What to do when you've lost your religion?

a reply to: SSFFlood

Hey yall, im coming to you all with a question, how do you find your religion? i was raised Catholic by my grandmother and mother, my father is druid and my last 2 girlfriends were pagan, my current gf is a witch. i lost my religion along time ago after some traumatic events. but now i've been asking people in my life what to do, im lost. im not sure what to believe anymore.

Maybe you have the wrong idea about religion. I have never understood what people on this website mean when they talk about losing their religion. In the context that you've phrased the question I take religion to mean, a particular system of faith and worship. You cannot lose the understanding of a religion that you've been involved with you can only decide that you think the claims made by the religion are untrue. My suggestion...quite looking for the religion that makes you happy and search for what is true.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Probably one of the few times I agree with you...

Good call...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

God(s) is just a figment of man's imagination.

You have no more proof of that than the man that believes that God exists. Why are you always so desperate to convert people to your religion of Atheism? You are an Atheist Extremist and are just as bad as the people you condescendingly mock. You are a religious zealot of non-belief.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: SSFFlood

Hey yall, im coming to you all with a question, how do you find your religion? i was raised Catholic by my grandmother and mother, my father is druid and my last 2 girlfriends were pagan, my current gf is a witch. i lost my religion along time ago after some traumatic events. but now i've been asking people in my life what to do, im lost. im not sure what to believe anymore.

Maybe you have the wrong idea about religion. I have never understood what people on this website mean when they talk about losing their religion. In the context that you've phrased the question I take religion to mean, a particular system of faith and worship. You cannot lose the understanding of a religion that you've been involved with you can only decide that you think the claims made by the religion are untrue. My suggestion...quite looking for the religion that makes you happy and search for what is true.

Exactly.

People equate religion as being the three big ones (even though Judaism isn't the biggest in the world). They don't understand that the definition of religion is this:

1. The belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers, regarded as creating and governing the universe. respect for religion.
2. A particular variety of such belief, especially when organized into a system of doctrine and practice. the world's many religions.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader

Anything is a religion as long as there are beliefs that are practiced. That is why atheism is a religion because the central tenet practiced is "be nice to each other".

They must believe atheism to be correct because they can't disbelieve atheism. Therefore, their disbelief in God is not really disbelief, it is a choice. They can't say "atheism is absolute" if they do not believe there are absolutes.

The OP is seeking spiritual help. The non-confessors of religion have suggested the OP seek a thought system that has no absolutes, which means no absolute truth, no absolute morality, no absolute standards.

Atheism cannot even say in itself there is any truth, therefore atheism cannot be true.

Sam Harris, a leading spiritual leader of atheism says this

In his book Letter to a Christian Nation, Sam Harris wrote: In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist". We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.

And the noises made are this "we don't want to believe", but they cannot ever say they absolutely do not believe, because there are no absolutes to them. If they say their non-belief is absolute, then it becomes belief and faith in that absolute.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

God(s) is just a figment of man's imagination.

You have no more proof of that than the man that believes that God exists. Why are you always so desperate to convert people to your religion of Atheism? You are an Atheist Extremist and are just as bad as the people you condescendingly mock. You are a religious zealot of non-belief.

You're right I don't have proof of that claim, but the circumstantial evidence is just overwhelming in favor of it being true. Not to say that there isn't some creator type out there, it just isn't concerned with our (humans') day to day goings on. The circumstances and inconsistencies that would have to be true (why is evolution so haphazard if it is a directed process?) in order for the opposite to be true are just too much.

I'm not atheist by the way.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

God(s) is just a figment of man's imagination.

You have no more proof of that than the man that believes that God exists. Why are you always so desperate to convert people to your religion of Atheism? You are an Atheist Extremist and are just as bad as the people you condescendingly mock. You are a religious zealot of non-belief.

You're right I don't have proof of that claim, but the circumstantial evidence is just overwhelming in favor of it being true. Not to say that there isn't some creator type out there, it just isn't concerned with our (humans') day to day goings on. The circumstances and inconsistencies that would have to be true (why is evolution so haphazard if it is a directed process?) in order for the opposite to be true are just too much.

I'm not atheist by the way.

Oh no, as Paul said to the Greek philosophers "as your own poets have said". In Him I live and move and have my being.

