Putin's Propaganda Machine.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

which brings us way back to early in the thread.

do you think there is any such thing as a media organisation without an agenda?

seriously. what lies are these you think the russian population is being told?

link me to a mainstream russian news source.

the only lies shown so far is the western media regarding the current validity of the current ukrainian government.

afaik the Minsk ii agreement permits russian peacekeepers in donetsk. that is not the same thing as ukrainian born Russians turning Facist racist expletives into chowder.

the only people here that seem taken in by propoganda seem to have English as a first and only language.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

which brings us way back to early in the thread.

do you think there is any such thing as a media organisation without an agenda?

seriously. what lies are these you think the russian population is being told?

link me to a mainstream russian news source.

the only lies shown so far is the western media regarding the current validity of the current ukrainian government.

afaik the Minsk ii agreement permits russian peacekeepers in donetsk. that is not the same thing as ukrainian born Russians turning Facist racist expletives into chowder.

the only people here that seem taken in by propoganda seem to have English as a first and only language.

You really have to stop using Russian media as your news source? No where in the minsk agreements does it give the right to Russia to send peace keepers. Which would be ironic since they are the ones fighting with Ukraine. But please show me where the agreement gave the right for Russian peacekeepers. You just make stuff up dont you? In fact Ukraine asked for UN peacekeepers and of course Russia vetoed it surprise there huh? As for the Nazi thing the pro Russian group is run By nazis and supported by Putin. He sent Nazis in to Ukraine and put them in charge of the separatists.The best you have is right sektor no political power and a couple of thousand at best. Nazis have infiltrated every facet of Russian society long before this started. Ans of course they were doing the same in Ukraine with Putins backing. What he didnt count on is they would turn against him the bond between Russian nazis and Ukrainian nazis wasnt as strong as he thought. First and foremost they were nationalists and gave them an opportunity to come out from the shadows. The nationalist movement in Ukraine will make gains as this war progresses. War tends to galvanize people into a patriotic frenzy look at Russia you even question Putin and your attacked.

As of right not the national socialists lost badly in the last election. They have no voice in government decisions however i can see if things dont change the next time they could get a considerable portion of the votes. And if that happens Russia is in trouble.The far right groups in Ukraine have advocated using terrorism in Russia. They will supply the chechens they will make terrorist attacks and it will get very bloody for Russians. The other part Putin didnt consider is hes armed these cheapens they are getting combat experience and eventually they will be going home. If this ended in Ukraine give it 3 months and There will be a war. Through in the fighters which will return from Syria and Putin will have his hands full. Only this time he wont be able to bomb them into submission like last time. When these people see the horrors of war they no longer care about Russia bombing women and children in markets they have seen far worse. So this time him attacking civilians will not have the same effect.

a reply to: dragonridr

you really need to start using sources period.

point 3:
Decentralisation of power, including through the adoption of the Ukrainian law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts".

->decoded = they can ask the Russians for help and the Russians can give it.

we already have a nice. sourced. non russian description of the situation on the previous page.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

->Published on 19 Dec 2014

I agree, Lets recap some basic facts from the thread. (perhaps I should of said "for" western propoganda

I'd of posted more of your opinions, but I couldn't find any sources for them.

UK revokes Iranian network's license
edition.cnn.com...

UK head of state has Dementia and Incontinence.
au.ibtimes.com...

BBC write up of the events in the Ukraine.
www.bbc.co.uk...


.Sergey Glazyev, has one of his interviews translated into English
nationalinterest.org...

Russian mobilisation order from that presentation, 27th June 2014
graph.document.kremlin.ru...

"official" rule in the Ukraine now seems to be held by really bad people with guns.

guys like this

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Ukraine’s neo-Nazi leader becomes top military adviser, legalizes fighters

Ukraine crisis: Tension over rise of nationalist Yarosh

R ight Sector negotiates joining Ukrainian Army as independent division under Yarosh command

War with Russia Now Much Likelier: Ukraine’s Leading Nazi Dimitri Yarosh Gets American Weapons and Support

Interpol puts Ukrainian ultranationalist Yarosh on wanted list

Press freedom in russia
en.m.wikipedia.org...


