The Conspiracy of Do Nothing

originally posted by: Shamrock6
My point was simply that there's always a bunch of talk about "it's time" but nobody ever wants to be the first one out of the gate. Or, looking at history, very rarely do they want to be first out of the gate. But people will talk all day long about how willing they are if only x, y, and z would happen.

Look at Operation American Spring last year, they predicted 10-30 million people would be in Washington protesting and aiming to throw the government out and set up their own dictatorship, so only 100-300 people (and a dog) turn up.

One problem in wanting change is what exactly will the change be, and what can I get out of it?

originally posted by: saadad

originally posted by: In4ormant
What am I revolting against? I have a good job that I don't mind working hard at. Ive got a good education I don't mind paying for as it afforded me the job. I'm married to a great woman because I took my time and didn't knock up some 17 year old when I was 19. My kids are well behaved because I set that expectation early. I can go and do anything I choose in the world provided I can afford the cost. There is no "they" for me to revolt against. MY life is a direct result of my choices and effort. Those mired in the regret of THEIR choices tend to lash out at others. Which is what your proposing. You need a villain because it can't be your fault your where you are in life.

Because of selfish people like you there are people hurting and dieng. Because you can't see further than I.

That's their goal. They want obeying citizens that don't revolt. Give them bread and games and you can control them. My life is also great. I m on top of everything a truly free man. But I don't care about all of this if I know other people are hungry, children are dieng while some asshole is sitting on pills of money.

Stop being selfish, because if you lose everything you claim u have, what will you have? Then you will change your mind.

Sorry but people like you need to vanish and new people that are born need to evolve.

Whoa, here now. That's super harsh and uncool.
The poster you are attacking has obligations and responsibilities. Not everyone can suddenly go out and be a revolutionary leader. Somebody has to feed, clothe and house the revolutionaries. Heaping insults on people isn't the way to win them over.
If you have no responsibilities and duties restraining you, by all means, pursue your dreams. But don't let the fact that there are people hurting and dying be your entire life. It's a hard place to find joy.

a reply to: diggindirt

I was not insulting. I just say facts. To selfish people like that poster I look as low level people. I don't have anything against them. I know it is a long process. So I just say that before selfish people don't vanish nothing will change. Unless mother nature decides to change things.

I m not really into revolt, war, or anything were people die. I know I won't be part of that. I m almost fully out of system and that is my part and way out of this corrupt system.

a reply to: saadad
Oh, so your answer is to leave the system but if one decides to not leave the system voluntarily, they are selfish and should be gone.
So you are doing even less than the poster you are calling selfish to improve the world around you.
Calling someone selfish for simply wanting to live and let live is an insult in my world.

originally posted by: saadad

originally posted by: In4ormant
What am I revolting against? I have a good job that I don't mind working hard at. Ive got a good education I don't mind paying for as it afforded me the job. I'm married to a great woman because I took my time and didn't knock up some 17 year old when I was 19. My kids are well behaved because I set that expectation early. I can go and do anything I choose in the world provided I can afford the cost. There is no "they" for me to revolt against. MY life is a direct result of my choices and effort. Those mired in the regret of THEIR choices tend to lash out at others. Which is what your proposing. You need a villain because it can't be your fault your where you are in life.

Because of selfish people like you there are people hurting and dieng. Because you can't see further than I.

That's their goal. They want obeying citizens that don't revolt. Give them bread and games and you can control them. My life is also great. I m on top of everything a truly free man. But I don't care about all of this if I know other people are hungry, children are dieng while some asshole is sitting on pills of money.

Stop being selfish, because if you lose everything you claim u have, what will you have? Then you will change your mind.

Sorry but people like you need to vanish and new people that are born need to evolve.

Here we go about the children. Someone somewhere is less fortunate so let's revolt and take stuff somebody else worked hard to earn. Helping those less fortunate around you can be accomplished without the "revolt" you propose.

What if this, what if that.
" Stop being selfish."

I will be selfish in order to provide for my family first(this actually helps your fellow man). I will continue to work hard and send my kids to college and instill in them a strong work ethic and sense of consequence for their actions. That's the job I accepted when my wife and I CHOSE to have them.

