The United States is, and has always been, A Christian Nation

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
...
I think that was a given way back then. There was no need to state it. Kind of like saying "we are human beings"...no crap! But while I don't believe in God nor support religion, I still have no problem with the idea or hope that there is something bigger than us. Christians call it God, others call it nature and others yet call it aliens. Regardless of the name, I doesn't bother me that our founding is based upon us being less important than something that created or helped to create us. There is something comforting and humbling that there could be a God.

It may have been a given (for some Founders) that "religion" equated to Christian belief. However, there was enough of an issue even at that time for the Founders to specifically prohibit passing laws with respect to religion (1st Amendment) and also to prohibit religious tests for public office (Article VI paragraph 3). They understood that the tendency would be for people to expect their leaders to adhere to some religious standard, so they did what they could to curtail that tendency. And they did it on purpose, in direct language.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this is such a subject of contention with American ATS members...

Why does it matter whether or not the US was founded as a christian nation ?

The Constitution is what it is.
The Declaration of Independence is what it is.

Or are people hoping to change those things by determining if the US is a christian nation or not ?

And if so, what exactly is it that you're hoping to change ?

There are some from the Christian right that are trying to re-write history in Texas they actually have re-written history for the classroom removing prominent founding fathers and replacing them with Moses. Our country is facing a fundamentalist bid for takeover we are at a crossroads much like Islam faced a crossroads when Imam al-Ghaazali's influence turned their culture from an enlightened and educated culture to what it is today. One of his statements was "manipulating numbers is the work of the devil" which destroyed their history of Astronomy, engineering, and agriculture. Algebra, algorithm, and aribic numerals are Arabic words and traceable to the Islamic Golden Age.

Re-writing our history as a theological nation brings us one step closer to a turning point much like they faced.

Anyway, since this thread is about a NLBS video here it is.

originally posted by: Metallicus
There is a lot of hate towards your Christian beliefs here on ATS. Even more hate towards God. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs. Notice the first response to your OP was to try and get it 404'd. Typical of ATS.

I don't see "Hate towards…Christian beliefs…". I see people who are fed up with people of religious faiths attempting to sway the opinion of others on a regular basis in matters that are not inherently religious in nature. If a person is to have a personal relationship with God, then why can't these people keep it that way?!

From my perspective, most religions teach tolerance however most religious people, when in groups, rarely actually practice tolerance.

Let's agree that religion has no business in business or in public service however, we do not control business and we are supposed to control public servants.

Sooooo, why not keep God in your heart and out of your discussions with others where it may be inflammatory or insensitive to others who may not agree with you?

Lets have a look at this
Thou Shalt not kill
1.currently 1.21 million abortions a year 50.4 million since 1970
2.15 million approx killed by the USA since WW2 90 percent civilians 30 per cent children

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
1.Estimated 40 to 60 per cent of married citizens will engage in infidelity

Thou shalt not steal
1.Every 15 seconds there is a burglary
2.every 29 seconds there is a car stolen

Lets stop that there,OP there were Christian principals involved in founding your country but the founders knew to separate church and state and whilst your nation may once of been Christian it is now a secular consumer society with some Christians in it,a Muslim recently conducted the opening prayer for congress and your nation with Hollywierd and the Music industry is now the first to record mental illness for posterity if this is the endtimes and if the USA was in the bible there is only one place it could be which is Babylon itself it fullfils every EVERY description in the book.

originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: Metallicus
There is a lot of hate towards your Christian beliefs here on ATS. Even more hate towards God. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs. Notice the first response to your OP was to try and get it 404'd. Typical of ATS.

I don't see 'Hate towards…Christian beliefs…". I see people who are fed up with people of religious faiths attempting to sway the opinion of others on a regular basis in matters that are not inherently religious in nature. If a person is to have a personal relationship with God, then why can't these people keep it that way?!

From my perspective, most religions teach tolerance however most religious people, when in groups, rarely actually practice tolerance.

Let's agree that religion has no business in business or in public service however, we do not control business and we are supposed to control public servants.

Sooooo, why not keep God in your heart and out of your discussions with others where it may be inflammatory or insensitive to others who may not agree with you?

Just wanted to make a point. Re-read your post and substitute gay for Christian. Why can't they keep it personal? Why can't they practice tolerance? Lets agree sexual preference has no business in business or public service. Keep your sexual preference in your heart and out of your discussions.

