Alien conflicts

a reply to: moth115

The battle over neurembourg in the 16th century is indicative that it is at least possible, there have been also more recent sighting's of apparent combat/pursuit between unusual UFO type craft that anyone interested in the subject will be familiar with.

There are multiple possible sources of conflict though, we do not need them to be Extra Terrestrial, they may be Extra Dimensional or from an alternate earth therefor without knowing there adjenda's but assuming those adjenda may clash and or they may themselve's have a history it is possible, also a war spilling over or even a police type action from these other dimension's/reality's may also be a possible source of conflict.

Given that it may be easier to travel between dimension's than to exceed the speed of light and to use this dimensional travel to circumvent such a mechanical limitation as an alternative to warping technology it is also more than likely that this may be an actual occurance.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: moth115
Do you think that it would be likely that different types of alien visiting Earth would have disagreements?

As no aliens are visiting, how could they disagree?
First some evidence that aliens are visiting would be good!

How many times we would have to read such uninformed 'opinions' on the matter?

Aliens are visiting. Alien are interacting. Aliens are abducting people. Period.

Can we just STOP playing fool and discuss more important issues?

I'm with you, JackHill. The time has come to move the discussion forward, aliens are here. As a person who has had close encounters, I know it for a fact. But the body of evidence is overwhelming, there is no valid excuse for clinging to the flimsy and unworkable position of denial.

So why do they? Simple. Indoctrination.

Authorities have gone to great lengths to cover-up the evidence and curtail investigation.
The military considers UFOs to be of the utmost importance, and they've made it clear to the Executive branch and the Legislative that they are not to ask too many questions.
Remember what happened when Senator Barry Goldwater tried to get in to see recovered alien bodies?
I suggest people look into that incident if they are unfamiliar with it.

The media follows lockstep.
They've fomented a climate of ridicule and mockery towards anyone who breaches the subject seriously.
The giggle factor, they call it. Many still fall for it, and many still peddle it. '
Watch any local TV news anchors reporting on a UFO sighting in their area, and inevitably; that familiar, uncomfortable laugh, that nervous, tense, forced laughter.
They preface their UFO coverage with hollow banter like, "Better get your tin-foil hat on for this one..."
Jokes about little green men.
"ET phone home!" they quip, witlessly.
And notice they always act shocked when they have interview footage of someone of good standing who witnessed the UFO event and is convinced it is of alien origin." But wait, Diane, this man acutally believes that it could have been aliens....but maybe he means Mexicans! Ha Ha Ha...Back to you..."

Folks, did you ever notice that they tell you far more outlandish, unprovable speculation all the time:
String Theory.
A quantum universe.
Multiple dimensions.
Dark matter. Dark energy.

These are far more speculative concepts, most entirely untestable.
But when they talk about them on the news guess what?
Nobody laughs.

These accepted theories are far less likely than contact with an alien race.
Especially with thousands of newly discovered planets and Earth twins in the Goldilocks zone.

But they only laugh at UFOs.
Why?

Indoctrination.

Use your brain for more than just washing,

This is what I try to tell EVERYONE around me. Yet I'M illogical. LOL

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: Scdfa

I'd ask my Space Brothers from the Pleiades what they think, but they don't believe Jadestar exists.

Oh my god. Just brilliant. Please never leave this forum.

BTW, I hope you take some time and make a thread with your experience eventually.

Could you BE any more over-the-top in your public display of slobbering affection?

BTW, many of us have also expressed this hope.

Yes. I am very interested in the details of Scdfa's story. It's a pity he spends more time in verbal jousting which references his experience than writing down the details OF his experience. Details of which may be of value in supporting his story.

In the meantime you can read about this particular case, and give us your inputs about it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The first question: is there anything left which can be tested?

For instance, in the Hill case the University of New Hampshire has the physical evidence associated with the case open for examination as part of the Hill collection.

Is there a similar repository in this case?