___
And move a little into the probable future
www.smh.com.au...

telling us about the dreams you had isn't exactly useful.

a reply to: mSparks43
Again infatuated with one group who has a couple of thousand members. Started by Russia by the way they were huge Putin supporters until he invaded Ukraine. But that aside Again you still need to show Right sector or there volunteer group has any political power you haven't done that have you? Why because they lost the big in the election couldnt even get enough votes to get a seat in the Rada. So basically they have no power other than sending Russians home in body bags seems like they are really good at that. So now lets have some fun lets look at Russia and its Nazi groups shall we.

According to Zisels, neo-Nazi organisations – which have prospered in Russia for over 20 years, and fuel tensions in the country after the fall of the Soviet Union – are now operating in Ukraine after being active in Moldova and Georgia.

Zisels says the most powerful far-right unit is the Russian National Unity (RNU) movement, led by ultra-nationalist Aleksandr Barkashov.Barkashov visited Ukraine twice this year, in March and May, and is currently based in Donetsk.

This paramilitary organisation, which advocates the expulsion of non-Russians from the country, was founded in 1990. Its red-and-white emblem resembles the swastika icon used by the German Nazi party in the 1930s and 1940s.

And of course here we have Putin snuggling up to everyone favorite fascist in Moscow.

Aleksandr Dupin - philosopher and Russian ultranationalist - is said to have close connections to the Kremlin and Russian military

Oh least we forget Strelkov yes you guessed it a Nazi sent to Ukraine to head the separatists well at least until the press figured out he was a NAZI and well all those killings he did of locals.Putin had to tell him to go back home real shame hes such a nice guy with the torture and killings.

Dugin is also one of the greatest supporters of Igor Strelkov, the charismatic separatist leader who recently resigned from his ministry of defence post in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

So les look at national unity day in Moscow shall we funny Russia being anti nazi look at all the Nazi iconography in the parade wow let me guess there Ukrainians in disguise right?

www.vocativ.com...

Russian Neo-Nazis Fighting for Moscow in Ukraine, Ukrainian Jewish Leader Says

www.interpretermag.com...


So lets look a bit more Putin appears to think its ok for Nazis to beat gays in the street. Nice to see Putin agrees with there philosophies. Hail Putin

In an astounding claim, the Russian government yesterday defended a neo-Nazi group for orchestrating nearly 1,500 mostly-anti-gay kidnappings across Russia in the past 18 months.

americablog.com...

Now i can come up with lots of pages and pictures but its sort of redundant you get the idea Putin sent Nazis into Ukraine and they are pervasive throughout the Russian government. Got to love Putin Nazis fighting for Russia good fighting for Ukraine bad.

Now we can move on to Europe its been all over the news how Putin is financing fascists all over Europe even giving them loans nice guy huh? Ms Le Pen complained this week that it was “scandalous” that no French bank would provide loans to the FN, despite the party’s success in the local and European elections this year. She said that there was nothing political about the Russian loans. The FN had approached banks in several countries. Only the Russian bank had delivered.
“We tried in Spain, Italy, the United States, Asia and Russia,” she said. “We grabbed the first offer that we got.”
It was “insulting”, she said, to suggest that a party that idolises national sovereignty should have “sold” its support to Moscow. The FN had been pro-Putin for several years, she pointed out.Under French law it is illegal for foreign governments or individuals to give money to political candidates. This does not apply to loans. There were calls for the law to be strengthened because france is worried Putin is trying to bring Nazis to power in France. you know being that he hates Nazis and all.

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

Now i could go into greece etc but again we see Putin funds Nazi organizations in Europe so lets move on. Lets look at Ukraine a minute.

But neither party was able to build a power base in the elections of 2014. In the parliamentary elections in October, Svoboda took just under 5 per cent of the vote, the threshold needed to enter parliament. The party had managed to win more than 10 per cent of the vote in the elections of 2012.

Right Sector won less than 2 per cent of votes in the parliamentary elections.

Well thats really strange wait you mean the Nazi parties lost the election but wait putin tells us Ukraine is swarming with Nazis let me guess they were all visiting Moscow on the day of the elections and forgot to vote right?? Well thats ok they probably got the presidency right??

