Disclosure of the Moon Landing Hoax: Part 2

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

so the fact that you agreed that no "moon rocks" were officially given out during the goodwill tour in the netherlands means absolutely nothing to you anymore??

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
a reply to: onebigmonkey

There you go with your imaginary three weeks again...

Let's take a straw poll in the thread and see which argument has more merit

onebigmonkey proposes the SSTV equipment explosion at the Sydney OTC building was... three months before Apollo 11... based on Richard Nafzger's 2013 oral history transcript at nasa.gov
www.jsc.nasa.gov...

SayonaraJupiter proposes the SSTV equipment explosion at the Sydney OTC building was... three weeks before Apollo 11... based on Richard Nafzger's 2010 audio interview at honeysucklecreek.net
www.honeysucklecreek.net...

I knew you would bring up that audio. Listen to parts two and three carefully. I would agree that he says three weeks, he also says, in part two:

"Two-three weeks before launch..or could have been 30 days"

and in part three:

"I can't remember all the exact dates"

Like many elderly people, he can remember the important specifics but is vague about other details.

You can insist all you like that it was 3 weeks before launch, but Nafzger can't remember precisely and I would suggest that he is much more of an authority on the issue than you are.

You can also correct your insistence that the building was locked for the weekend. His exact words were:

"There was a weekend where [OTC] was essentially shut even to us until Monday morning"

So, it wasn't locked for the weekend, he just wasn't allowed in it - gee, do you think it might be because they had workmen in?

Here's what else he has to say:

""There was a weekend where [OTC] was essentially shut even to us until Monday morning, so we left it Friday night and came in Monday morning and one of the Bendix fellows asked me to turn on the converter and so I went over and threw the switch. Tat's when smoke and rattling and noises and all kinds of things started happening. I threw the switch off as fast as I could, smoke literally came out the back of it and we didn't know what happened, but we knew there was a lot of damage potentially and started assessing it."

After tracing it back to a power converter unit in the basement away from SSTV equipment, they worked out that:

"It turned out that one of the workers came in I guess over the weekend and was looking at the converter and thought he had found a wiring error that we had made since red and black wiring had opposite meanings in Australia."

Those are Nafzger's exact words.

You can try and invent yourself as an authority all you like, but we have his own words describing what happened and anything else you try and spin on it is pure fabrication.

Nafzger's job was to get TV sorted for Apollo 11, which he did despite the fire. He was also involved in setting up Madrid - nothing bad happened there.

That Honeysuckle Creek page also has links to Stan Lebar on it. Here's a nice video of Stan Lebar describing his work. he has a low opinion of conspiracy theorists:

archive.org...

and I don't blame him - his mistrust is for exactly the behaviour on display here: taking one set of words and twisting them to mean something else entirely.

originally posted by: choos
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

so the fact that you agreed that no "moon rocks" were officially given out during the goodwill tour in the netherlands means absolutely nothing to you anymore??

Choos, we are all entitled to reevaluate our own positions, even you did, when you down graded the conspiracy from 400,000 to 27 people.

Now about Middendorf. He was CIA, a rabid anti-Communist, and appointed by Nixon, don't you agree?

What source do you believe about the SSTV equipment explosion, nasa.gov or honeysucklecreek.net? Do you think the explosion was sabotage linked to possible covert actions between Soviet and American agents in Sydney, Australia, in mid to late June 1969?

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter

originally posted by: choos
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

so the fact that you agreed that no "moon rocks" were officially given out during the goodwill tour in the netherlands means absolutely nothing to you anymore??

Choos, we are all entitled to reevaluate our own positions, even you did, when you down graded the conspiracy from 400,000 to 27 people.

you need to read what i wrote again.. i was comparing the estimates of the bare minimum not my opinion..

Now about Middendorf. He was CIA, a rabid anti-Communist, and appointed by Nixon, don't you agree?

so??

What source do you believe about the SSTV equipment explosion, nasa.gov or honeysucklecreek.net? Do you think the explosion was sabotage linked to possible covert actions between Soviet and American agents in Sydney, Australia, in mid to late June 1969?

even if it was, it doesnt prove a hoax, it doesnt even hint at a hoax.. if anything it will prove its legitimacy..

"We've got a launch coming in like three weeks!" - That is what Nafzger says in the audio interview. We need to know the exact date of the SSTV equipment sabotage in the OTC building located at Sydney, Australia. Why can't your NASA sources provide a reliable date that the explosion happened? Why are your NASA sources so unreliable?