In the last video, the only remaining alive direct witness of the event claimed that after arriving at Buenos Aires, and after everyone knew about their UFO story, some men apprached (like 'NASA' men, it's what he claims) and asked for the clothes they were wearing and even the car. They're still frightened about what happened to them and didn't give it a second thought. They delivered everything that was asked.

The clothes, never returned. I don't know what happened to the car, he claims that they held it for a couple of days and later was returned.

In any case, there's no rational explanation on how they achieved their destination so fast, impossible for the car they were driving. In fact, they arrived and just after a couple of hours has passed the rest of the cars of the competition started to appear, as expected, in time. That's why some other pilots accused them of cheating... but, cheating, how exactly?

Who transported them and the car altogether? A cargo helicopter? In the middle of the night, like a military operation? Makes no sense whatsoever. They didn't have access to anything remote close to that. How do we explain the later report from other pilots that claimed to be close to the same unkown lights on the road, even when they didn't know in first place about the story of these two guys?

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JadeStar

Is there a similar repository in this case?

I gave it a look over and it just sounds like a couple of guys that ran out of gas with a UFO story attached. sounds kind of typical really. just one for the mountain I suppose.

So you gave it a pretty bad look. Please try again. I'm sorry you don't understand spanish so you can listen the whole story.

Witnesses at the departure point.
Witnesses at the arrival.
Time of arrival completely impossible, hours before any possible expected time.
No shorcuts on the road, almost a straight line one.
Secondary witnesses claimed to have seen the same type of 'weird' lights without knowing yet the original story.
Strange suited-up men in Buenos Aires claiming for the clothes and the car.

Try again.

originally posted by: JadeStar
Didn't you, earlier in this thread, accuse scientists who are patiently waiting for conclusive data regarding extraterrestrial life of having "delusions of grandeur?"...

That scientists would be "patiently waiting for conclusive data" is the problem. Scientists are the ones who should be GETTING that conclusive data. Yet they refuse to even look. And you acknowledge this elsewhere. (See your quote a few paragraphs down below.) I can think of no other topic where professional scientists sit around and demand that amateurs hand them "conclusive data" before science will even agree to study it. That perfect barrier (clearly based on circular reasoning) has been around since the beginning. The threshold that's needed in order to trigger serious and professional investigation was met over 65 years ago. (See Bluebook Special Report 14, for example. Which, by the way, substantially refutes your idea that most UFOs are nothing more than misidentifications of normal, natural phenomena.)

You also said:

...the problem is not with [scientists] who ask for testable evidence. The problem is with why such evidence is so hard to come by in this field.

Incorrect. Bias in science is as real as the sun and moon. For one quick and relevant example, I'll point you to Billy Cox's fantastic UFO blog over at the Sarasota Herald Tribune. Take a look at how ridiculous 'real' science can behave when it comes to UFOs: "Careful what you ask for" Mainstream science journals refused to even consider the paper, which was by a credible, Ph.D'd (and non-UFO-connected) chemist, pertaining to a strong and credible UFO trace case.

There are, not surprisingly, other instances of this same kind of thing. Don't you think that may be something that affects whether UFO evidence is "hard to come by"?

Curiously, in other places you've actually acknowledged science's bias towards the topic. Like here, where you said "people in academia would look at me a little strangely for even considering that there might be anything of value in studying UFOlogy."

To me, your opinion on the prevalence of decent UFO evidence doesn't seem to fit with your first-hand knowledge of the attitudes held by most scientists... the very scientists who act as gatekeepers to the journals... the same journals you demand UFO evidence be presented within before you'll acknowledge it.

This is purely opinion, obviously, but your unconditional trust of mainstream science and its practitioners seems naive. No, people definitely shouldn't underestimate all that science has done for us -- look how far humanity has come in just a few hundred years -- but, at the same time, it'd be foolish to deny that the practice of science is often messy, filled with the same capriciousness and professional 'politics' that plagues most everything we humans do.