Just an observation...not an argument. If you want equality...real equality...things must be equal.

For the sake of argument, let's say that America is a "Christian Nation". So what? What happens next?

Are we still granted our liberties granted by the constitution, or are we now going to discriminate against those that do not fit in to the Christian majority? Why don't we just toss out the constitution and become a Christian theocracy?

What point does it serve to call America a "Christian nation"?

It's only my opinion, but I think this entire debate centers around a group of people that wish to validate their personal beliefs through their politics.

If we really were a christian nation, we would be a socialist/communist nation in which all people had healthcare, food, housing...etc. You know, The type of stuff Jesus would want for all of us and taught us.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: UnBreakable
"Our Founding Fathers were not Christians

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.

I think that was a given way back then. There was no need to state it. Kind of like saying "we are human beings"...no crap! But while I don't believe in God nor support religion, I still have no problem with the idea or hope that there is something bigger than us. Christians call it God, others call it nature and others yet call it aliens. Regardless of the name, I doesn't bother me that our founding is based upon us being less important than something that created or helped to create us. There is something comforting and humbling that there could be a God.

I don't think God is being denied. Just pointing out that the God, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. is specified in the Constitution, going against the OP claiming that the US is a strictly Christian nation from the beginning.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: ColeYounger
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.


"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

Jefferson also edited the New Testament and removed all the magical things Jesus did. What kind of Christian would do that?

You're telling a half-truth here.
'The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth', which I assume you're referring to, was Jefferson's cut-and-paste
project...a compendium of what he considered to be the important doctrines of Jesus. He used it for his own
study. Jefferson himself was a naturalist, and he objected to clergy and self-promoting minister types who always
cited the supernatural, and miracles as a method of appearing holier. or more knowledgeable than the regular folk.


The book was his guide for living so to speak. He never even made the writings public. Truth-stretching journalists invented the "Jefferson Bible" story.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: Metallicus
There is a lot of hate towards your Christian beliefs here on ATS. Even more hate towards God. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs. Notice the first response to your OP was to try and get it 404'd. Typical of ATS.

I don't see 'Hate towards…Christian beliefs…". I see people who are fed up with people of religious faiths attempting to sway the opinion of others on a regular basis in matters that are not inherently religious in nature. If a person is to have a personal relationship with God, then why can't these people keep it that way?!

From my perspective, most religions teach tolerance however most religious people, when in groups, rarely actually practice tolerance.

Let's agree that religion has no business in business or in public service however, we do not control business and we are supposed to control public servants.

Sooooo, why not keep God in your heart and out of your discussions with others where it may be inflammatory or insensitive to others who may not agree with you?

Just wanted to make a point. Re-read your post and substitute gay for Christian. Why can't they keep it personal? Why can't they practice tolerance? Lets agree sexual preference has no business in business or public service. Keep your sexual preference in your heart and out of your discussions.

Just an observation...not an argument. If you want equality...real equality...things must be equal.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that a person's sexuality should not be an issue or a discussion in public service!!!! PERSONAL means just that and should be treated that way.

a reply to: peskyhumans

Actually, the United States is, and always has been, a nation founded by (mostly) Christian people--people who were intelligent enough to have their own religious (or anti-religious, as the case sometimes is...remember that belief in God or Jesus and adherence to religion are different things) views and opinions, but kept them out of the founding documents.

It has been well-argued, using historical notes and information, that any references to a higher being are done in a generalized, deist sense, and not a Christian one (at least what was written on paper--whatever was in the hearts of the authors is not the point). One of the specific grievences and reasons for founding America was because of state-forced religion, and our founders made it specifically clear that it is a natural freedom to worship whatever/whomever you want (even nothing), but that our nation will not force a belief upon its citizenry.

You can quote as many founding fathers as you want, but like I said, their individual beliefs are not national doctrine (and I notice you only hand-picked the pro-religious quotes...many of the same people quoted also spoke of the evils of organized religion, to include Christianity).

Also, keep in mind, as the prevelence of religous believes continues to decline, so will the types of presidents who find it necessary to include a reference to a deity in official national things. Hell, one day, you may even have a leader who feels (as I do) that referencing any god, regardless of the religion, is against the "spirit" upon which the federal government was derived...and possibly officially remove those references altogether.

