laws all day but when you drag my country into it and start telling me we're wrong because we don't keep firearms, I'm gonna disagree with you all the way down the line.

Just curious Leveller,on the off chance someone comes into your house with a gun how do you plan on protecting yourself?My guess is throwing teacups at him won't work to well.

The difference between you and me is that no-one will come into my house with a gun in the first place.

Originally posted by Leveller
The difference between you and me is that no-one will come into my house with a gun in the first place.

My girlfriend and I several years ago had unwelcome house guests very late one night. They were very interested in gang raping my girlfriend, and didnt know I was home.

Fortunately, I had a friend with me, John Moses Browning (in the form of a Colt 1911A1 Government Model .45).

All four of these men were unarmed, but one person cannot defend themselves against 4 opponents. I feel very sure that had I not been armed that night, I would likely have ended up dead, any my girlfriend raped and severly injured if not killed.

That kinda settled the issue for me.

Originally posted by Leveller
The difference between you and me is that no-one will come into my house with a gun in the first place.

So what happens if a 6'6" 250 pound guy high on angel dust shows up at your door with a Louisville Slugger, or a fire ax?

It doesn't really matter..there will always be a crap load of people who own guns that are not licensed or registered. I know many myself So let them take away our guns, people are smarter then this and knew there would soon come a day when we might have to fork then over, so there ya go..

And yes in Florida it is very easy to own a gun, if I remember correctly it took me 48 hours to legally own a gun I bought in a pawn shop there. And I've also had a gun pointed at me by some idiot who I know didn't own it legally.

So my point is..it doesn't matter, people will have guns no matter what the law says and states.
Magestica

Originally posted by dragonrider

Originally posted by Leveller
The difference between you and me is that no-one will come into my house with a gun in the first place.

So what happens if a 6'6" 250 pound guy high on angel dust shows up at your door with a Louisville Slugger, or a fire ax?

Dude. That just doesn't happen here.
In my town of 16,000 people there has been one murder in 20 years. That was committed with a knife during a domestic argument.

In the thousand years and more that my town has existed there has never been an incident of gun crime.

People just don't carry weapons here. You got a problem with somebody you go at them with your fists.

The statistics that you see for weapons here are misleading. They don't take into account the British outlook on firearms in civilian hands.

If someone is even seen with a weapon or even thought to carry one the police are called. Everybody literally reaches for their mobile phone. This is then added to the database as a guncrime incident and helps to jack up the statistic figure. Even though 99 times out of 100 the only crime was carrying the weapon in the first place.

That's the way it works with knives anyway. Somebody's got a knife and it's made public and that dude is on his way to jail.
Guns would bring on the same result, I think.

I say I think, because there has never been an example of anyone carrying a gun here before.

Originally posted by dragonrider
but one person cannot defend themselves against 4 opponents.

Don't take this as bragging, but not true. One person can defend themselves against multiple opponents if taught how to do so. I can fend off and fight ten people at once, and have won doing so. Of course I have studied Akido, Bushido, Jujutsu and was a State wrestler. In the celtic culture a single warrior of the fianna would not back away from any fight, no matter the numbers. So it depends on the individual, and their ability in combat, armed or not. Remember fight to live, and you will never lose.

Don't think it will never happen.Nobody wakes up in the morning thinking somebody is going to break into your house.But it is a very real possiblity.
Like I said earlier,its a choice.If you don't want a gun that is fine with me.

Originally posted by nyeff
Don't think it will never happen.Nobody wakes up in the morning thinking somebody is going to break into your house.But it is a very real possiblity.
Like I said earlier,its a choice.If you don't want a gun that is fine with me.

Dude. I understand what you're saying. But the truth is that my society is so different to yours in the respect of firearms.
Guns just aren't part of our makeup. If a guy gets into an argument he never has to worry that his opponent will pull a gun on him. You're more likely to get struck by lightning or win the lottery than get shot here.
Yeah, it's maybe happened a few times somewhere else in the country, but the risk to myself is so negligable as to make keeping a gun totally redundant idea. I'm more likely to harm myself with it (even if I'm highly trained) than to ever need to use it in my defence.
I run across somebody with a gun and I look upon it as fate. It's so unlikely to happen, that if it does, my number has probably been called anyway.

Yeah it would be wierd for me not to own a gun.But despite what you may read about America it is not quite as bad as it seems.I live in a town with about 40,000 people.There are about 2 or 3 murders a year.Either guns or stabbings.I think that is a pretty good ratio.But the only murder I'am aware of in my town last year happened right down the street from me.And I live in a good neighborhood.So it can happen any where.
Glad you understood that I wasn't trying to fight with you.

Dude. That just doesn't happen here Posted by Leveller

If that is true, all I can say is you are lucky, and I wish you the best of luck in your perfect world.

I have had more than a few bad experiences in interpersonal relations, I guess you could say. I was almost lynched when I was 16 by 3 KKK junior members. They werent armed either, at least not with guns (all of them had buck knives though). I almost died that day.

I have spent close to $5000 (likely a lot more) at Thunder Ranch learning how to make sure that I am able to defend myself and my family. This is not heroism, but a realization that if bad things come down the road, the police WILL NOT be there to take care of us. When bad things happen, the only one you can count on to keep you alive is you.