For more on the politics of science, see Dr. Paul McCarthy's Ph.D. dissertation, "Politicking and Paradigm Shifting: James E. McDonald and the UFO Case Study.". It's very enlightening.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: moth115
Do you think that it would be likely that different types of alien visiting Earth would have disagreements?

As no aliens are visiting, how could they disagree?
First some evidence that aliens are visiting would be good!

How many times we would have to read such uninformed 'opinions' on the matter?

Aliens are visiting. Alien are interacting. Aliens are abducting people. Period.

Can we just STOP playing fool and discuss more important issues?

I'm with you, JackHill. The time has come to move the discussion forward, aliens are here. As a person who has had close encounters, I know it for a fact. But the body of evidence is overwhelming, there is no valid excuse for clinging to the flimsy and unworkable position of denial.

So why do they? Simple. Indoctrination.

Authorities have gone to great lengths to cover-up the evidence and curtail investigation.
The military considers UFOs to be of the utmost importance, and they've made it clear to the Executive branch and the Legislative that they are not to ask too many questions.
Remember what happened when Senator Barry Goldwater tried to get in to see recovered alien bodies?
I suggest people look into that incident if they are unfamiliar with it.

The media follows lockstep.
They've fomented a climate of ridicule and mockery towards anyone who breaches the subject seriously.
The giggle factor, they call it. Many still fall for it, and many still peddle it. '
Watch any local TV news anchors reporting on a UFO sighting in their area, and inevitably; that familiar, uncomfortable laugh, that nervous, tense, forced laughter.
They preface their UFO coverage with hollow banter like, "Better get your tin-foil hat on for this one..."
Jokes about little green men.
"ET phone home!" they quip, witlessly.
And notice they always act shocked when they have interview footage of someone of good standing who witnessed the UFO event and is convinced it is of alien origin." But wait, Diane, this man acutally believes that it could have been aliens....but maybe he means Mexicans! Ha Ha Ha...Back to you..."

Folks, did you ever notice that they tell you far more outlandish, unprovable speculation all the time:
String Theory.
A quantum universe.
Multiple dimensions.
Dark matter. Dark energy.

These are far more speculative concepts, most entirely untestable.
But when they talk about them on the news guess what?
Nobody laughs.

These accepted theories are far less likely than contact with an alien race.
Especially with thousands of newly discovered planets and Earth twins in the Goldilocks zone.

But they only laugh at UFOs.
Why?

Indoctrination.

Use your brain for more than just washing,

I wish i could give you more stars , this was the best description on how the mass indoctorination works that i ever read.

10/10



You win the internet today

originally posted by: DarthFazer

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: moth115
Do you think that it would be likely that different types of alien visiting Earth would have disagreements?

As no aliens are visiting, how could they disagree?
First some evidence that aliens are visiting would be good!

How many times we would have to read such uninformed 'opinions' on the matter?

Aliens are visiting. Alien are interacting. Aliens are abducting people. Period.

Can we just STOP playing fool and discuss more important issues?

I'm with you, JackHill. The time has come to move the discussion forward, aliens are here. As a person who has had close encounters, I know it for a fact. But the body of evidence is overwhelming, there is no valid excuse for clinging to the flimsy and unworkable position of denial.

So why do they? Simple. Indoctrination.

Authorities have gone to great lengths to cover-up the evidence and curtail investigation.
The military considers UFOs to be of the utmost importance, and they've made it clear to the Executive branch and the Legislative that they are not to ask too many questions.
Remember what happened when Senator Barry Goldwater tried to get in to see recovered alien bodies?
I suggest people look into that incident if they are unfamiliar with it.

