Train derailed outside of Philadelphia

originally posted by: gimmefootball400
Knowing Amtrak, they do not have a strict rule when it comes to the usage of personal electronic devices of employees. Even if they do have a policy against cell phone usage.

Conductors and engineers (T&E) are not allowed to use personal devices while on duty. Conductors aren't even supposed to have books, magazines, newspapers, etc while on duty. I've never been up in the engine, as I'm not allowed to, but from what I understand there are cameras there. Don't get me wrong though, I understand there are ways around things but why risk a fantastic job over that. I've seen and heard of conductors being pulled out of service for not wearing their hats on the platforms at stops, which is somewhat silly.

Ten or so posts below your's says the engineer was a conductor for 4 years and has been an engineer since 2010. Considering he has roughly enough seniority to hold a regular (same trip, always), or at least typically go out on the same stretch of tracks, he should be aware of where his signals are and what the speeds & speed restrictions coming up are, especially since every mile post marker (telling you where x, y, z is or when x, y, z will be coming up) is called out over the radio.

Then again I just work on board their trains out west and am not looking forward to even more doom and gloom 'they're shutting us down!' talk. We're already under enough pressure from the government as it is and this sure isn't going to help us at all And here I thought T&E had it easy with their 12 hours of service maximum per day compared to my 'hey you work until we get here' potential for 50+ hour shifts with no sleep.

wooden sleepers over 10 years old is not the economy is sabotage and threat to life, safety and the environment, if the train driver has a speed limit 55 and rides 110 it malfeasance . if you dig deeper it greed little to invest a lot to get that's sucks how old this youtu.be... 2:27 wooden sleepers? I can also waving a flashlight youtu.be... they shekel lost?

originally posted by: haaat

originally posted by: gimmefootball400
Knowing Amtrak, they do not have a strict rule when it comes to the usage of personal electronic devices of employees. Even if they do have a policy against cell phone usage.

Conductors and engineers (T&E) are not allowed to use personal devices while on duty. Conductors aren't even supposed to have books, magazines, newspapers, etc while on duty. I've never been up in the engine, as I'm not allowed to, but from what I understand there are cameras there. Don't get me wrong though, I understand there are ways around things but why risk a fantastic job over that. I've seen and heard of conductors being pulled out of service for not wearing their hats on the platforms at stops, which is somewhat silly.

Ten or so posts below your's says the engineer was a conductor for 4 years and has been an engineer since 2010. Considering he has roughly enough seniority to hold a regular (same trip, always), or at least typically go out on the same stretch of tracks, he should be aware of where his signals are and what the speeds & speed restrictions coming up are, especially since every mile post marker (telling you where x, y, z is or when x, y, z will be coming up) is called out over the radio.

Then again I just work on board their trains out west and am not looking forward to even more doom and gloom 'they're shutting us down!' talk. We're already under enough pressure from the government as it is and this sure isn't going to help us at all

And here I thought T&E had it easy with their 12 hours of service maximum per day compared to my 'hey you work until we get here' potential for 50+ hour shifts with no sleep.

Actually this guy is right.. Every incident where the emergency brake is pulled the cameras will record what happened..

Also Gimmesomefootball the train enthusiast.. That video how fast you think that train was going?? It doesn't look like 100mph.. Maybe 50 at most? It looks a tad faster than 40mph... Which is the speed the fastest trains where I live go..

And about cellphones.. Amtrak borrows that rail from Other places like down here in Pgh NS and CSX own the rail here.. Amtrak is using the rail.. They have to follow the rules of these places in order to use their rail.. Just saying.. I know for a fact NS and CSX and as stated above BNSF are strict on this no phone thing.. You literally have to be off the train to use a phone.. Usually they are in the company car to use thier phone..
I know this because I taxi and I have seen all kinda engines that are used on the rail..

::EDIT::
I have to make a half correction here..
Amtrak does own some rail.. but not much to write home about..

