September 11: The New Pearl Harbor [Video]

a reply to: Shadow Herder

Its their job, apparently.

Best to ignore them - dont feed the trolls. That way there is some hope of a legitimate discussion.

The main irrefutable problem for Trusters, is the fact that in 3 secs measurable elapsed time, no deceleration can be measured from a point on top of the WTC1N Tower, when it started to collapse. THREE seconds in a NATURAL collapse is an ETERNITY. Deceleration should have been shown within the FIRST second already.

Which shows it was NOT a natural collapse. Every natural collapse that proceeds through its own underlaying structure will show deceleration in the first second, it has nothing to do with what type of building is observed.
And that's why we, conspiracy facts collectors, strongly Doubt the official stories.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
A life long geologist and seismologist expert explains why the seismic signals from the WTC grounds indicate that it were explosions that were registered by LDEO.

Plus my seismic posts links.
And a link to Major Tom's impressive, comprehensive 9/11 collection (Former JREF top poster, now disgruntled with JREF, which changed its site name b.t.w. )
And the discussion about Charles M. Beck's three papers from Cornell Uni.

arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0609/0609105v8.pdf
Charles M. Beck; Title : Mathematical Models of Progressive Collapse.
REFUTE THAT.

Found those posts of mine back in this post.

Thread title : The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ANALYSIS of the events of 9/11.
Do read also from that thread its pages 14 to 25 about the Beck papers.
Perhaps you get interested enough to read that full thread. (For the doubting readers. Hardcore Trusters show time and time again, they do not read our links with an open mind)

Found those posts back in ATS Search ( www.abovetopsecret.com... )
By using the words " labtop Charles M. Beck "
Beck wrote three papers by the way, all advisable to read and understand. Links are in my posts in that thread.

a reply to: Beaux

I too was old enough to see and understand the JFK lie and have studied and read much on it over the decades from those who were there. Even the MSM prints that over 80% of Americans believe that the job was "a conspiracy" (even Lyndon Johnson):

www.youtube.com...

but the point that the debunkers of all these events are paid for is to drag out the disclosure and eventual acceptance by the general public over a long enough period of time to a point where they don't really give a damn when it becomes common knowledge. Debunkers love to state that if it was a conspiracy someone would come out and spill the beans, and then convenient forget that many DO come out and have spoken what really happened. How many were murdered over the JFK assassination and how many were silenced or ignored on the 911 job? The shills will convince NO ONE that cares and knows, but they WILL stall those who don't care or who are easily distracted and that is what they are paid to do.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
a reply to: Beaux

I too was old enough to see and understand the JFK lie and have studied and read much on it over the decades from those who were there. Even the MSM prints that over 80% of Americans believe that the job was "a conspiracy" (even Lyndon Johnson):

www.youtube.com...

but the point that the debunkers of all these events are paid for is to drag out the disclosure and eventual acceptance by the general public over a long enough period of time to a point where they don't really give a damn when it becomes common knowledge. Debunkers love to state that if it was a conspiracy someone would come out and spill the beans, and then convenient forget that many DO come out and have spoken what really happened. How many were murdered over the JFK assassination and how many were silenced or ignored on the 911 job? The shills will convince NO ONE that cares and knows, but they WILL stall those who don't care or who are easily distracted and that is what they are paid to do.

Requesting actual proof of a crackpot theory does not make one "a debunker." It makes one critical-minded and is in line with the site mantra of denying ignorance. Believing something to be true simply because you want it to be true is not denying ignorance. Sure, 2200 engineers are on board with 9/11 Truth. However, that is a TINY percentage of the 143,000 members of the society to which those 2200 belong. A strong majority do not for one moment believe in the 9/11 conspiracy. . .

a reply to: jaffo

It is apparent that you have never served in the military because "crackpot" theory is what we specialized in and still do today. Most people do not believe ANY official story that comes out because every American everywhere understands that the government lies for a living and cannot be trusted to ever be honest with us. What the majority of Americans feel about such issues is simply apathy, they don't give a damn. They are more concerned with opening day at Shea, or choosing their next vacation destination, if in fact they can even afford one. People do not believe, they just don't care, and THAT is the ace in the hole that you have in your hand sir.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
a reply to: jaffo

It is apparent that you have never served in the military because "crackpot" theory is what we specialized in and still do today. Most people do not believe ANY official story that comes out because every American everywhere understands that the government lies for a living and cannot be trusted to ever be honest with us. What the majority of Americans feel about such issues is simply apathy, they don't give a damn. They are more concerned with opening day at Shea, or choosing their next vacation destination, if in fact they can even afford one. People do not believe, they just don't care, and THAT is the ace in the hole that you have in your hand sir.