I know this is true. God is concerned with our very lives, day to day. But God gives us free will to reject Him,and if one rejects, God doesn't force Himself onto people who don't want Him. God then has to remove Himself from them.

But God is still concerned.

And the theory of evolution is just a theory.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

God(s) is just a figment of man's imagination.

You have no more proof of that than the man that believes that God exists. Why are you always so desperate to convert people to your religion of Atheism? You are an Atheist Extremist and are just as bad as the people you condescendingly mock. You are a religious zealot of non-belief.

You're right I don't have proof of that claim, but the circumstantial evidence is just overwhelming in favor of it being true. Not to say that there isn't some creator type out there, it just isn't concerned with our (humans') day to day goings on. The circumstances and inconsistencies that would have to be true (why is evolution so haphazard if it is a directed process?) in order for the opposite to be true are just too much.

I'm not atheist by the way.

Oh no, as Paul said to the Greek philosophers "as your own poets have said". In Him I live and move and have my being.

I know this is true. God is concerned with our very lives, day to day. But God gives us free will to reject Him,and if one rejects, God doesn't force Himself onto people who don't want Him. God then has to remove Himself from them.

But God is still concerned.

Humans aren't the only thing in the universe. Everything from the weather to celestial objects in the sky have been attributed to god's hand in the past, only for science to show how things actually work. God can exist, but only within the gaps in science. Maybe as those gaps narrow down further and further, we can find evidence of the divine, but for now none exists.

And the theory of evolution is just a theory.

You're right it IS just a theory, and everything that the scientific definition of a theory entails. Similar to the theory of Gravity for instance.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

God(s) is just a figment of man's imagination.

You have no more proof of that than the man that believes that God exists. Why are you always so desperate to convert people to your religion of Atheism? You are an Atheist Extremist and are just as bad as the people you condescendingly mock. You are a religious zealot of non-belief.

You're right I don't have proof of that claim, but the circumstantial evidence is just overwhelming in favor of it being true. Not to say that there isn't some creator type out there, it just isn't concerned with our (humans') day to day goings on. The circumstances and inconsistencies that would have to be true (why is evolution so haphazard if it is a directed process?) in order for the opposite to be true are just too much.

I'm not atheist by the way.

Oh no, as Paul said to the Greek philosophers "as your own poets have said". In Him I live and move and have my being.

I know this is true. God is concerned with our very lives, day to day. But God gives us free will to reject Him,and if one rejects, God doesn't force Himself onto people who don't want Him. God then has to remove Himself from them.

But God is still concerned.

Humans aren't the only thing in the universe. Everything from the weather to celestial objects in the sky have been attributed to god's hand in the past, only for science to show how things actually work. God can exist, but only within the gaps in science. Maybe as those gaps narrow down further and further, we can find evidence of the divine, but for now none exists.

And the theory of evolution is just a theory.

You're right it IS just a theory, and everything that the scientific definition of a theory entails. Similar to the theory of Gravity for instance.

What does this even mean?

God can exist, but only within the gaps in science.

Science isn't an exact science, you only think it is.

Science is not an institution, science is merely the study of how things work. Any scientist can include God in all their study or in none of their study.

I think you put too much faith in scientists whom you approve of because they offer you interpretations for your shared world view.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
You're right it IS just a theory, and everything that the scientific definition of a theory entails. Similar to the theory of Gravity for instance.

What does this even mean?

If you have to ask then you just admitted your ignorance on the subject. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
What is a Scientific Theory?

Science isn't an exact science, you only think it is.

Science is not an institution, science is merely the study of how things work. Any scientist can include God in all their study or in none of their study.

I'm not saying science is correct; I'm saying that it is the answer with the highest probability of being correct since we have evidence backing it up. The best part about science is that it continually allows itself to update and be MORE correct as we learn new things.

I think you put too much faith in scientists whom you approve of because they offer you interpretations for your shared world view.

I think you don't know what you are talking about here and are transposing your idea of faith onto science when you don't understand what science is and says. I don't NEED science to be correct. I don't NEED science at all. If it is wrong or disappeared tomorrow, I'd be fine and in the same way mentally. It is just an efficient way to explain the universe. That's all.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: WarminIndy
You're right it IS just a theory, and everything that the scientific definition of a theory entails. Similar to the theory of Gravity for instance.

What does this even mean?