The media follows lockstep.
They've fomented a climate of ridicule and mockery towards anyone who breaches the subject seriously.
The giggle factor, they call it. Many still fall for it, and many still peddle it. '
Watch any local TV news anchors reporting on a UFO sighting in their area, and inevitably; that familiar, uncomfortable laugh, that nervous, tense, forced laughter.
They preface their UFO coverage with hollow banter like, "Better get your tin-foil hat on for this one..."
Jokes about little green men.
"ET phone home!" they quip, witlessly.
And notice they always act shocked when they have interview footage of someone of good standing who witnessed the UFO event and is convinced it is of alien origin." But wait, Diane, this man acutally believes that it could have been aliens....but maybe he means Mexicans! Ha Ha Ha...Back to you..."

Folks, did you ever notice that they tell you far more outlandish, unprovable speculation all the time:
String Theory.
A quantum universe.
Multiple dimensions.
Dark matter. Dark energy.

These are far more speculative concepts, most entirely untestable.
But when they talk about them on the news guess what?
Nobody laughs.

These accepted theories are far less likely than contact with an alien race.
Especially with thousands of newly discovered planets and Earth twins in the Goldilocks zone.

But they only laugh at UFOs.
Why?

Indoctrination.

Use your brain for more than just washing,

I wish i could give you more stars , this was the best description on how the mass indoctorination works that i ever read.

10/10

You win the internet today

Why Thank you, Darth Fazer, I've never won the internet before!
There's so many people to thank.... Tea and Strumpets, Planet X is here, JackHill, TrueMessiah, NoCorruptionAllowed, Kandinski

But seriously, it is nice when people like your posts.I like all of your posts too.

And I try to appreciate what all the other posters have to say as well.

Now to keep this thread on topic, I want to chime in on the question of alien conflicts.

I think if you take a good look at the Vedic texts it describes in great detail a conflict between warring factions of extraterrestrial beings with craft and weapons of very advanced technology.

Specifically, the Mahabharata, in which war between these advanced beings escalates to what sounds eerily similar to atomic war.

"Dense arrows of flame, like a great shower, issued forth upon creation, encompassing the enemy....A thick gloom swiftly settled
upon the Pandava hosts. All points of the compass were lost in darkness. Fierce winds began to blow. Clouds roared upward,
showering dust and gravel.
"Birds croaked madly...the very elements seemed disturbed. The sun seemed to waver in the heavens. The earth shook,
scorched by the terrible violent heat of this weapon. Elephants burst into flame and ran to and fro in a frenzy...over a vast area,
other animals crumpled to the ground and died. From all points of the compass the arrows of flame rained continuously and
fiercely."

"Gurkha, flying in his swift and powerful Vimana, hurled against the three cities of the Vrishnis and Andhakas a single projectile
charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all
its splendour...An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the
Andhakas....The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without apparent
cause, and the birds turned white....After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw
themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment..."
- The Mahabharata

a reply to: JackHill

So you gave it a pretty bad look. Please try again.

I'm sure most people didn't even look so whatever. Nothing really jumped out at me. Lots of "claims" as you point out.

a reply to: TeaAndStrumpets

That scientists would be "patiently waiting for conclusive data" is the problem. Scientists are the ones who should be GETTING that conclusive data.

The problem is everyone is waiting for someone else to do the work.
First they would have to get unlimited funding. And lets face it, its an investment with an almost guaranteed failure...even if that "conclusive data" is found, wont it be covered up by the government? And then how do you get the data? Don't you have to wait for these things to appear? And why wait for scientists to get the data for you, why not get it yourself or assemble a team? Anyway, I think Vallee has the correct approach.

Take a look at how ridiculous 'real' science can behave when it comes to UFOs: "Careful what you ask for" Mainstream science journals refused to even consider the paper, which was by a credible, Ph.D'd (and non-UFO-connected) chemist, pertaining to a strong and credible UFO trace case.

Thanks! I stumbled across this thread a while ago and thought it was really interesting but I couldn't remember the thread title. I think this is a good illustration of the problem.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JackHill

So you gave it a pretty bad look. Please try again.

I'm sure most people didn't even look so whatever. Nothing really jumped out at me. Lots of "claims" as you point out.