At least in my world, there are many wolves who prey on the sheep. Sheep have to have a way to bite back.

There is a reason that the original Colt Single Action Army .45 was called the "Equalizer". It made a small woman the equal to a large agressor.

"God made all men and Sam Colt made them equal". That is very true.

You don't have to justify your gun culture to me.
I understand perfectly well why you guys see the need to carry them.
And the honest truth is, that if I lived in the US, I would probably own one too.
You have the right to bear arms so you use it. It's legal and as has already been said, if you take care, you can live perfectly happily with your weapon of choice.




As for being a "perfect world", I'm not sure if I detected a note of sarcasm there!!!
I don't claim my country to be perfect. We still have our fair share of violent crime. Innocent people still get hurt. But it's just not as necessary to buy a gun to defend yourself here.
The day I have to buy a gun to defend myself from my fellow countrymen will be the day I stop calling this country "mine".

[Edited on 6-6-2003 by Leveller]

Leveller, I do respect your ideals. I just would like to ask you to read something if you have the time. I have posted this link elsewhere but I'll put it here again for your education.

In the final decades of the19th Century, Great Britain was much like the United States in the 1950s. There were almost no gun laws and almost no gun crime. The homicide rate per 100,000 population per year was between 1.0 and 1.5, declining as the century wore on.

www.nraila.org...

[Edited on 6-6-2003 by Fry2]

Having someone come into your home that shouldn't be there/not invited isnt a nice thing to happen to you!

my home was broken into twice, the first time we was all in bed asleep, apart from my son at the time, who saw the burglar, and still doesnt turn all his bedroom lights off, even after 7 yrs.

the second time myself, partner and son were in the livingroom, in broad-day-light. when I saw a shadow walk past my glass living room door, instead of telling my partner, I just got up and walked out, to be confronted by (another drug-addict, that was living in my area) with a nice looking rife, pointing right out me. The next thing I know, my son is walking out the livingroom door to be confronted with this prat and his gun.

I didnt even think twice, not alone once, and went for the gun, my son means more to me than anything and anybody, and would do anything to protect him. Thankfully the gun didnt go off (found out later, it wasnt loaded, although still could have been) and he belted me round the head with it. The next thing I remember was waking up in hospital with a splitting headache and my son laid across me fast asleep.

He wasnt caught by the police, even if they had, nothing would have happen, smack on the hand and a fine, like the rest of them!

But he was dealt with in time!

The thought of starring down the barrel of a gun isnt appealing to me, and thankfully we have now moved within the last 2 wks.

There's noway I would want to go through that again, but to protect my son I'd do anything, even die for him!

I dont think just doing a back-ground check is really enough, we had a bloke over here a few years ago, that went on the rampage in "Hungerford", killing and hurting people at random for no real reason. When he was finally caught, he was just another "normal" guy! His neighbours said that he was quiet and very shy, well they say the quiet ones can be worse!

Then there was the children in a playground, it was an infants schoold, where the children were just playing in the playground, sadly 7 - 10 were killed plus a teacher as well! They said he was a "normal" bloke going to work and #, then just cracked!

where does it stop?


You could have a "normal" back ground" fine up-bringing etc etc, and then crack!

I'm all for people protecting their homes etc and looking after their own, totally agree with that. It doesnt matter what the law is, your always going to get people who just dont give a fig, about you and anyone else!



blackwidow

Sounds like a nightmare, blackwidow666.

My and my friends were robbed at gun point when I was about 16. Not pleasant. I never blamed the 'gun' though - always the people that robbed us which were luckily caught and sent to the klink. I doubt that person who robbed us bought his gun at a gun store, going through a background check, etc. I doubt any do.

Leveller what's your problem with people in the UK being allowed to bear arms? Weapons control in your area dates back to medieval times when Scots/Irishmen weren't allowed to carry weapons unless in the armed forces, so that they couldn't uprise against the tyrannical monarchy. There are the origins of your gun control. You people even banned the kilt/tartan and bagpipes to decrease the morale of Scots and Irishmen! All done by the English monarchy. I'm not trying to say YOU should have a gun, like you would be forced to do if you lived in Switzerland, I'm saying people in the UK should be allowed to own an uncontrolled gun if they want too. It's nobody's business except for there's if they have a gun- stop interfering with others' lives. If someone's innocent of all violent crimes, then they can have all of the essential liberties they want. They're innocent until proven guilty, so I don't like the argument that gun control prevents murders, since it disregards habeas corpus. An innocent person with a gun is as harmless as an innocent person with a toaster oven. Want to take the peoples' right to own a toaster oven away from them too? And even if gun control were to lower violent crime, innocent people would suffer the same penalty as a criminal would. Why punish an innocent person for a criminal's intent? The monarchy still oppresses Ireland, after 1200 years of occupation. They can't defend themselves against the monarchs because you won't let them have firearms (not to say they can't get them, it's just that they're not actually criminals so they might be less inclined to buy an "illegal" firearm). I know this has no value for a debate and might discredit me, but: Loyalists suck, republicans rule.

Very good point Militia, nice history lesson there. It's unfortunetly true also.