If you have to ask then you just admitted your ignorance on the subject. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
What is a Scientific Theory?

Science isn't an exact science, you only think it is.

Science is not an institution, science is merely the study of how things work. Any scientist can include God in all their study or in none of their study.

I'm not saying science is correct; I'm saying that it is the answer with the highest probability of being correct since we have evidence backing it up. The best part about science is that it continually allows itself to update and be MORE correct as we learn new things.

I think you put too much faith in scientists whom you approve of because they offer you interpretations for your shared world view.

I think you don't know what you are talking about here and are transposing your idea of faith onto science when you don't understand what science is and says. I don't NEED science to be correct. I don't NEED science at all. If it is wrong or disappeared tomorrow, I'd be fine and in the same way mentally. It is just an efficient way to explain the universe. That's all.

I asked you what you meant...not what science means.

You do have faith in scientists who share your world view, because you said

I don't NEED science to be correct. I don't NEED science at all. If it is wrong or disappeared tomorrow, I'd be fine and in the same way mentally. It is just an efficient way to explain the universe. That's all.

If it is efficient enough to explain the universe and you promote it, then you need it to efficiently explain the universe to you.

But science isn't explaining anything, only the scientists are.

I don't NEED science to be correct.

So you don't need science when you need it to efficiently explain the universe?

Which scientists do you actually trust that share your world view? They are scientists, right? They follow scientific method, right?

Therefore, you have needed a scientist to explain the universe to you.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
I asked you what you meant...not what science means.

I'm trying to show you that you when you say "it's just a theory" you look uninformed and ignorant on the subject. Being "just a theory" can only be true if you hold other scientific theories to the same degree, because scientific theories are precisely defined with precise requires that need to be fulfilled in order to call it a theory.

If it is efficient enough to explain the universe and you promote it, then you need it to efficiently explain the universe to you.

See. This is where you are missing the point. I don't NEED hedge trimmers to trim a bush, I could do it with scissors. I use them because they are the most efficient tool available to do the job. If a better tool came along tomorrow, I'd want to use that instead.

So you don't need science when you need it to efficiently explain the universe?

I just use science to sate my curiosity as that is what it is intended. I like and study history and math for similar reasons. Stop saying that I'm saying that I need them, because I don't. They are just a tool to occupy my time on this planet until I die.

Which scientists do you actually trust that share your world view? They are scientists, right? They follow scientific method, right?

I don't trust scientists. They are humans. I employ the scientific method and part of the scientific method is the peer review process. As humans can be notoriously stubborn, I also allow that certain things and concepts may take a while to be overturned, but you would be lying to say that science hasn't greatly increased man's knowledge of the universe. We may not know it all, but we can SAY that we have harnessed it to make life easier for us. So we have to be getting SOME things correct. After all, your computer isn't going to explode tomorrow because the theory of electricity is wrong.

Therefore, you have needed a scientist to explain the universe to you.

Scientific consensus isn't the same as a preacher telling you how things works. You are trying to create a parallel here and it just isn't working.

Rejoice and enjoy your new found freedom.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

As long as you don't run with hedge clippers or scissors, you can put an eye out that way.

ETA:

Scientific consensus isn't the same as a preacher telling you how things works.

Actually, scientific consensus IS telling you how things work.

Scientific consensus

For example, researchers will necessarily interpret their results based on what the consensus in their field is.

So they interpret according to the consensus....

And this

The existence of a consensus simply shapes the discussion. In the same way, research goals and grants are set based on areas where the consensus opinion seems a bit weak or has unanswered questions.

Hmm, so if they interpret according to consensus by funding money into where the weak opinion is, to bolster the consensus, then the interpretation might not be correct..including evolution.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I said that scientific consensus isn't the same as a preacher telling you how things work not that scientific consensus doesn't tell you how things work.

Hmm, so if they interpret according to consensus by funding money into where the weak opinion is, to bolster the consensus, then the interpretation might not be correct..including evolution.

Of course it might not be correct. That is the POINT. Fallibility. But that doesn't mean you can discredit a theory just because you PERSONALLY find it wrong. You need to overcome the evidence in favor of the theory first.

I had the Catholic background and then went into the protestant route, but in the end, found myself too aware of the way the religions are.