The leaders of Svoboda and Right Sector - Oleh Tyahnybok and Dmytro Yarosh - were also snubbed in the country's presidential election, with both men getting around 1 per cent of the vote.

Oh no they appear to got 1 percent of the vote wow Micmany in Ukraine but Putin and Russia says they are all over the place. key mouse does better in US elections as a write in candidate hmm Ok maybe they were just busy the day of the elections and Watching Putin on television because they again dont appear to go to the polls for elections. After all Ukraine is swarming with then we hear it all the time on RT thats so strange. So wonder where they are well Putin once again is promoting them they now will be seen as defenders of the realm. So wait Putins policies are creating fascism in Ukraine?

The conflict in eastern Ukraine has reportedly attracted recruits with far-right and neo-Nazi views from a number of foreign countries, with extremists choosing to fight for both sides for ideological reasons.

Several media organisations have interviewed a former Swedish soldier called Mikael Skillt, an apparent neo-Nazi who is fighting with the Azov Battalion.

According to other reports, Belarussians, Poles, Italians, Serbs and Spanish volunteers have been spotted fighting for both sides.

Other young Russian right wingers are fighting for the separatists under the banner of "Novorussia" - the name for part of Ukraine annexed by Tsarist Russia in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Wait Russian Nazis are flooding in too to fight with the separatist guess RT forgot to mention that. So we have Nazis fighting on both sides now this is getting confusing huh?
www.channel4.com...

So Russian Nazis good Ukrainian Nazis bad. Next time we can go over all Putins lies should be fun.

a reply to: mSparks43

Oh and as for your infatuation with the Queen get help man shes 90 years old a senile. Really disturbing how interested in the monarch you appear to be suggest a cold shower and seek a psychiatrist.

a reply to: dragonridr

I, along with nearly all of my peers, had to leave the UK because it has no future.
That future is defined by the head.
Took with us several $Billion of GDP in future earnings.
Make of that what you will.

as for:
->According to Zisels, neo-Nazi organisations – which have prospered in Russia for over 20 years, and fuel tensions in the country after the fall of the Soviet Union – are now operating in Ukraine after being active in Moldova and Georgia.

well, yeah, exactly???????
according to the "Russian and US propganda"
The Russian soldiers ARE FIGHTING THESE GROUPS
Hence why they are no longer in Russia, and are now in the Ukraine.

According to the US state department, and "Russian Propoganda"
The US is FUNDING THESE GROUPS
according to the Ukraine media - they PUT THE LEADER OF THESE GROUPS IN CHARGE OF THE UKRAINE MILITARY

____
What wasn't clear before, is. If it this was just Russia/Putin creating "enemies" to fight with.
But since we now know they have the full backing of the US/UK. that seems highly unlikely.

Which is why pretty much the entire world (outside of the US/UK "special relationship) isn't on your side.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

I, along with nearly all of my peers, had to leave the UK because it has no future.
That future is defined by the head.
Took with us several $Billion of GDP in future earnings.
Make of that what you will.

as for:
->According to Zisels, neo-Nazi organisations – which have prospered in Russia for over 20 years, and fuel tensions in the country after the fall of the Soviet Union – are now operating in Ukraine after being active in Moldova and Georgia.

well, yeah, exactly???????
according to the "Russian and US propganda"
The Russian soldiers ARE FIGHTING THESE GROUPS
Hence why they are no longer in Russia, and are now in the Ukraine.

According to the US state department, and "Russian Propoganda"
The US is FUNDING THESE GROUPS
according to the Ukraine media - they PUT THE LEADER OF THESE GROUPS IN CHARGE OF THE UKRAINE MILITARY

____
What wasn't clear before, is. If it this was just Russia/Putin creating "enemies" to fight with.
But since we now know they have the full backing of the US/UK. that seems highly unlikely.

Which is why pretty much the entire world (outside of the US/UK "special relationship) isn't on your side.

Reread it your apparently incapable of comprehension Russia sent Nazis to fight on Ukraine. There original purpose was to scare the population than they took over. The separatists were Russian neo Nazis. Sent by Putin to kill Ukrainians.