Northeast Corridor: The 363 miles of the 456-mile corridor connecting Washington, Philadelphia, New York and Boston, the busiest passenger line in the country, with trains regularly reaching speeds of 125 - 150 mph (201 - 241 kph). Two sections are owned by others: 1) the New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority (10 miles) and Connecticut Department of Transportation (46 miles) own 56 miles on Metro North between New Rochelle, NY, and New Haven, CT; 2) the state of Massachusetts owns 38 miles between the Massachusetts/Rhode Island border and Boston that is operated and maintained by Amtrak.
Springfield Line: A 60.5-mile track segment from New Haven, CT, to Springfield, MA.
Keystone Corridor: The 104 miles of up to 110 mph (177 kph) track in Pennsylvania between Philadelphia and Harrisburg.

But I am not sure where this accident took place except in Phily..
And the rest is here where Amtrak runs..

The six largest host railroads for Amtrak trains are:

BNSF Railway, 6.8 million train miles
Union Pacific Railroad, 6.1 million train miles
CSX Transportation, 5.2 million train miles
Norfolk Southern Railway, 2.4 million train miles
Canadian National Railway, 1.4 million train miles
Metro North Railroad, 1.3 million train miles

Link to Amtrak

I also want to point out.. This was a NS derailment last yr in Altoona Pa the train was going 40/45 mph.. The reason for this incident was the rail was screwed up..



Just because people wanna make a incident doesn't mean it is always the case.. It may be been rail..
But like I said lets see what they say... Because I really do not think that train was going 100 mph.

a reply to: ThichHeaded

I forget how many pages back it was when I said this. Judging from what I could tell in the photos alone. It was doing at least thirty miles an hour over what it was supposed to have been doing. What is deceiving about videos like what has been shown from the surveillance tapes doesn't do it justice. When you factor in the distance the camera is away from the tracks to the train's actual speed. The amount of space between that camera and the train will make it seem like the train is moving slower than what it actually is.


It appears that I wasn't off by much in the excessive speed category.

It was going 106 mph when the engineer applied the brake, the black-box recorder shows. When the black-box data shut off due to loss of power/data from the wreck it read 102 mph. That is twice the maximum speed for that curve of 50 mph. That is from the NTSB spokesman.

At 2:30 in the below video...



Also of note, the system for automatic braking was not installed on that section of track at this time.

originally posted by: Johnwickedx100
Snipped

Some elaboration would have been nice here, but I looked into it and while I can see the coincidences you see, I am more inclined to think this might be this years overdue puzzle of Cicada 3301

a reply to: spirit_horse

Hmm This is interesting news.. What is an auto breaking system? I have nver heard of this.. I guess I will ask when I goto work saturday or whatever..

The other interesting thing.. The speed is a tad insane.. Trainmasters for where I work literally hide in the weeds to see if the trains are speeding anywhere along the tracks.. So the railroaders where I work around 150 200 or so do not speed.. Either something is up or the engineer was on crack.. They wanna tag the conductor but from how it stands where I work you have to be certified to ride them rails.. The engineer along with the conductor has to know where the signals and crap is on the tracks and how fast they should be going... And where I work you are a conductor before you can be an engineer for at least a yr.. and are trained on the same tracks you were a conductor on..

This accident isnt making alot of sense...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: UnBreakable

I find it hard to beleive that a curve rated for 50mph would not have any super elevation.

I'm not a physicist nor engineer so I can't attest to the banking degree to accommodate g-force on that section of track. The 'elevation' must not be that great if the speed is reduced to 50 mph along that stretch. I'm not familiar to the 'super elevation' term.

Now the engineer doesn't remember crash, according to his attorney. How convenient. I see a seizure/amnesia defense.

"Amtrak Engineer 'Very Distraught,' Doesn't Remember Crash, Attorney Says"
gma.yahoo.com...

originally posted by: ThichHeaded
a reply to: spirit_horse

Hmm This is interesting news.. What is an auto breaking system? I have nver heard of this.. I guess I will ask when I goto work saturday or whatever..

The other interesting thing.. The speed is a tad insane.. Trainmasters for where I work literally hide in the weeds to see if the trains are speeding anywhere along the tracks.. So the railroaders where I work around 150 200 or so do not speed.. Either something is up or the engineer was on crack.. They wanna tag the conductor but from how it stands where I work you have to be certified to ride them rails.. The engineer along with the conductor has to know where the signals and crap is on the tracks and how fast they should be going... And where I work you are a conductor before you can be an engineer for at least a yr.. and are trained on the same tracks you were a conductor on..