I pray, meditate, seek within the Spirit that guides me, and call Source, the Highest Love and Goodness Beyond all codes/traps and conditions on earth or in the cosmos even. The True Highest Goodness, the Tao/Waters of True Love.

And then you find, spiritual and religion are two different things although some religious are also spiritual.

Goodness never leaves your side here in the tests.

We have a wonderful Family and there are Great Hero's watching over. We are seeds of Great Trees as well, beings that have been hijacked in religion to serve Rome, the Masons, but who are really not that at all, but Serve and Protect expressions of God/Goodness/Love with us, such as Michael, Jaliel/Josephiel and Zadkiel. Though in reality Michael may be a code for many things, but Jaliel and Zadkiel, believe thats their real name, and have only Michael as the name of their Teammate.

We have Hero's overhead, and there is a Spirit of Peace and Love/Goodness that connects and Empowers all Consciousness, thats what I call Mom/Dad/God.

a reply to: Unity_99

I have not met the El-ohim in this lifetime so I have no knowledge if they exists or not, but I do look forward to meeting them if they do exist as individuals .



Any blessed one is a sister or brother.

Namaste.

OP, you are embarking on an exciting journey, and it feels disorienting...like when a high-school grad leaves his hometown to go to college....

so - treat this experience like going to school (which I believe life is, anyway - a school for our spirits)....

I agree with Serdgiam - for me, books did the trick. Don't be 'afraid' to explore, compare and contrast, look at history, etc.

Two books that helped me a great deal are:

A History of God: From Abraham to the Present: The 4,000 year Quest for God by Karen Armstrong (link is a PDF version of the entire book)

and The Evolution of God by Robert Wright.

The second one is more fun to read, so I'd start with that one. It does not negate the concept of a Higher Power, but explains how religion evolved along with humankind's known development. He's funny without being disrespectful, and you'll get a great 'comparative religion' basis from it.

Karen Armstrong was a Catholic nun, so her frame of reference will match your own (Catholic upbringing). Her book is more scholarly and in parts dry reading, but it is jam-packed FULL of the history of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam).

It's fine to open your mind to learning...don't feel intimidated into kowtowing to those who are projecting "failure" onto you. You are fine - you are on your OWN path in that forest, just as we all are. No matter what, you can always "go back" to the beginning if you get too uneasy, but I highly recommend blazing your own trail until you get OUT of the forest. Those who have come out the other side can't help you through that forest, but they can "call out" directional ideas. Those who are IN the forest but on their own path can't help you through it either. But they, too, might "cross" your path occasionally and give their own experience to you.

In the end, we all walk our own path. It makes us stronger.

Best wishes, brightest blessings, and fare well! You are on your way up the mountain.

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. — Hindu Proverb

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
-- Buddha - Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

You'll be fine. You're exactly where you are meant to be (according to your own life), and you will survive.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Well you'll notice that the amount of post from me has diminished over the years. This is simply due to the fact that the majority of members on this website are not interested in what is objectively true, but rather what "truth" suits them best. I would describe them as willingly ignorant. Its like trying to discuss Calculus with someone who hasn't even had Multiplication its just not gonna work.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

And since the OP asked for a broad range of views, I did ask if he wanted the Christian response. My answer was simply to seek God.

I didn't say seek Christianity or any other religion, only to seek God. And that seeking for God is the age old human endeavor. Unfortunately when a Christian says that, it somehow must mean that the God of Christians is limited to only the Christians.

We have merely defined what we feel our expectations for how we conduct our lives. I think you know me enough by now to know that I would never feel compelled to place anyone under bondage to traditions that might not work. I didn't say go back to the Catholic church or follow paganism, because somehow those failed him.

But when I say seek God, I mean seek the ONE of all spiritual truth. Even if one does not have a Bible it does not mean God can't exist outside of it. In fact, many people have come to know God when they were illiterate or didn't have access to any religious texts.

You say God is a force in the universe, I say God is a force in the universe, only that I believe the force also has a personality.

Seeking the spiritual is as old as mankind, all religions have that intrinsically. The old tales of the wise old hermit, same thing, seeking the spiritual.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I understand. Still, I think you are showing a defensiveness that is uncharacteristic of you, and that you are projecting "feelings" and "thoughts" onto the OP that are not warranted.

Being confused and overwhelmed by new information and alternative ways of thinking does not equal "depression" or "a cry for help" in the manner that you perceived it.