The United States is, and has always been, A Christian Nation

originally posted by: buster2010
Why is this so hard for Christians to understand?

Understanding is easy... it's the acceptance that's so troublesome.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this is such a subject of contention with American ATS members...

Why does it matter whether or not the US was founded as a christian nation ?

The Constitution is what it is.
The Declaration of Independence is what it is.

Or are people hoping to change those things by determining if the US is a christian nation or not ?

And if so, what exactly is it that you're hoping to change ?

originally posted by: CranialSponge
And if so, what exactly is it that you're hoping to change ?

I can take a stab at one of them. It rhymes with hay carriage.

Treaty of Tripoli


"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Written by Joel Barlow who had served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army. It was signed on 4 November, 1796 during George Washington's last term as president. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797

a reply to: Grimpachi

Is that you, Satan?

a reply to: peskyhumans

Wasn't one of the ideas behind the founding of America religious freedom ? Then wouldn't proclaiming it as a "Christian Nation" kind of be counterproductive?

a reply to: peskyhumans

Separation Of Church And State
Separation of Church and State - The Metaphor and the Constitution
"Separation of church and state" is a common metaphor that is well recognized. Equally well recognized is the metaphorical meaning of the church staying out of the state's business and the state staying out of the church's business. Because of the very common usage of the "separation of church and state phrase," most people incorrectly think the phrase is in the constitution. The phrase "wall of separation between the church and the state" was originally coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802. His purpose in this letter was to assuage the fears of the Danbury, Connecticut Baptists, and so he told them that this wall had been erected to protect them. The metaphor was used exclusively to keep the state out of the church's business, not to keep the church out of the state's business.

Source

Naming a country as Christian or Muslim or Pastafarian is incorrect. Even if the nation is made predominantly of a certain religious demographic, there is no need (besides for political gain) to mention it. It would be best if it were not allowed for any public servant to ever discuss their faith while holding office!

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I am Jedi.....sometimes.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this is such a subject of contention with American ATS members...

Why does it matter whether or not the US was founded as a christian nation ?

The Constitution is what it is.
The Declaration of Independence is what it is.

Or are people hoping to change those things by determining if the US is a christian nation or not ?

And if so, what exactly is it that you're hoping to change ?

If the US is not a specifically Christian nation, then all these honest, God-fearing, charitable, generous, forgiving, cheek-turning Christians would have to do horrible things like let other people live their lives according to their own morals. And that just isn't okay, because Christians do not believe in "live and let live". They believe that there is ONE way, and if you don't follow it, off with your head. They're a lot like ISIS that way, just don't tell them that because they hate it when you compare Christian extremists to Muslim extremists for some reason.

But if the US is a Christian nation, well then, that's a different story. Now the Christians can use the full power of the Government to impose Christian morality and behavior on the masses. Nevermind that in John 18:36 Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world." In fact, nevermind most of the things Jesus said, because if Christians started listening to Jesus they'd start selling off their belongings, joining communes, helping the poor, and doing a bunch of other stuff St. Ayn Rand would have hated. So it's better for the US to be officially Christian, so they can do what Jesus commanded them to do -- "Render unto God the things that are Gods, and also render unto God the things that are Caesar's because #$@%@# Caesar." It's in there somewhere, I'm sure.

Listen to this guy....... Scary as hell.

There is a lot of hate towards your Christian beliefs here on ATS. Even more hate towards God. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs. Notice the first response to your OP was to try and get it 404'd. Typical of ATS.

Okay, so from what I've gathered, it sounds like the reasoning behind trying to establish the US as a christian nation is for the sole purpose of making changes to your Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and other similar documents established by the founding fathers ?

And that's why this is such a sore spot with so many of you ?

originally posted by: Metallicus
There is a lot of hate towards your Christian beliefs here on ATS. Even more hate towards God. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs. Notice the first response to your OP was to try and get it 404'd. Typical of ATS.

more like consideration for ATS as a productive and respectable forum. if there were any inclination to refute the claim that the US is not a christian nation, it should be done where the claim was made instead of making a whole new thread because the initial thread is already full of evidence refuting the claim that new thread would (did) make here.

TL;DR: picking a new court because the home team was too good and you knew it. GG.

a reply to: CranialSponge

And that's why this is such a sore spot with so many of you ?

They keep trying to pass laws that enable discrimination on the basis of their religion. But, they keep losing their fight for superiority. Looking for another angle, they decided to just rewrite history and declare The United States of America a Christian Corporation, with closely held beliefs. Problem solved!

originally posted by: CranialSponge

Okay, so from what I've gathered, it sounds like the reasoning behind trying to establish the US as a christian nation is for the sole purpose of making changes to your Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and other similar documents established by the founding fathers ?

And that's why this is such a sore spot with so many of you ?

The Constitution is exceptionally and intentionally difficult to modify and the Declaration has no bearing on United States law. I would wager it is so they have a basis to control morality and use a erroneous premise (a Christian nation) to force others into observing that personal morality.

Sadly for them it could not happen without quite a bit of juris prudence reversing centuries of case law or some serious amending of the Constitution.

a reply to: peskyhumans

Even if most or all the founding fathers agreed on something, it doesn't mean it's formalized into the U.S. Constitution. Most agreed on the inferiority of non-whites and women but that wasn't strictly formalized.

If I'm not mistaken, the Bible (you pick the book) forbids placing any laws above it. If the founders were real Christian fundies, they would know this and explicitly state the subordination of the Constitution to the Bible. I guess they would have to name one. My guess is they realized the conundrum and avoided it altogether

This "Christian nation" meme is not based on so-called Christian values. It's based on the perverted authoritarianism which runs counter to the spirit of the US Constitution. It's a means to exert control over other people.

That's it. It's evil. It's the same value basis as Taliban and Iran.

a reply to: Metallicus

I don't hate anyone, but religious people (including atheist) seems to be all the time like this



It gets annoying, it doesn't matter what its your religion, the majority of the world doesn't care for it and does not belong to it

originally posted by: Metallicus
There is a lot of hate towards your Christian beliefs here on ATS. Even more hate towards God. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs. Notice the first response to your OP was to try and get it 404'd. Typical of ATS.

I do agree that there is a lot of hate on ATS for religion, I tend to stay out of those debates.

However it is possible to say that the US is not a Christian country with out being some how anti-christian. I think the idea of having any western country termed as being "Christian" is a old way of thinking as America, like most western societies represents a number of religious faiths.

Additionally, it is the norm for threads like these to get 404'd and the OP encouraged to post his/her thoughts to the thread concerned.

originally posted by: UnBreakable
"Our Founding Fathers were not Christians

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.

I think that was a given way back then. There was no need to state it. Kind of like saying "we are human beings"...no crap! But while I don't believe in God nor support religion, I still have no problem with the idea or hope that there is something bigger than us. Christians call it God, others call it nature and others yet call it aliens. Regardless of the name, I doesn't bother me that our founding is based upon us being less important than something that created or helped to create us. There is something comforting and humbling that there could be a God.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Sadly for them it could not happen without quite a bit of juris prudence reversing centuries of case law or some serious amending of the Constitution.

Okay, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Establishing a theological governance would mean having to change two centuries of rule, would it not ?

And if so, how many Americans would be okay with the idea of making drastic changes to the constitution ?