Ah, so I guess you follow no professional sports, never go shopping, and don't even own a TV, right? Or is YOUR level of enjoying your life the perfect amount and what everyone else does is stupid? Seems pretty judgmental and full of ad hominem to me, sir. . .

Amazing the people in the people in power in the relevant offices who presided over the 911 murders, such as the military leaders, WHERE ALL PROMOTED!


This odious fact is in the first video

a reply to: jaffo

I am more of a Non nobis Domine, non nobis Domine, sed nomine tuo da gloriam kind of guy. I spent many decades as a Green Bay Packer fan but am still protesting the treatment they gave Brett Favre and only watch occasionally. But you are correct I do not have television service any longer because there was simply nothing I cared to view. I do civic service through a local church, though I am not a member and serve the Township Committee and am currently on the ballot to get back onto it. We all have our own ways of entertaining ourselves and to each his own, but not to the point of distraction I would say.

If you are a regular person that chooses to believe what you will about the events we are discussing here, by all means you are entitled to you own opinion. If you are paid to debunk that is fine too because after all, we all have to pay the bills. I am in the unfortunate position of having been schooled in the design of steel structures for many years and while neither you or most others have ever had reason to crack open the AISC Steel Construction Manual to find out the modulus of elasticity of steel is 29,000 kips per square in, I made my living doing such work. In school we even had the good fortune to operate instrumentation that caused failure in steel structures so that we could study the fractures and analyze the ways in which the force vectors imparted loads throughout the structure which caused such failures. Having experienced what I have been fortunate enough to have seen, including managing the maintenance department in a steel forging and fabrication plant, I can say with conviction and even with professional authority that what I saw on 11 Sep 01 was simply impossible and will leave it at that. I understand that most people will have NO comprehension of the whys and how, nor should they and that believing the "story" is really the best way for them to get to sleep every night. In fact, they probably should not even question why. But when you come to a site like this where things like this are the order of the day, well you get what you get.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
a reply to: jaffo

I am more of a Non nobis Domine, non nobis Domine, sed nomine tuo da gloriam kind of guy. I spent many decades as a Green Bay Packer fan but am still protesting the treatment they gave Brett Favre and only watch occasionally. But you are correct I do not have television service any longer because there was simply nothing I cared to view. I do civic service through a local church, though I am not a member and serve the Township Committee and am currently on the ballot to get back onto it. We all have our own ways of entertaining ourselves and to each his own, but not to the point of distraction I would say.

If you are a regular person that chooses to believe what you will about the events we are discussing here, by all means you are entitled to you own opinion. If you are paid to debunk that is fine too because after all, we all have to pay the bills. I am in the unfortunate position of having been schooled in the design of steel structures for many years and while neither you or most others have ever had reason to crack open the AISC Steel Construction Manual to find out the modulus of elasticity of steel is 29,000 kips per square in, I made my living doing such work. In school we even had the good fortune to operate instrumentation that caused failure in steel structures so that we could study the fractures and analyze the ways in which the force vectors imparted loads throughout the structure which caused such failures. Having experienced what I have been fortunate enough to have seen, including managing the maintenance department in a steel forging and fabrication plant, I can say with conviction and even with professional authority that what I saw on 11 Sep 01 was simply impossible and will leave it at that. I understand that most people will have NO comprehension of the whys and how, nor should they and that believing the "story" is really the best way for them to get to sleep every night. In fact, they probably should not even question why. But when you come to a site like this where things like this are the order of the day, well you get what you get.

The official version of events is not "a story." It is what actually happened. Guys on YouTube claiming expertise (that is NOT a shot at you, sir) are telling stories. . . for profit. THEY are the ones milking this for money, not the imagined "professional debunkers" or "shills" as they are called around here. I am paid to practice law, not to debunk or shill for anyone, thanks much. But kudos for your devotion to public service and to each their own. After all, it's a free Country.

Well.....after watching all of the footage.....i gotta say they ask some really good questions

Some of the main points they give are hard to refute......especially about the Towers collapsing

I see that this topic never fails to bring out the professional debunkers....Jaffo...dude you are funny

A good job a trying to distract and give doubt ....

have you actually watched the footage....you and the others?

I feel sorry for those who don't question the OS.....shame on you

originally posted by: panicman66
Well.....after watching all of the footage.....i gotta say they ask some really good questions

Some of the main points they give are hard to refute......especially about the Towers collapsing

I see that this topic never fails to bring out the professional debunkers....Jaffo...dude you are funny

A good job a trying to distract and give doubt ....

have you actually watched the footage....you and the others?

