The collapse of empires

a reply to: Krazysh0t

"What's really the point of those morals anyways?"

Why don't we discard morals altogether? I'm not going to argue the point of any morals, unless they are given in context of the society that supports them, there is no point to do so.

"The origin of morals is only important for historic reasons."

Are these historic reasons important? You have said their origins are not important. Why do you even propose a History Forum then? Also, social cohesion may end up being an evolutionary dead end, only time will tell.

I won't bother you further as you are as set in your opinions as I'm I. Have a good day inside your box.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I see nothing wrong with studying something's history to see where it came from, but there is something wrong with basing the direction it is going off of by trying to pigeonhole as only belonging to its source. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

So if you were to say that you are studying morality to see how it started and evolved from there, fine. But if you want to learn the history of morality so that you can try to keep it within the domain of Christianity, then we have a problem.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This shouldn't have anything to do with Christianity although I see your disgust with the churches as do many. It's more about common public morals and respect. We know what they are, they teach you at your diversity training at work. Things like, don't be racist, don't sexually assault people, don't abuse children, don't have sex with your mother, don't bang your friends girlfriend. Basic stuff that you know you shouldn't do. This stuff decayed at some intrevals in past history, will it again? That's my point. History often repeats itself. Will these signs be evident as the collapse of this western society nears and we move on to the next concurred system?

a reply to: TheCretinHop

Because you are discussing our western culture and current society Cretin, then it is clear to me that the origin of the "common public" morals are mostly from Christian doctrine. Because Krazyshot doesn't want to give an credit to any religious system and believes that our western morals spring from our instinct as social animals, then he would agree with you that your post has nothing to do with Christianity. If this is true, then Christian morality, as with any moral codes, have evolved from our instinct as social animals, something Krazyshot seems to have omitted in his arguments. That's no big deal to me, but IMO, Christian morals are directly related to our western culture, and any decay of our western culture is related to a rejection of Christian beliefs and a turn toward scientific rationalism combined with other cultural influences.

Scientific rationalism is comparatively new to our culture and is having an effect on our moral perception, one of which, IMO, is contributing to the decay of our western culture, good, bad or indifferent. I'm not making a judgement for or against religion (or science) for what is best regarding moral behavior, just pointing out that these things should be considered in your discussion.

If our culture is giving way to a new way of thinking, that would contribute to it's eventual down fall and change over to a different culture. That's basically all I've been trying to say, but Krazyshot seems to be taking aim at religion and dismiss it's part in how our moral codes have developed in our culture. He seems to have an agenda against religion, particularly Christian religion. That gives him a dismissive and narrow minded view regarding the moral issue in our culture's apparent decay.

originally posted by: TheCretinHop
Have you ever noticed when an empirical society pursues a nihilistic community it fails shortly after? Rome, Greece, etc...

originally posted by: xuenchen
Yes, I have noticed that.

..."when an empirical society pursues a nihilistic community it fails shortly after? Rome, Greece..."

my best guess is that the OP intended the obvious thought meme... the USA (empirical society) is collapsing on several fronts (socially/financially/economically/governance...
as the Western world led by the USA made war against both Iraq and radical Muslims & Islam in general

why does this observation fail in so many other cases?
many past empires never confronted a nihilistic community or government but eventually declined anyways
however...empires tend to consume Itself, in moral decay, hedonism, loss of legal restraining

the London-NYC north atlantic money-changer empire was born from the destruction of a German-NAZI regime (which might well be considered 'nihilistic')

Empires collapse either because they overextend themselves, like the Romans and the Mongols, or everyone gangs up on them like Nazi Germany or the Ottoman empire.

a reply to: St Udio
Yes I did mean that thanks for helping clarify!!

a reply to: CB328

Good point. I wonder if that's destined for USA too...?