This accident isnt making alot of sense...

I can vouch for this. Train masters do the same out here on the west coast. Even the dispatcher for a section/zone of track will do random tests on train crews (freight as well as passenger trains). The briefings conductors & engineers have before even stepping foot on their train is all about speed restrictions, any sort of construction going on, if there's a fair/festival/whatever near a part of tracks, etc.

originally posted by: mangust69
wooden sleepers over 10 years old is not the economy is sabotage and threat to life, safety and the environment, if the train driver has a speed limit 55 and rides 110 it malfeasance . if you dig deeper it greed little to invest a lot to get that's sucks how old this youtu.be... 2:27 wooden sleepers? I can also waving a flashlight youtu.be... they shekel lost?

Those aren't wooden sleepers, and it's a commuter train so there's no sleepers at all. They're single level equipment. We use them out west between San Luis Obispo and San Diego, at least once a day. It's cheaper to refurbish equipment than it is to buy new equipment, and we don't have money to buy new equipment nor will the government help fund us to get the new stuff. We have a hard enough time getting government funding just to continue operating day to day.

originally posted by: UnBreakable
Now the engineer doesn't remember crash, according to his attorney. How convenient. I see a seizure/amnesia defense.

"Amtrak Engineer 'Very Distraught,' Doesn't Remember Crash, Attorney Says"
gma.yahoo.com...

As far as I know, and this is an assumption, you cannot be an engineer if you have seizures. I can't even become a conductor because I'm partially colorblind.

a reply to: haaat

He could say he never had a history of seizures, and this was a lone episode out of the blue. Not that he definitely had one, mind you.

a reply to: ThichHeaded

Sorry, I meant 'speed control system'. I guess it clicked in my head for some reason that would involve the brakes, but perhaps it is in the traction motors? I am no train expert or enthusiast, but really posted because that was the first time I saw the NTSB spokesman talking about it. I was thinking about something I heard about the dispatchers or controllers having an automatic braking system or something they can activate to stop a runaway subway train in New York.

a reply to: spirit_horse

www.nydailynews.com...

12 people still unaccounted for... apparently Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostian has long posted online rants about the lack of rail safety systems like the "positive train control" that critics say could have prevented the Philadelphia derailment — which happened with Bostian at the train's controls.

his phone was in a zip loc bag, he has a concussion,no prior health issues, not on any medications.


The International Business Times cited another one of Bostian's forum chats in 2009, where he warned of the perils of having an overtired crew.
"Everyone wants an extension to hours of service to avoid inconvenience, but what will you say when the crew that's been on duty for longer than 12 hours accidentally falls asleep and passes a stop signal and rear-ends a loaded hazmat train, killing dozens or hundreds of people?" Bostian wrote.

a reply to: opethPA

Wow, another one???

Rebel 5

a reply to: research100

From what I've been told by people that I know who work on both Norfolk Southern and CSX. Positive Train Control is only designed to prevent head on collisions only. There are two major drawbacks to PTC that were never addressed before the requirement of implementation was passed back in late 2008 to early 2009. There was nothing in mind with the design and programming to prevent this type of accident or rear end type collisions between trains from happening. There is no fail safe that was developed to be used with Positive Train Control to keep an accident like this from happening.

However, seeing as to how these and all locomotives in North America are equipped with an alerter system to keep a crew alert and awake. How did him not acknowledging the alerter when it started to ring not apply a full emergency application to stop the train or was it already too late when the brakes applied?

MSM is saying that the Philly train sped up just before the crash. Reminds me of the plane where the pilot purposely flew the plane into the French alps. terrorism is unpredictable. Now it's who ever is activated will carry out the act of terror.

I was sent this earlier on Facebook by a friend of mine pertaining to the derailment in Philly on Tuesday. This is from the Track-A-Train application that Amtrak has made available for customers to use to see where their train is at and if it's on time or not. The screenshot is from that application and it was taken just moments before the train derailed.

Is it just me, or is it strange that the train mysteriously picked up twice it's safe speed, and a Wells Fargo VP happened to die?... I smell sabotage....