Simple reason science and religion are incompatible...

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: SuperFrog

so religious people can't mingle science and religion without it being an attempt to salvage their religion? for a believer in "science" he sure thinks very narrow minded

well that certainly struck me as a well-thought-out and detailed argument making judicious use of supporting evidence and peer reviewed studies with conclusions published in prestigious journals around the world.

...oh wait, this isnt science. silly me.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: SuperFrog

so religious people can't mingle science and religion without it being an attempt to salvage their religion? for a believer in "science" he sure thinks very narrow minded

It's best not to do that since religion relies on faith and doing so in science creates confirmation bias. Though if you suspend belief in your religion and through honest experimentation come to similar conclusions that religion does, that is a different story. But science has to arrive at the religion conclusion on its own; you can't start off assuming it is true.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: swanne
Appeal to authority fallacy. Just because scientists of the past held those beliefs doesn't make them correct.

Who is the ultimate authority? God allowing scientists to explore its domain or scientists attempting to describe IT. You are a human; you are of the birthright of a Creator Being. Are you attempting to usurp the Creator/outsmart it by telling it WHAT IT IS, or what you ARE NOT? What is your program here; "I exist therefor God creator does not (as am self created by accidental evolution)". I am *maybe* a Godlike production and cannot prove God exists but think UPON a FAITH basis be a truth I EXIST and cannot adequately explain WHY.

There is no ultimate authority. Everyone is susceptible to lying or holding incorrect beliefs because no one has the complete picture. If such a thing exists, we haven't found it. You can get mad all you want for "usurping the Creator" or whatever, but until you can demonstrate that such a thing exists, there is no reason for me to even worry about it.

Faith isn't good enough for belief. I need actual testable evidence. Faith is a complete guess. Humans are terrible guessers so I doubt anything based on "faith".

So you are in complete agreement with me.

thank you all, for the replies.

Meditation is not miraculous by itself but the result of it can be for the aspirant. It is only a way to soften the mind and gets you off useless fears or doubts which we all have. So it can help overcome any difficulties which we may have in mind. Like fear of death, loneliness, other opinions, desires, etc...it is just a tool, how or why you use it, it is up to you.
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Vampires are not a subject of mine mind and I don't bother with them. If an evil vampire comes into my life I will consider doing what you said But I will not say they do not exists because I am not a knower of whole wide world. Like you seems to be.
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To think that creator wants or cares about our worship on one side and on the other it let us destroy the planet with all living beings does not compute. We all have free will and it is on us how we manifest it, for good or bad cause. Like science or religion.

we are all a product of our experiences by doing something. What is that something is up to you. Conflicts arises when someone is limiting his views on somebody else with different experiences which is what this topic is about in a way. When we will learn to let go of differences we will get the answers.
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the process in science is important and it has the same value as result. But how did he get to this idea, I do not care. A person can have an insight by walking in the forest or meditating or some dream or studying, observing something. If it bothers anyone then this says a lot more about the one who is bothered then the other one who produced something.

originally posted by: UniFinity
thank you all, for the replies.

Thank you for being honest in your replies...

originally posted by: UniFinity
Meditation is not miraculous by itself but the result of it can be for the aspirant. It is only a way to soften the mind and gets you off useless fears or doubts which we all have. So it can help overcome any difficulties which we may have in mind. Like fear of death, loneliness, other opinions, desires, etc...it is just a tool, how or why you use it, it is up to you.

Even I was in contact with one of meditation teachers, never got into it, not at least the way they did. Brain is just like any other part of your body, needs exercise. but also needs quiet time to recover. Meditation can be used in that function, but pretending that is something it is not is where it crosses from spiritual into scam. (For example someone telling they can float / elevate etc...) As Dr. Tyson once said, sure, just after you eat enough beans to create strong enough force to push you up.

originally posted by: UniFinity
Vampires are not a subject of mine mind and I don't bother with them. If an evil vampire comes into my life I will consider doing what you said

But I will not say they do not exists because I am not a knower of whole wide world. Like you seems to be.

Not sure where vampires part comes from. Don't remember anyone of us mentioning it.

originally posted by: UniFinity
To think that creator wants or cares about our worship on one side and on the other it let us destroy the planet with all living beings does not compute. We all have free will and it is on us how we manifest it, for good or bad cause. Like science or religion.

