Racism in the Bible

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: peter vlar

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing more to say. Jesus said it all.

So Leviticus are words of Jesus?? *

Not exactly that simple...

Interesting, no mention of women and women, that appears not to be issue here, right?

Anyway, I am sure that you do understand that due to entertainment packs being different, man and man do not lie the same way man and women do ('as with' does apply the same, right?), so what's the problem??

* Scholars are practically unanimous that the book had a long period of growth, that it includes some material of considerable antiquity, and that it reached its present form in the Persian period (538–332 BCE).

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: peter vlar

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing more to say. Jesus said it all.

Oh so does that mean you also follow these laws as well?

76 Things Banned in Leviticus (and their penalties)

You aren't honestly going to cherry pick the bible to support your bigotry are you? I mean how much do you want to paint a picture of the posterboy for everything that is wrong with Christianity?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: peter vlar

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing more to say. Jesus said it all.

Leviticus was spouting what at the time was the opinion of the Jewish state. If you think everything that was part of the Jewish laws at the time is equally applicable today for everyone (actually, if you think it should have been equally applicable at the time) then that's your opinion. The three Abrahemic religions have a key issue with homosexuality mainly because it would not result in offspring which at the time was key to increasing the number of people attributed to your tribe. Abortion is another example.

That was over 2,000 years ago - should it be applicable today? Personally I think not, hence homosexuality not being a crime in at least the western world.

Perhaps you'd like to find some lines where Christ specifically mentioned Leviticus? What Christ did say was that it was not his place to change the law - he did not say he agreed with all of the laws, nor is there any record that even at the time of Christ - if you believe in him - that homosexuality was a capital offence. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it from a historical perspective.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Seede

I did forget that the main theme of this thread was gay rights.
Thank-you for reminding me of what God's word says.
In a country that has a large number of christian people living
in it.Gays do have rights to live their lives according to their
wishes.Christians can't accept and shouldn't accept a marriage
between gays.
Marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman.
Gays in muslim controlled countries are executed.I think it should
be more important to a gay person to be allowed to live then to
squabble over their rights to marry.

Marriage is NOT defined that way. There is literally ZERO mention of the definition of a marriage in the bible. The only passage that could remotely be defined as to what a marriage is, is this one:
Matthew 19: 3-7
3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?”

Which is clearly Jesus talking about not being able to get a divorce. If you notice he ISN'T saying that a man and man can't marry or a woman and a woman can't marry. People who say that are reading too far into it or taking what Jesus said out of context (usually by ignoring Matthew 19:3).

originally posted by: Seede
I have put no man or woman down,whatever that means. I have only wrote what the Apostles have taught and were taught by Christ Jesus. I am not preaching but only repeating the commands of God. I have judged no one. If you are pricked then it is because you are aware of sin. I do have a (clue) of what God wants by reading His commands.

But you don't know they were his actual commands. You guess that they are. If you wish to maintain that this is the view of god, then you must acknowledge all the other verses as valid commands as well like not eating shellfish or wearing mixed fabrics. You can't pick and choose which parts of god's word to believe.

Oh yeah, you haven't put homosexuals down, you have only said that homosexual sex is disgusting and disease ridden, referred to them as booty pumpers and called it unnatural. Those words are hateful and wrong, because 1. disease is spread from heterosexual sex. 2. it is natural as it happens in nature. Too bad that you think teaching tolerance to kids is a bad thing, and that all of our future generations should retain the bigotry and racism that your generation is notorious for. I wonder what kind of attitude you had when african americans were given the right to vote.

How can you say - "A true Christian, from what I understand, is Christ-like" - and then say - "You have an ancient story book that you think is his word, but have no actual evidence or justification to support such a claim." Isn't that silly?
Do you understand what you say? Do you understand that without that ancient story book that you do not have your "Christ Like?"

I knew you would nitpick this instead of addressing the actual points. No it's not silly because the message of Jesus is the same, whether the story is true, false, embellished, or somewhere in between. Being Christ like means you do as he would do and follow his example as he did in the gospels. The stories are there, whether they were written by god or written by man. One statement has nothing to do with the other and are not mutually exclusive. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And now you can understand exactly how a True Christian feels. It took a lot of words to finally show you exactly what we feel as Christians when you spout your hate and judgment. It is fine for your camp to insult us with your foulness but become agitated when the same applies to you.

Typical deflection from the argument. You only focused on a few select quote mines from my post, nothing tangible that supports my points or addresses the argument. I did not spout hate OR judgement. I gave my opinion on the bible. Just because you don't like this you call it hateful, but the only hate and judgement of others in this thread comes from you. I didn't say that all Christians were bad or were going to hell for being Christian. I don't look down on them as lesser people. You seem to think it's perfectly fine when the insults come from your camp, but the second anybody even hints that the bible might not be the literal word of god, you go crazy. I didn't judge you, I point out how your anti-homosexual rhetoric is wrong and that using a verse that old to condone this view is one of the main reasons this thread was created. Bigotry is bad. My statement was true. The bible was written by men at a time when 90% of the population was illiterate. Just because you don't like this fact, doesn't make it wrong. You can guess that god influenced ancient man to write it, but I can just as easily guess that he didn't since the evidence is nonexistent.

Do you think this is a game of who will win and who will lose? If you exterminated every Christian i+n the world you would only look forward to the same with Islam. Then who? If you lived a thousand lifetimes you could never win the game. If Christianity bothers you why bother it?