Well I think Moscow is in trouble. Just checked in for hk Moscow flight Su213. In the line two guys smelled strongly of a Buddhist perfume oil but it turned my stomach and made my ears burn. I believe it is some sort of biohazard. After I started talking to airline staff both guys went to the restroom. Tall red head, and blue eyed blk hair. They are probably not Buddhists, Buddhists are peaceful.....but masons....they use biological poisons all the time. They have used them against me

a reply to: dragonridr

the only evidence you have for this is "apparent" and "reportedly".

as I said. that was a perfectly valid theory.

before they got their own divisions in the Ukraine military and open funding from the us.

that some soldiers in some divisions have far right views is "proof" of squat.

"official" russian policy is and always has been kill the nazis.
previously we didn't know. now we do. that.
"official" ukraine/US/UK policy is fund the nazis and make laws to portray them as acceptable.

oh and BTW.
there's quite a lot more involved in being a nazi than just hating manlove and kiddy porn.
both far left and far right share that distaste.
it's only the architects of soddom and gomorrah who are into that kind of sizzle.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

the only evidence you have for this is "apparent" and "reportedly".

as I said. that was a perfectly valid theory.

before they got their own divisions in the Ukraine military and open funding from the us.

that some soldiers in some divisions have far right views is "proof" of squat.

"official" russian policy is and always has been kill the nazis.
previously we didn't know. now we do. that.
"official" ukraine/US/UK policy is fund the nazis and make laws to portray them as acceptable.

oh and BTW.
there's quite a lot more involved in being a nazi than just hating manlove and kiddy porn.
both far left and far right share that distaste.
it's only the architects of soddom and gomorrah who are into that kind of sizzle.

Oh I see in russia theres just a couple of Nazis but Ukraine Is swarming with them. See thus shows its not about right or wrong for you is it? Your willing to overlook anything for Putin and that is the most dangerous part of all. This is why Putin can't take over in the western cointries. We are highly critical of our governments. In the west a leader like Putin would have been impeached or jailed by now.

a reply to: dragonridr

every military in the entire world has it's fair share of undesirable views. They generally know to keep their mouths shut.

The difference we are talking about here is at the command and control level and stated objectives.
Not sure why you keep mentioning Putin - who is no less the figure head than Elizabeth.

Everything "Russia" is doing has been approved by the 616 members of the Russian Parliament.
It's what makes it "Russia and Putin" doing it.

Obviously stuff happens in their country that they don't approve of, and they take what steps they can to remedy it.
Just like any other country.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

every military in the entire world has it's fair share of undesirable views. They generally know to keep their mouths shut.

The difference we are talking about here is at the command and control level and stated objectives.
Not sure why you keep mentioning Putin - who is no less the figure head than Elizabeth.

Everything "Russia" is doing has been approved by the 616 members of the Russian Parliament.
It's what makes it "Russia and Putin" doing it.

Obviously stuff happens in their country that they don't approve of, and they take what steps they can to remedy it.
Just like any other country.

Really you believe that do you? Where you aware the use of force in Ukraine has been revoked. But yey Putin has troops in Ukraine fighting there, So i guess we have unauthorized people there at Putin's request. Meaning i hate to tell you he has total control Russian parliament is nothing but a smoke screen to let the people feel good.

a reply to: dragonridr

So what you are saying is.

Because those three school girls went to syria
We should put the queens head on a stake
And impeach Cameron.

With you on that one baby.
You first. It's too far for me to travel.
And also, I don't care about your problems enough.

a reply to: mSparks43

What has this to do with anything?? It doesnt other than you trying to change the subject again you made the claim Russian parliament is in control and not Putin. I showed you that assumption is false since the permission they gave to use troops was revoked. Yet Putin has Russian soldiers in Ukraine dying. And then the video even they admit its not an excuse for Russia's actions in the conflict. Everyone is aware there is ethnic Russians in Ukraine. This still doesnt give Russia the right to send troops into Ukraine and it doesnt give them the right to make decisions in Ukraine. Just because they dont like that their puppet was removed from power.