Point of my post was just that it does not make a sense. It is not free will if you were born in Africa to poor parents that are unable to provide basic needs for you. Now point that late George Carlin made was that free will and god's divine plan don't work well together.

originally posted by: UniFinity
we are all a product of our experiences by doing something. What is that something is up to you. Conflicts arises when someone is limiting his views on somebody else with different experiences which is what this topic is about in a way. When we will learn to let go of differences we will get the answers.

Bunch of meaningless psychology if you take my example of being born in wrong place.

originally posted by: UniFinity
the process in science is important and it has the same value as result. But how did he get to this idea, I do not care. A person can have an insight by walking in the forest or meditating or some dream or studying, observing something. If it bothers anyone then this says a lot more about the one who is bothered then the other one who produced something.

If they can provide evidence for what they are telling and if is testable, sure, apple falling on your head or if you dreamed your hypothesis, until proven correct is just that - hypothesis.

Take for example Giordano Bruno, who dreamed universe and by pure accident got it right, but that did not help him much, did it?

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: UniFinity

originally posted by: UniFinity
we are all a product of our experiences by doing something. What is that something is up to you. Conflicts arises when someone is limiting his views on somebody else with different experiences which is what this topic is about in a way. When we will learn to let go of differences we will get the answers.

Bunch of meaningless psychology if you take my example of being born in wrong place.

How does that happen if YOU negotiated a BODY to inhabit; as an immaterial soul/spirit [prior to incarnation] chose that EXACT time place (those two parental DNA donors) in the first place? You are on the hook for whatever went wrong/right.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

And what evidence do you have about supposed 'negotiation' and major question - do you think you are someone else, as nobody seems to remember that previous life and/or negotiation, except few on some major drugs...

originally posted by: SuperFrog
a reply to: vethumanbeing

And what evidence do you have about supposed 'negotiation' and major question - do you think you are someone else, as nobody seems to remember that previous life and/or negotiation, except few on some major drugs...

Peyote, Terrence McKenna shamans..I don't know. I have no evidence that is drug related regarding an 'altered awareness'. I just study is all. I am not someone else, I am just my soul progression through lifetimes (actually not true; others). I am a first timer human that has studied others. No one seems to remember their past life or even the reason for being here. That is the primary aspect/goal (its crazy you cannot grasp this yet; as is the prime objective for ones life existing on earth); to know a minor God, a creator or at least the Universe that actually is in charge of this. Getting to know your higher beingness (past selves) that have lived here; no one pursues this because it is not taught how to do so; for a reason (not meant to be easy). Your sublime/supreme test is to finally understand/know why you exist in human form. You are not an accident of evolution.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
You are not an accident of evolution.

This is basic misunderstanding of evolution - evolution is not about accidents, but about the way life changes, evolves and adjusts.... so no, none of us are accidents, but we are product o certain rules described by evolution.

I am watching cosmos again, this time with my 10 year old kid, and second episode covers examples of evolution and changes that benefit the kind, and made them survive in different settings. Please watch that, it is worth watching.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

vhb:You are not an accident of evolution.

SuperFrog: This is basic misunderstanding of evolution - evolution is not about accidents, but about the way life changes, evolves and adjusts.... so no, none of us are accidents, but we are product of certain rules described by evolution.
I am watching cosmos again, this time with my 10 year old kid, and second episode covers examples of evolution and changes that benefit the kind, and made them survive in different settings. Please watch that, it is worth watching.

Rules are this: you die if your ecosystem fails your specie (no accidents). Is there not some way to circumvent this or outsmart it? I am of the belief that the Universe is regards itself as a progenitor; that said, IT wants to succeed in growth (OF ITSELF in selfishnish). It makes no sense that the Universe would outsmart itself into a false idea of self destruction; just for fun, as can do it. Benefit is key; the Universe wants to grow and understand itself by its creations (those that can explain itself to itself); human beings are the perfect planned specie to communicate this.