People die all the time, its how things work. People like you who tell me I'm selfish because I don't spend my one shot on this earth trying to overcome the poor decisions another guy made for himself are hypocrites at best. Who are they to paint themselves into a corner and expect me to use what little time I have to get them out, all the while giving less effort than the person trying to help?? Its not the haves and have nots, champ. There are people who understand consequence of action and those who don't. You obviously fall under"don't" .

originally posted by: saadad
a reply to: diggindirt

I was not insulting. I just say facts. To selfish people like that poster I look as low level people. I don't have anything against them. I know it is a long process. So I just say that before selfish people don't vanish nothing will change. Unless mother nature decides to change things.

I m not really into revolt, war, or anything were people die. I know I won't be part of that. I m almost fully out of system and that is my part and way out of this corrupt system.

I'm "low" level? You and your revolt buddies will always fail at this because your thinking is "low" level and you can't see that you spend all your time fighting SYMPTOMS. When are you gonna start understanding ROOT CAUSE.

Kids starving in Africa ( you guys love using this one)
Symptom

ROOT CAUSE
Having a culture that accepts/practices the concept that having children in an environment where you almost certainly guarantee the will starve is OK.

You might get more traction from people if you guys all stopped fighting the runny nose and went after the cold.

a reply to: saadad

I'm raising children to make informed decisions based in forethought so that they can do the same. In this way I am ensuring some other hard working parent doesn't have to provide for them through hand outs and "revolts". So my actions by proxy help my neighbor and his mine. That's not selfish, that's how it works. Care to join the real world?

a reply to: saadad

You still havent, in precise terms, explained what actions you want people to take and what outcomes you expect to follow.

From your posts I am making a guess that your in favor of wealth redistribution, which would make you a thief.

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

You question the morality of those not huddled under your umbrella?

a reply to: saadad

What precisely have you done to change it all? Ok step 1...you called someone selfish...great...what is step 2? 3? 4?

I agree with diggingdirt...you're answer is to tuck tail and run.

You're message was "selfish people like (blank) are the reason nothing happens"

then in the next paragraph "I am leaving the system"

now THAT is cowardly. That is a person on the Titanic saying "HEY! Why aren't you helping others get into a lifeboat!" All the while paddling away in a canoe you packed up for yourself prior to departing port

As for the premise itself, I get it OP I do. One thing I would ask you to consider is that some people don't have the ability to fight a big fight but are fighting small ones. I have picked my battles; mainly mental illness and gender/orientation/race equality. My battles are small. While working in the hospital I learned fast how to work things to get help for the people who couldn't find it otherwise. My first battle is one on one. I take one person at a time and make my effort.

Now my preparations are made to start my speaking and public presentations regarding mental illness and disability. I have no clue what will happen. Will 200 people show up? Will I start my speech and only one person will be there? -shrug-

Don't know. What I do know is that I am not probably the person to make a major move. I like my moves small. Just so long as we don't get lost and tell people who fight small battles that they aren't as worthy, then life will continue forward.

And btw...I was no insinuating that you would think small battles are worthless...that was more a general point

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: saadad

What precisely have you done to change it all? Ok step 1...you called someone selfish...great...what is step 2? 3? 4?

I agree with diggingdirt...you're answer is to tuck tail and run.

You're message was "selfish people like (blank) are the reason nothing happens"

then in the next paragraph "I am leaving the system"

now THAT is cowardly. That is a person on the Titanic saying "HEY! Why aren't you helping others get into a lifeboat!" All the while paddling away in a canoe you packed up for yourself prior to departing port

As for the premise itself, I get it OP I do. One thing I would ask you to consider is that some people don't have the ability to fight a big fight but are fighting small ones. I have picked my battles; mainly mental illness and gender/orientation/race equality. My battles are small. While working in the hospital I learned fast how to work things to get help for the people who couldn't find it otherwise. My first battle is one on one. I take one person at a time and make my effort.

Now my preparations are made to start my speaking and public presentations regarding mental illness and disability. I have no clue what will happen. Will 200 people show up? Will I start my speech and only one person will be there? -shrug-

Don't know. What I do know is that I am not probably the person to make a major move. I like my moves small. Just so long as we don't get lost and tell people who fight small battles that they aren't as worthy, then life will continue forward.

And btw...I was no insinuating that you would think small battles are worthless...that was more a general point

He doesn't see that being a good role model, paying your taxes so that community programs designed to help others have funding, donating blood, buying girl scout cookies and the countless ways we all contribute in small ways as "helping". He wants MORE. Its never enough with these people.

a reply to: In4ormant

agreed...but the problem is his "more" is running away and hoping American people lose everything basically...all while sipping alcohol that he seems to think is impressive

Glenfiddich 15....

a reply to: hellobruce

A gale starts with a simple breeze.

