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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
On "The Big Bang Theory", after Bernadette had gotten a high paying job with a big corporation, she said "the company I work for once invented and cured an eye disease in one month". lol.
I'd never heard the term "mouthbreather", until some company started selling little gadgets to attach to the outside of your nose during sleep. It's purpose -- to cure the "mouthbreather".
Sorry, it's what I thought about reading your OP, which is interesting by the way. At the same time, some people are born with the facial aesthetics we admire, and our society values, while others aren't. I know sleep apnea and other difficulties can be caused from the throat relaxing during sleep, so I suppose it's possible it could have some bearing on facial features as well, although I would think it would have to occur in the younger years while the body is still developing.
originally posted by: gottaknow
While I normally breathe through my nose, I have both a recessed chin, which I hate and have considered plastic surgery for as well as sleep apnea.
After reading your post, I found this article which was a very helpful read as well: www.mouthmattersbook.com...
I think myofunctional oral posture and full face orthodontics need more attention within our society and we can benefit from more awareness of these issues.
originally posted by: Scallywwagg
Interesting. My wife was born with a severe underbite - not sure if there's a medical term for it. Around the age of 8, other kids started to point it out and she had never realised there was an issue until she started a new school and the bullying became commonplace. Problems eating and swallowing added to a pretty miserable experience at school.
To cut a long story short, she started orthodontic work at 14 in preparation for an op when her bones had finished growing. She had a double osteotomy, jaw broken in 8 places, hip bone used to create cheek bones and 20 plus titanium plates in her face.
A couple of her cousins share similar issues although not as extreme but I wondered what your thoughts were.
originally posted by: cooperton
Weston Price is a boss. He also concluded that dental hygiene is only required because of the crappy food we eat - shocker. This is, at least in part, because a normal diet consisting of raw food will deposit in the gaps of your teeth and act as a natural antibiotic around your teeth (plants have natural antibiotic mechanisms). No bad breath either if you are eating raw food all the time.
Anyway, I did not hear this other side of Weston Price. I have TMJ and did not know that correct posture was tongue to the palate. I've heard people theorize that cooking enabled an advancement in hominid encephalization, but I disagree. Price's/your idea of developing oral muscles via the extensive chewing required for raw food seems much more intuitive, and this is definitely something our society/all western culture lacks today.
Very enlightening thank you.
originally posted by: Scallywwagg
a reply to: DiggerDogg
Thanks for your time. It is fascinating to think what she's had done. And funnily enough she also has a deviated septum!
Can I also ask where your interest in the overall topic came from?
*tongue is firmly pushed against the roof of mouth*
originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: DiggerDogg
Your theories on why are compelling but your value judgement of the effects seem rather misplaced to me. You cite "aesthetics" as a concern but, objectively, there is nothing more aesthetic about the first picture vs the second. The first looks like a caveman and the second looks like a "nerdy" type person. Neither are what I would consider "correct".
It's been evidenced over and over that people are inherently attracted to what is considered "average". People are drawn to others who are the most composite-like of their fellow species. If your "mouthbreather" becomes what is considered average, then that will be the new attractive.
We all have different tastes. In people, art, and everything else. Short of potential medical issues in severe examples, I see no reason for any concern. We are simply having a hand in our own evolution and this is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm confident we wouldn't recognize a human from 100 years in the future as a member of our own species.
originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: DiggerDogg
As a woman, the guy in the first picture looks more handsome but also a bit rogue-ish, a risky choice, looks possibly prone to violence whereas the second guy looks weaker and less physically attractive but possibly a safer option, perhaps more inclined to monogamy and a stable career.
As civilisation in the West is more geared towards attributes other than purely physical, the choices made in mating and procreating affects the evolutionary attributes. My own preference is men that are good looking with a decent jawline that flows nicely with their face, and isn't too wide or thuggish. Complementary genetics is also a factor, my chin isn't very big and my face isn't all that long compared to some women, though not round like others, and I generally have never fancied round faced, small chinned men, perhaps it is due to subconsciously looking for attributes that mixed with mine result in producing attractive children.
originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: DiggerDogg
It seems to me as I remember my jaw changing when I was about 14 that the key factor isn't somethings as "iffy" as allergies, but simple dental factors. I distinctly remember thinking about how I shouldhave held my jaw versus how my lower teeth met up behind the uppers (technically, an "overbite). Supposedly, they should both met at the same bite point. Mine don't and I suspect, many don't in white folks.
If I were to hold my jaw to where the teeth do met at the bite point (tips of both sets touching) I would have an aggressive jaw and chin. I'm quite sure that I could have maintained that position if I had made the conscious decision to do so but I did not.
Actually, to project one's jaw outward beyond the normal position is seen as a determined, aggressive move by psychological standards, not unknown to most of us. Might it not be simply a gained trait (culturally derived) of physical expression of some humans?