What I love about science is the ability to just add "time" to make any theory work and then them make fun of people with "faith." Big Bang doesn't make sense? Add a couple billion years, that should do it! IT ALL TAKES FAITH IN SOMETHING. a reply to: SuperFrog

originally posted by: MoreCowbell
What I love about science is the ability to just add "time" to make any theory work and then them make fun of people with "faith." Big Bang doesn't make sense? Add a couple billion years, that should do it! IT ALL TAKES FAITH IN SOMETHING. a reply to: SuperFrog

What I love about science deniers is mind of a uneducated kid and inability to grasp that science actually has answers and evidence while they are holding on pure belief used to abuse and create force of pure ignorance for generations...

Science does not add time, science use method to see what happen over time... and scientist have learned that they can trace all bodies in cosmos to single point, where everything came to be from single location. Does not require faith, it has enough data that models can be recreated and always get the same result.

Ignorance is a bliss, isn't it?

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: MoreCowbell
What I love about science is the ability to just add "time" to make any theory work and then them make fun of people with "faith." Big Bang doesn't make sense? Add a couple billion years, that should do it! IT ALL TAKES FAITH IN SOMETHING. a reply to: SuperFrog

What I love about science deniers is mind of a uneducated kid and inability to grasp that science actually has answers and evidence while they are holding on pure belief used to abuse and create force of pure ignorance for generations...

Science does not add time, science use method to see what happen over time... and scientist have learned that they can trace all bodies in cosmos to single point, where everything came to be from single location. Does not require faith, it has enough data that models can be recreated and always get the same result.

Ignorance is a bliss, isn't it?

Only If You Exist As Its Proponent (or as allowed; ITS protagonist).

originally posted by: MoreCowbell
What I love about science is the ability to just add "time" to make any theory work and then them make fun of people with "faith." Big Bang doesn't make sense? Add a couple billion years, that should do it! IT ALL TAKES FAITH IN SOMETHING. a reply to: SuperFrog

Science does not take anything upon FAITH (this their demise). They need measurements of something instead. There is no understanding of the creative process (I THINK THEREFORE I AM).

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

Science does not take anything upon FAITH (this their demise). They need measurements of something instead. There is no understanding of the creative process (I THINK THEREFORE I AM).

Not true at all. The creative process is endemic to the postulation of many hypothesis. Just because the scientific method requires evidence to pronounce something as factual doesn't mean there is no creativity or daydreaming involved along the way. To say otherwise would imply a lack of understanding of how people actually work in various fields.

originally posted by: peter vlar
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

vhb: does not take anything upon FAITH (this their demise). They need measurements of something instead. There is no understanding of the creative process (I THINK THEREFORE I AM).

peter vlar: Not true at all. The creative process is endemic to the postulation of many hypothesis. Just because the scientific method requires evidence to pronounce something as factual doesn't mean there is no creativity or daydreaming involved along the way. To say otherwise would imply a lack of understanding of how people actually work in various fields.

Solid scientific evidence requires weights and measures; a theory to be proved, a premise of experiment. Faith is just based upon "OUT THERE" belief systems (notions that Jesus lived or a God creator or an Abraham existed). So different. I can prove the existence of fruit fly genetics existing, I cannot prove God as I do not have its DNA; unless I call my A Positive blood type an example PROOF of Gods existence. If I exist IT also must; as my accepted creator. You do not realize the potential of your own inventiveness.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
Solid scientific evidence requires weights and measures; a theory to be proved, a premise of experiment. Faith is just based upon "OUT THERE" belief systems (notions that Jesus lived or a God creator or an Abraham existed). So different. I can prove the existence of fruit fly genetics existing, I cannot prove God as I do not have its DNA; unless I call my A Positive blood type an example PROOF of Gods existence. If I exist IT also must; as my accepted creator. You do not realize the potential of your own inventiveness.

Scientific laws (measurements and calculations) are established laws of the universe and physics. Scientific theories are explanations of how those particular laws or verified processes function. Theories are based on observation and experiment, which is more than strictly measurements, it's a substantially backed explanation for how the phenomena in question works. I don't see how the A positive blood type could be considered proof of something that nobody knows exists. If anything, the iron in our blood is evidence that we came from the star material of a supernova, because it is the only known force in the universe strong enough to create heavy metal elements.