Sigh... why I do even bother with people that just choose to deny the evidence.

Still waiting your explanation on how the pilots arrived hours before the expected time. Oh wait, there's none.

a reply to: JackHill

Still waiting your explanation on how the pilots arrived hours before the expected time.

Was I supposed to give you an explanation? I can barely explain how I got to work this morning.

I really don't have anything to offer on this. It doesn't look like anyone else does either. I will keep an eye on the thread and read the comments. Thanks.

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JackHill

So you gave it a pretty bad look. Please try again.

I'm sure most people didn't even look so whatever. Nothing really jumped out at me. Lots of "claims" as you point out.

Sigh... why I do even bother with people that just choose to deny the evidence.

Still waiting your explanation on how the pilots arrived hours before the expected time. Oh wait, there's none.

The evidence being a 37 year old tale [in Spanish] from South America.

I'm thinking the explanation, or thorough investigation thereof, would require more time than it took you to accept it as undeniable evidence... certainly more time than you've given Zeta who, contrary to your assertion, did not "deny" anything.

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: Scdfa

I'd ask my Space Brothers from the Pleiades what they think, but they don't believe Jadestar exists.

Oh my god. Just brilliant. Please never leave this forum.

BTW, I hope you take some time and make a thread with your experience eventually.

Could you BE any more over-the-top in your public display of slobbering affection?

BTW, many of us have also expressed this hope.

Yes. I am very interested in the details of Scdfa's story. It's a pity he spends more time in verbal jousting which references his experience than writing down the details OF his experience. Details of which may be of value in supporting his story.

In the meantime you can read about this particular case, and give us your inputs about it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The first question: is there anything left which can be tested?

For instance, in the Hill case the University of New Hampshire has the physical evidence associated with the case open for examination as part of the Hill collection.

Is there a similar repository in this case?

In the last video, the only remaining alive direct witness of the event claimed that after arriving at Buenos Aires, and after everyone knew about their UFO story, some men apprached (like 'NASA' men, it's what he claims) and asked for the clothes they were wearing and even the car. They're still frightened about what happened to them and didn't give it a second thought. They delivered everything that was asked.

Looks again like there is no evidence, at least if that is to be believed, nothing left to investigate really. There perhaps was evidence but it was again mishandled by witnesses or spirited off conveniently.

So we're back to a story which ends in supposed "NASA bogey men" and that's where they lose me, and just about any one else who needs something they can dig into to investigate.

Too damn convenient. So, no, I have nothing further to offer on this case.

When you have physical evidence then that physical evidence can be repeatedly examined (ie the Hill collection at U. New Hampshire).

When all you have is a story the only thing which can be repeatedly examined is the veracity of the story/witness and that's not a job for astrobiologists. It's a job for psychologists or criminologists or other people who are well versed in why people say and do the things they do.

At least with something like Hessdalen there is a phenomenon which has been recorded, logged, measured, examined etc for well over 20 years.

There's nothing here which science can dig into so asking a scientist for their opinion is basically asking them to speculate about what happened while also lacking data. Two things most scientists hate.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JadeStar

Is there a similar repository in this case?

I gave it a look over and it just sounds like a couple of guys that ran out of gas with a UFO story attached. sounds kind of typical really. just one for the mountain I suppose.

That's pretty much my view of it too, albeit it's just based on reading the thread.

originally posted by: TeaAndStrumpets

originally posted by: JadeStar
Didn't you, earlier in this thread, accuse scientists who are patiently waiting for conclusive data regarding extraterrestrial life of having "delusions of grandeur?"...

That scientists would be "patiently waiting for conclusive data" is the problem. Scientists are the ones who should be GETTING that conclusive data. Yet they refuse to even look.

So the question then is, who are UFOlogy's scientists these days?

Would you be interested to know there have been no less than 10 scientific studies which HAVE looked at various aspect of the UFO subject? Are you aware who was involved?