I feel sorry for those who don't question the OS.....shame on you

Have I actually watched the footage? Are you kidding me? Yeah, I watched it just like we all have. Raising questions IS NOT proving ANYTHING. It's just that simple. Gah, these 9/11 threads are such a colossal waste of time and space, lol. . .

a reply to: jaffo

Everyone, well mostly, else in this thread are trying to have a discussion. You're trying to push your side of the event as truth using buzzwords like "fact" and "science" as well as a litany of fallacious tactics to disengage curious members. It's an odd behavior to say the least. It's like the Official Story is your favorite baseball team and it can do no wrong. I bet you like the Yankees too

originally posted by: bobbypurify
a reply to: jaffo

Everyone, well mostly, else in this thread are trying to have a discussion. You're trying to push your side of the event as truth using buzzwords like "fact" and "science" as well as a litany of fallacious tactics to disengage curious members. It's an odd behavior to say the least. It's like the Official Story is your favorite baseball team and it can do no wrong. I bet you like the Yankees too

I know, I know. Guys like you hate facts and science. You'd rather push speculation and theory as truth, when they clearly are not. And no, you are not interested in a conversation or a dialogue. You are only interested in people who agree with you and standing around high fiving each other about how much smarter than everyone else you are. Sorry, the facts are in and the facts and the science show very clearly what happened that day. Speculation lost, yet again. . .

a reply to: jaffo

It might be different if we had a government that wasn't known as habitual liars, thieves and sellouts. I speak with many people during the course our my day and have never heard one in years say anything but the fact that they are not capable of lying and lining their own pockets. When your "leadership" is this foul and this corrupted, there is NOTHING they can say that can be believed. Official reports become offal reports with "commissions" run by only the sleaziest of the sellouts.

originally posted by: Greathouse

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Helious

The source would not allow me to copy so I took a screen grab.

That describes it as a unusual circumstance. For load values are you making the claim that that building didn't have any steel or the World Trade Center's didn't have any concrete? Lol

Because splitting hairs on that statement is ridiculous.

Here let's just cut to the chase.

One of the arguments that have been raised over the years by members of the 9/11 Truth Movement in regards to the collapse of the three WTC buildings is that they were the first steel-framed high-rise skyscrapers in history to collapse because of fire. Indeed, in all of the history of structural engineering, not a single steel-framed skyscraper has ever totally collapsed due to fire [1]. However, in an attempt to invalidate this argument, numerous defenders of the official story of 9/11 have pointed out that there are several smaller steel structures that have collapsed due to fire. Journalist Chris Mohr, for example, cited numerous steel structures in his recent debate with architect Richard Gage [2]. Here are the most often cited steel structures that have collapsed due to fire (Chris Mohr referenced the first six in his debate with Richard Gage):

• Site and Sound Theater
• McCormick Place
• Kader Toy Factory
• Mumbai High North Platform
• Interstate 580
• World Trade Center 5
• Dogwood Elementary School
• Windsor Tower
• Faculty of Architecture Building

Here I will show why these structures cannot be justifiably used as comparisons to the WTC buildings, based on the estimated damage parameters and fire severity for these structures.

source


14Th

Can add Interstate 78 in Newark NJ - 1989 trash fire under an elevated section warped the steel supports and caused the
road to buckle

www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: fireladdie

A collapse is one thing but something disintegrating into ashes is something else


Also no one has ever explained the collapse of building 7


You know that big skyscraper that fell down and they decided not to even mention in the 911 official report.


BTW Funny you mention this highway.

I was on Route 78 in NJ the day of 911.

I actually road raged and chased a guy in Somerset county NJ almost all the way to Pennsylvania the morning of 911 before it happend

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: fireladdie

A collapse is one thing but something disintegrating into ashes is something else

What disintegrated into "ash"? What was the composition of the "ash?

You know that big skyscraper that fell down and they decided not to even mention in the 911 official report.

www.nist.gov...

So once again a truther is shown to have done no research, and been shown to be wrong! No surprises here!

originally posted by: SheopleNation
Building 7 was purposely brought down. Whether that plays into the conspiracy theories or not, nothing whatsoever can change the fact that it was purposely brought down in a professional demolition manner. ~$heopleNation

Case closed then hey, thanks for clearing that up.

I agree by the way.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: FlyingFox

One of the most curious happenings was the (supposed) phone calls from the planes. You cannot get a cell signal at altitude,

It was not a cell phone.
It was the seat back phones used in airliners.
Huge difference.

Either way, the notion of passengers passing around an air phone in the middle of a bloody hijack is pretty silly.

We should apply the standard that, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The claim of demolition is not fully supported (pun intended) by the "evidence" presented. I hate 911 on it's face and think a lot of bad things were afoot, but again, the loaded planes, structural damage and subsequent fires were plenty to cause failure.

Heck, why does the steel have fireproofing anyway? I tend to think it's necessary in case of a normal office fire. Here, it was stripped off, 1000s of gallons of AV gas saturated the floors, PLUS the structural damage...come on!