What amazing outcomes start from the single effort. When man's spirit and resolve come to bear. A young boy with a slingshot and a small stone. A woman who's tired legs and feet cannot take her another step, forcing her to sit. A young man with both hands laden with groceries crossing a street in his neighborhood, challenging the force that tried prove its dominance. Lines of people for miles collecting salt from the sea with nothing more than sheets of muslin.

A war can be won with just a whimper.

Our choices "are" what make us slaves. There is no easy way out. You eat from the kings table, you are a slave of the king. You can't have it both ways. What does it say about us when we continue to feed the very monsters that we claim we should destroy?

Real conviction takes a lot more than heart, for a heart grows weak, when the belly is empty, and when the eyes of your loved ones are full of questions you are forced to answer. We each have to make our own choices. I hope that we can see with just a little greater clarity and honesty.

We were duped. We have gone way too far past the point of an easy fix. The fix will come with time and much pain, but nothing will change until we change ourselves. Our world is just that. "Our" world. It is not owned by a handfull of families, and as much as much as we like to complain about how their greed and dominence is what has ruined our planet, left to their devices, they would have had very little impact.

The painful truth is that it is our greed and jealousy that has allowed them to create this world that we now see as flawed and unsustainable. The world in all its form is already perfect. It is our short sighted, egotistical, attempts at playing God, that has caused our problems all around the world.

The first thing I was taught as a child, growing up in the country, was you "never", "never", contaminate your water source. If you couldn't dig a well, you may have had to walk a while to the stream, but that stream was left untouched. You want to wash clothes or yourself, you collected the water, used it as you needed and recycled that water far from the stream. That water was not owned by any one person and it had to used by all that needed it. The greatest crime you could commit against a community was to contaminate their water source. You where taught that the land needs time to rest like we do. We were taught the land gives to you and you give back to the land. I guess we were the first recylers back then, we just didn't have a fancy name for it, it was just called common sense. You keep taking something away without putting something back, in the end you have nothing.

Unfortunately, we are going to have to go back to the basics. How far back will depend on how much damage has already been done. We are going to have to see with unscaled eyes the world that "is", not some technological fantasy world from the imaginations of dreamers. Yes it sounds amazing, we are going to travel to the stars! At the expense of a whole planet? I pray there are Aliens among us, and I pray they never let us leave the atmosphere of this planet until we have something to offer a world beyond ours. Something more than war, ravaging, pillaging, religion and the quest for dominance. Until we can live in harmony with each other and with our own planet, we are children that should be kept locked in the playpen.

What do we really want? Why are not love, a warm hearth, a full belly, whether with gruel or pudding, a place to lay your head, not enough? What is the more that everyone is sacrificing for? We feed the wolves and lament they are killing the sheep.

The problem starts and ends with "you". If you are whittling at the log in your own eye, you won't see the splinter in your neighbors.

Please. This is a very long and verbose reply. It is not meant as an attack on you or anyone else here. I am pleased that we are finally looking at these issues we face, and are sharing ideas. We will never agree on everything, but that doesn't mean that I am right and you are wrong. Believe it or not, it is within the realm of probability that we all can be right, and we all can be wrong. Let's find our "common ground" and see what we can do about restoring our families, our communities, our governments and our planet. We have a lot of work to do and we have already wasted way too much time.

You don't have to start big. See what needs fixing around you. Start. Others will follow.

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

Okay. It's very easy to point out problems. It's also very easy to point fingers. Finding solutions isn't so easy. (But you must know that already or -- as the only person who truly understands the problem -- you would have fixed everything yourself, right?) So I agree with you in principle and in theory.... now what do we do about it in practice?

Armed revolution? Because might makes right? So let's say we all pick up guns, pitchforks, mace, whatever, and clean out D.C.... now what? Or, more to the point, who?

But that's what elections are for, right? The same elections that use easily compromised electronic voting machines, with no verifiable paper trail, flipping votes, and countless other ways to rig the vote. Nope. That hasn't worked.

Take it to the courts? The vast majority of the people -- the ones hurt most in this economy thanks to the PTB -- simply do not have the means to fight the virtually unlimited power and resources of the govt and the banksters and the mega corporations... and those who do have the means don't want to fight because they're the ones benefitting most from the corruption and crimes against humanity.

Constitutional Convention? That's already in the works. The same people who refuse to follow the Constitution now want to re-write the Constitution. Let's see... do I want Blue Team dictating my life? Or Red Team? Or Purple Team? Or Green Team??? What could possibly go wrong?