And science both outside of UFOlogy and within it HAVE tried to get conclusive data. The problem is that such data is not forthcoming. One would think with all of these reports, then UFOs would appear on 24/7 All Sky cameras which record anything which moves in the sky, day and night.

Nope.

These cameras are in all types of areas, ones at remote sites in the wilderness at places like astronomical observatories high in the deserts of Chile to suburbs in the US to within megacities like London.


Still nothing.

For all the supposed comings and goings of ET in objects lit up like Christmas trees and doing all sorts of bizarre things according to eyewitness testimony, the equipment which could log such activity doesn't.

That's a real problem for modern day UFOlogy which no one within it wants to address.

BTW: It is not the job then of the scientists OUTSIDE of UFOLOGY to gather data on something outside their field of research. It is the job of the scientists (too bad so few exist) WITHIN UFOLOGY TO GATHER SUCH DATA.

So you should be asking where is modern UFOlogy's James E. McDonald and Marjorie Fish?

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: JadeStar

The first question: is there anything left which can be tested?

For instance, in the Hill case the University of New Hampshire has the physical evidence associated with the case open for examination as part of the Hill collection.

Is there a similar repository in this case?

What sort of evidence do they have? Betty's dress?

Yes.

www.library.unh.edu...

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JackHill

So you gave it a pretty bad look. Please try again.

I'm sure most people didn't even look so whatever. Nothing really jumped out at me. Lots of "claims" as you point out.

Sigh... why I do even bother with people that just choose to deny the evidence.

Still waiting your explanation on how the pilots arrived hours before the expected time. Oh wait, there's none.

The evidence being a 37 year old tale [in Spanish] from South America.

I'm thinking the explanation, or thorough investigation thereof, would require more time than it took you to accept it as undeniable evidence... certainly more time than you've given Zeta who, contrary to your assertion, did not "deny" anything.

I've noticed a trend in UFOlogy of going further and further afield to find "mysterious" cases in places which would be more difficult to investigate.

This is a phenomena which they contend is going on daily right under everyone's nose but instead we're given cases over 30 years old and now often in remote parts of the world. What realistically can be done with that?

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: JadeStar

The first question: is there anything left which can be tested?

For instance, in the Hill case the University of New Hampshire has the physical evidence associated with the case open for examination as part of the Hill collection.

Is there a similar repository in this case?

What sort of evidence do they have? Betty's dress?

Yes.

www.library.unh.edu...

That was just a guess. Not bad, huh?

They have the sculpt of the Grey too.

originally posted by: JadeStar


Looks again like there is no evidence, at least if that is to be believed, nothing left to investigate really. There perhaps was evidence but it was again mishandled by witnesses or spirited off conveniently.

So we're back to a story which ends in supposed "NASA bogey men" and that's where they lose me, and just about any one else who needs something they can dig into to investigate.

Too damn convenient. So, no, I nothing further to offer on this case.

When you have physical evidence then that physical evidence can be repeatedly examined (ie the Hill collection at U. New Hampshire).

When all you have is a story the only thing which can be repeatedly examined is the veracity of the story/witness and that's not a job for astrobiologists. It's a job for psychologists or criminologists or other people who are well versed in why people say and do the things they do.

At least with something like Hessdalen there is a phenomenon which has been recorded, logged, measured, examined etc for well over 20 years.

There's nothing here which science can dig into so asking a scientist for their opinion is basically asking them to speculate about what happened while also lacking data. Two things most scientists hate.

Sorry, but there's plenty of evidence, witnesses are still alive. You just choose to dismiss their recollections. That's pretty irresponsible, period.

Still waiting your 'scientific' explanation about how the car travelled that distance in an impossible time.

Witnesses at the departure (damn, it was a continental rally competition!).
Witnesses at the arrival.

Oh, I forgot, 'that's impossible, therefore must be wrong, a lie, a fable' and so on.