But I'm an intelligent-enough non-believer to know that national mottos and flag-related indoctrination don't speak for me, so I really don't care what they say.

a reply to: peskyhumans

Note that it specifically says in the Year of our Lord and not Anno Domini which is Latin for "in the Year of the Lord". See the difference? The U.S. Constitution acknowledges Jesus (who is the Lord) as OUR Lord, and not THE Lord which is how it's used in the Latin term Anno Domini. This is not a secular usage of Anno Domini.

The above is utterly preposterous nonsense. Anno Domini/Year of the Lord/Year of our Lord have no connotative differences. Furthermore, if they wanted to acknowledge Jesus Christ specifically, they would have done so and in fact, there is a longer form of the Latin phrase that does exactly that — Anno Domini Nostri Jesu — which translates as "In the Year of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Pasting quotes from the FF that reference Jesus/the Christian God/Christianity does not prove that the US is a "Christian Nation." Is anything made by a person who believes in the Christian faith somehow inherently Christian? If the FF had intended a state religion, they would have established one just like the many countries that have.

I will put to you the same question I asked in the NLBS thread:

What are you hoping to prove with this argument?

The FF understood — far more than the clowns who most often invoke their ghosts — that the future has no obligation to the past and that each generation has an equal right to tear down the old and build anew as it sees fit.

a reply to: introvert

at that point, god would be considered a higher legal authority than the president, congress, or all of the people on planet earth. in a word: dictatorship. a monarchy under one god. our own flavor of sharia law.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: peskyhumans

Reply threads to existing threads are against T&C at least one other has been 404ed. If you have issue with what was presented in that thread then post it there.

Also, if you are going to post quotes you should also post links. I have a feeling all of that is a copy paste from some Christian website.

My thread was 404'd and I'm waiting to find out why. I got up this morning to see it gone. It wasn't a reply to an existing thread. It was it's own thread with it's own topic. There is pretty much rampant atheism here, and being persecuted as Christians for our beliefs is common. However calling out blatant lies and misrepresentations that are sanctioned here needs to be allowed it the motto here is truly to "Deny Ignnorance". At the moment to me it seems like one of those catch-phrases they use in politics or the govt. Something that means exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to mean. Ok let me get off my high horse before someone tells me to.
Kudos to the OP of this thread for making it and having the courage to state the truth.

All europeans and brits at that time were expected to be Christian Like (in public), even if they never stepped a foot in a church. I think the teachings of Christ are wonderful way of life. Christians began to change their focus to the material in the 1980's. I wish they would return to the old time christian religions of the founding fathers generation, when the focus was spiritual and strength.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe

Kudos to the OP of this thread for making it and having the courage to state the truth.

If it is the 'truth' why did the Founding Fathers not implicitly state that the United States was Christian?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CranialSponge
And if so, what exactly is it that you're hoping to change ?

I can take a stab at one of them. It rhymes with hay carriage.

Great adage.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
...
My thread was 404'd and I'm waiting to find out why. I got up this morning to see it gone. It wasn't a reply to an existing thread. It was it's own thread with it's own topic. There is pretty much rampant atheism here, and being persecuted as Christians for our beliefs is common. However calling out blatant lies and misrepresentations that are sanctioned here needs to be allowed it the motto here is truly to "Deny Ignnorance". At the moment to me it seems like one of those catch-phrases they use in politics or the govt. Something that means exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to mean. Ok let me get off my high horse before someone tells me to.
Kudos to the OP of this thread for making it and having the courage to state the truth.

Just to be clear -- it isn't "persecution" just because someone has the audacity to disagree with you. It isn't "persecution" when people defend themselves or others against your attempts to subjugate them to religious law, be it Sharia, Abrahamic, Mosaic, or other. It isn't "persecution" when you are prevented from declaring and enforcing the supremacy of your faith over others. It would only be "persecution" if you are personally prevented from practicing your own religious rites without imposing them on others.

originally posted by: MOMof3
All europeans and brits at that time were expected to be Christian Like (in public), even if they never stepped a foot in a church. I think the teachings of Christ are wonderful way of life. Christians began to change their focus to the material in the 1980's. I wish they would return to the old time christian religions of the founding fathers generation, when the focus was spiritual and strength.

maybe if every person on earth was a christian, we would begin to realize that christianity is not the answer, just an answer.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a theological governance would mean having to change two centuries of rule, would it not ?

Exactly.

And if so, how many Americans would be okay with the idea of making drastic changes to the constitution ?

I would wager not as much as the fundamentalists think.