I think the answer is us... the way we do that is to empower the people, to make the people as self-sufficient and resourceful as possible, to put people before profit, to respect -- not tolerate, but respect -- everyone's natural rights to be free, to live and let live... When the people are strong, when they know they can take care of themselves, they don't need or want government to take care of them and will fight abuse of power because they have something to fight for. If the people ever find common ground and stand together, the Leviathan would fall without a shot fired.

What do you think the answer is? What should people be doing, either individually or collectively? This is ATS. We all see the problems, just not from the same perspective. What is the solution that everyone, or at least a majority, can agree with and fight together for?

a reply to: Boadicea

“I think the answer is us... the way we do that is to empower the people, to make the people as self-sufficient and resourceful as possible, to put people before profit, to respect -- not tolerate, but respect -- everyone's natural rights to be free, to live and let live... When the people are strong, when they know they can take care of themselves, they don't need or want government to take care of them and will fight abuse of power because they have something to fight for. If the people ever find common ground and stand together, the Leviathan would fall without a shot fired.“

This is indeed a good starting place, but before we can do that we have to first separate ourselves from a material world that we thinks needs to be conquered. We need to recognize our participation in the demise of our world. We can no longer hide behind the excuses we have used to hold ourselves above the blame.

We are all guilty and blood is thick on all of our hands. We cannot undo, we can try to mend. It is so simple, but it is not easy.

An addiction is a hard thing to break. Take it slow. One step at a time. Start with the children. Save them, they are our only hope, and may they some day forgive us for what we have done.

www.nydailynews.com...

The New Jersey man who died after setting himself ablaze on the National Mall in Washington had railed against the government and told a neighbor “America is falling apart

Never heard about this on ats

a reply to: woodwardjnr

A shame it wasn't Jon Corzine.

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution

Thank You for a most wonderful elaborate Rant, late as ususal please let me comment.

I welcome almost all of it, rational and substainable.
Appart from the destroying and killing parts. I understand the urge but it doesn't serve a purpose it just becomes an oxymoron.
But very well related. Thank You.

I saved this thread untill I had a proper connection.

continue to just bicker amongst ourselves and wait patiently for the next atrocity to come that we can continue to fight about?

At least we have this opportunity, in some countries we would be murdered prosecuted for haveing an oppinion against the goverment.
Keep this in mind, there won't be a WWW SS comander at our doors. And I don't wait patiently. I really bugs me that I can't do any thing apart from being a nag.

Am I the only person who, when realizing that people are being fed poison, feels that the people doing the poisoning need to die?

"An Eye For An Eye, Makes The Whole World Blind" Ghandi
I can choose to consume else where. Educate people and it will exterminate the exterminaters. But then again people take the easy cheap route to their own demise.

Am I the only person who, when realizing that there are powerful individuals brainwashing and controlling the populace by nefarious means and control via wealth and ancient bloodlines, feels that that power needs to be destroyed?

Perhaps not destroyed, but converted or "convinced" of a more compassionate way.

Am I the only one who, when realizing I know these things, feels an obligation to stop these things from happening to humanity even if it costs me my life?



Please tell me I'm not the only one. SHOW ME I'm not the only one. When will people stand and say NO MORE?



Why is everyone so unmoved to do something?

"Every One" is not unmoved, but we are all in this trap, pay rent, morgage, bills, some people even still view television, and are so influenced by subliminal messages that they can't make coherant decissions on their own, they can't. It is dictated.

I must pay my bills, I fight where I can, I oppose injustice but I will not engage in turning over society on a violent level, it must come with a common shift in the collective consciense. I can't SHOW you, Sorry. I do what I can, I am a beggar as many of us with a 9 to 5. Or those in less fortunate countries where the "Dump" is their source of liveing.
WIS

a reply to: In4ormant

You choose to accept the bonds of economic dictation and psuedo slavery they place upon you as normal because it is the best you've known. It is all you've known. So therefore everyone else should be happy in that system and if not it is because of their "bad decisions".

Get a taste of true freedom once and you will long for nothing else. You don't even know what true freedom is.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Seeing the years I've put into finding those like minded people, they are extremely difficult to find. Lots of people are just talk and those who aren't either lack the dedication or seek control.

Yes, going into a losing battle is an excuse for not acting. The Art of War would call it a very good excuse. As long as some support would stand it would no longer be an excuse. That support is sorely lacking.