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter

Richard Nafzger's job is to produce the portion of the Apollo television show that deals crucially with the conversion of Apollo 11 SSTV signals to normal commercial broadcast signals. He holds a valuable position to be in if he were called to be an active participant in the Apollo 11 lunar landing TV hoax, either through direct order from the President or a pay off from Howard Hughes.

You're saying this alleged hoax was orchestrated by Nixon giving direct orders to the thousands of Richard Nafzgers who would have to have been complicit?

Totally ridiculous. Even if a set up like that was remotely plausible the secret would never have lasted through the disintegration of the Nixon administration after Watergate.

a reply to: choos

You can't avoid the question choos. Was the explosion three months or three weeks before Apollo 11? Just answer it.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

You're saying this alleged hoax was orchestrated by Nixon giving direct orders to the thousands of Richard Nafzgers who would have to have been complicit?

Totally ridiculous. Even if a set up like that was remotely plausible the secret would never have lasted through the disintegration of the Nixon administration after Watergate.

It's totally ridiculous because that's not what I said.

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

show me the importance of it first.. because to me its a non issue i simply dont care when it malfunctioned.. i only care whether or not it worked..

the equipment was fixed and used for Apollo 11 therefore it worked..

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

Strawman.

There was no sabotage, the equipment was repaired. Calling it sabotage does not mean it was, it's a fabrication of yours.

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
a reply to: Ove38

Same display case and same rock in Prague later the same year:

(From 'Marketing the Moon')

I almost gave you a star there onebigmonkey, but you are wrong again, it's not the same display case it's not the same rock !

Look at the base of the display case of Ambassador Malcolm Toon in Prague, it does not have the silver line of the display case of Ambassador John William Middendorf in Amsterdam.

a reply to: Ove38

Toon was the ambassador to Czechoslovakia from 1969 to 1971....

a reply to: Ove38

I did wonder about that and the more I look at it the less sure I am. I think the silver coloured band is a seal, but it could just be decoration. The Smithsonian one also doesn't have it.

I did initially believe them to be the same case, and I'm not sure if the base of the Prague one isn't embedded in something else as part of the display, but their dimensions also look slightly different.

Marketing the Moon reports an article that says by the end of 1970 over 40 million people had seen "an Apollo 11 or 12 moon rock", so obviously more than one was doing the rounds. The 1970 Osaka Expo also had one.

Either way, the rock and case in the Dutch and Czech photographs are nothing to do with Drees or Middendorf or the Apollo 11 Goodwill Tour,

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
It's totally ridiculous because that's not what I said.

That is exactly what you said:

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
He holds a valuable position to be in if he were called to be an active participant in the Apollo 11 lunar landing TV hoax, either through direct order from the President or a pay off from Howard Hughes.

You suggested that Nixon gave direct orders to someone as far down the food chain as Nafzger.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Nixon was such a control freak that he would personally issue orders to his own intestinal flora.

SayonaraJupiter --

You constantly single out Richard Nixon as the architect (being President at the time) of this alleged hoax. However, wouldn't Lyndon Johnson be just as complicit, considering he was the president up to and including Apollo 8, and was still the sitting president just 6 months prior to Apollo 11? I would think if human flight to the Moon was a hoax, then Johnson, just like you allege for Nixon, would need to have been orchestrating it.

So it seems the hoax would have needed to originate with Lyndon Johnson. If that were the case, do you have evidence linking Johnson to such a deceitful undertaking?

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Why do you think JFK was assassinated, eh? Eh?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Why do you think JFK was assassinated, eh? Eh?

Because he wanted to cooperate with USSR in space.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: DelMarvel

Nixon was such a control freak that he would personally issue orders to his own intestinal flora.

Of course.

But the idea that Nixon orchestrated a hoax by personally issuing orders to rank and file NASA personnel is completely implausible. He also wound up compulsively recording all his conversations. This would have been a huge production and if he were personally involved in issuing orders to people like Nafzger there is no way that would have remained secret.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: DelMarvel

Nixon was such a control freak that he would personally issue orders to his own intestinal flora.

Of course.

But the idea that Nixon orchestrated a hoax by personally issuing orders to rank and file NASA personnel is completely implausible. He also wound up compulsively recording all his conversations. This would have been a huge production and if he were personally involved in issuing orders to people like Nafzger there is no way that would have remained secret.

Plus, Apollo 8 took astronauts around the Moon prior to Nixon being sworn in a president, and only 6 weeks after he was elected. I'm not sure how he could have had any authority to be personally issuing the hoax orders for that mission, considering most of the lead-up to that mission happened before he was elected.