Now apparently your incapable of continuing this discussion because you cant seem to grasp English well enough to continue this debate. English is a second language for me as well but at least i spent 20 years around speakers you seem to not have that. You misquote articles and seem not to understand what they are saying.

a reply to: dragonridr

No different than you claiming the british parliament is in control and not the monarchy.
Personally I think your being a bit ridiculous on both counts.

Head of state has "the last say" on most things, and declares war when needed. And recognises states (so DPR is screwed on that one from the UK, Elizabeth can't even recognise her own reflection). That is what a Head of State does. Be that the UK, Russia, the US or Saudi Arabia, any country in fact.

->I showed you that assumption is false since the permission they gave to use troops was revoked. Yet Putin has Russian soldiers in Ukraine dying.

I can say with pretty much 100% certainty there are no Russian Soldiers in the Ukraine. and if there are - no more than a handful on "black ops".

Or are you confusing the DPR with the Ukraine?

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

No different than you claiming the british parliament is in control and not the monarchy.
Personally I think your being a bit ridiculous on both counts.

Head of state has "the last say" on most things, and declares war when needed. And recognises states (so DPR is screwed on that one from the UK, Elizabeth can't even recognise her own reflection). That is what a Head of State does. Be that the UK, Russia, the US or Saudi Arabia, any country in fact.

->I showed you that assumption is false since the permission they gave to use troops was revoked. Yet Putin has Russian soldiers in Ukraine dying.

I can say with pretty much 100% certainty there are no Russian Soldiers in the Ukraine. and if there are - no more than a handful on "black ops".

Or are you confusing the DPR with the Ukraine?

The British government is run by the Prime Minister, currently David Cameron. He is head of the administration.
Theoretically the leader of the elected party has the position of Prime Minister, and he presides over a Cabinet of Ministers of various departments, health, education, defense, etc. The Cabinet discuss and formulate government policy then recommend their decision to the House of Commons, formed of elected members from all over the UK. 659 members of all parties. The House votes upon the recommendation and if it is carried it becomes government policy if it is defeated it does not. (Most measures have to be passed by the House of Lords, too).
In practice the elected party has a majority of members (called seats) and so the Prime Minister is usually able to ensure that all items are passed, although if the opposition parties members can combine their votes it may be defeated.

The only right of the Queen in the UK according to the Ministry of Justice, is the right to be consulted. In practice that means the Government is legally free to ignore her advice. So now once again im telling you your clueless on how the UK is ran. The queen is a figure head she has no power to control the government. The fact that you think so only shows you obviously know nothing about the UK.

Now i suggest you watch news other than Russian television a report came out detailing Russian troops involvement in Ukraine. You are continually wrong on every point you make to the point of absurdity. Russia has indeed sent troops into Ukraine there people are being killed and in fact most of the fighting is indeed Russian troops Putin has been caught lying once again. He claims he was trying to promote piece all the while sending more Russian troops into Ukraine.

Ill make this terribly easy for you if this conflict is to end Russia will need to pull back its troops and stop attacking Ukrainians. There is nothing to justify Putins actions in this or the killing of Russian people he has committed in the past . He has lied and cheated his way into power and people are dying because his actions. Eventually the people in Russia will realize this and remove him. When you have 55 percent of Russians deeply worried about the economy its just a matter of time.

a reply to: dragonridr

so why aren't you blaming the russian equivalent of David Cameron

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Cameron still meets with Beth once a week afaik.

although those meetings are well above top secret. I reckon these days they consist mostly of proverbs repeated over and over.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

so why aren't you blaming the russian equivalent of David Cameron

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Cameron still meets with Beth once a week afaik.

although those meetings are well above top secret. I reckon these days they consist mostly of proverbs repeated over and over.

Because in russia he has no powe Putin is the president being number 2 guy in a dictator ship means nothing.

a reply to: dragonridr

you think Cameron has power?

mwah hahaha Haa

he'd be dismissed the second he didn't walk backwards out of beths chambers.

just like they did to Gordon Brown when he told Beth to shove her "screw the poor" policies where the sun don't shine.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: dragonridr

Because in russia he has no powe Putin is the president being number 2 guy in a dictator ship means nothing.

Just like the vice president in the US...no power, but just a title that makes you look like something.