This is a loaded question. Why would I want to exterminate all Christians? It's funny that you insinuate that this is my viewpoint because I pointed out that your beliefs might not be as they appear. I believe that all religions can coexist together once folks realize that they are all different pathways to the same ultimate goal, rather than the "I'm right, you're wrong, my way is the only way" crap. I don't think somebody with your mindset could even tolerate such an idea. You believe that your way is the only possibly way, and as a result it leads you to looking down on people because of a verse that was written 4000+ years ago. To me, that's ridiculous, but who am I? Just another guy that is skeptical of everything, and rightfully so.

You believe in "hate the sin, not the sinner"? Well I believe in, "question the bible and it's validity, don't judge those who blindly follow it".

I have only wrote what the Apostles have taught and were taught by Christ Jesus

So you have quotes from Jesus that condemn homosexuality? How many times did Jesus use the term "booty pumper"?

You show hatred and your foul temper describes your inner self to the world. This shows that you cannot debate like a educated person should but resort to deceiving lies and unjustified half truths. You not only do not understand Christianity but you have nothing to offer anyone but hate.

All he did was demonstrate other commandments of god based on the bible and you called it hate. It was fact. The bible DOES say those things. It's funny how you can't argue against it, and try to make it about the OP himself, rather than the points. You seem to do this quite frequently.

Seede, I understand you grew up in a different generation than most of us, but it is hypocritical to denounce homosexuality due to one verse in Leviticus, while pretending the other verses that suggest things like stoning disobedient children and promiscuous women, not mixing fabrics, or eating shellfish are optional. That is called cherry picking. Do you believe it is the word of god or not? Prior to this you insinuated that it was, but countless other verses were brought to your attention and instead of addressing them you dismissed it as hate because it challenges your worldview. You can't pretend the other verses don't exist if you use the anti-gay Leviticus verse to support your intolerance of homosexuality.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Thanks for your reply ... I hear you
I have nothing else to add

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Many people read the Bible with a secular-thinking mindset.Only a person with
God's Holy Spirit living in them read the Bible with the proper mindset.An unsaved
person will use the Bible as ammunition to strike out at the believer and their beliefs.
BOTTOMLINE...
Homosexuality is a sin and is defined as a sin in God's word along with many others.
Being a homosexual is a lifestyle choice that many make.Just because nature seems
to accept homosexual feelings as normal,it's not.
The natural man is in direct conflict with the spiritual man.I will never accept a gay
marriage.I am not a homophobe,I do not hate homosexuals and I don't fear them.

a reply to: mamabeth

Oh so THAT explains why Christians are allowed to quote Jesus out of context when they falsely state that Jesus spoke on what is an isn't a marriage. Glad you cleared that up for me.

What a load of rubbish... You have any actual points to discuss here or are just going to continue to pretend that non-believers are somehow unable to read the bible properly?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't pretend,I know!Non-believers don't read the Bible with the proper mindset.

a reply to: mamabeth

Lol proper mindset? You mean the mindset that what you are reading is true? That is called confirmation bias and isn't conducive to critical thought or denying ignorance. That IS a convenient excuse to hand wave away all the intolerance and injustice throughout the bible. You are starting to prove my OP correct too.

You know I used to be Catholic. I am VERY familiar with the way Christians read the bible.

I'm still curious how you can think that Jesus spoke on what a proper marriage is. Like you are doing what the other guy did (and what I pointed out in the OP), cherrypicking passages from the bible to support your bigoted intolerances. Denying marriage to gay people for religious reasons IS an example of doing that by the way. I find it interesting that while many Christians attempt to distance themselves from the claims I made in the bible, people like you rush in to prove me right.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Sorry,but the muslims are a very serious threat to our country.The muslims
are already in our government...we have a muslim in the white house! We
have muslims in key positions in our government including the department
of homeland security.If my opinions,thoughts,ideologies...are considered
conspiracy theories.This site happens to be a conspiracy theory website!

The christians are being alienated,persecuted,ridiculed in this country and
abroad.A lot of christians are listening to preachers who tickle their ears
instead of preaching from God's word.In muslim controlled countries christians
are being slaughtered.So,they are still not a threat according to you and they
are considered too disorganized to be any real threat to the rest of us.Bye!

Fear mongering rhetoric and nothing more. Muslims integrating into this country is a good thing. We are supposed to be the land of religious freedom, and I know plenty of Mulsims that aren't extremists hell bent on Sharia law. It always takes a generation or 2 to integrate. You have this single minded idea of all Muslims being involved in some big scam to take over America with Sharia law, when it isn't even a REMOTE possibility at this point. Can you explain how a law like this would get through congress when the 85% Christian majority can't even get Christian laws and views passed as law? It sounds like you get your points straight from conservative chain emails. Don't let fear control you. "The Muslims" aren't taking over, they don't even pose a small threat at this point.

Imagine if people had this same mentality toward Christianity during the first 1500 years of it, where thousands of men women and children were slaughtered in the name of god. Christians eventually evolved beyond torture and slow painful executions for blasphemy. Mulsims can get there too. In fact Muslim extremists only make up a small percentage of Mulsims worldwide, so they are indeed getting there. It's just the fundies yell the loudest so it's all we pay attention to them.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Since I believe that we are the end times generation spoken of in revelation...
All christians will eventually be proven right and I am saddened over the non-believers
final end. Nothing more to say right now,I have to start fixing my husband's dinner.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Since I believe that we are the end times generation spoken of in revelation...
All christians will eventually be proven right and I am saddened over the non-believers
final end. Nothing more to say right now,I have to start fixing my husband's dinner.

I'm not sure why people believe that fantasy story. People have been saying since the book was written that we are in the end times. No one can get the events to align exactly as written. Many people jump to different markers exclaiming that they are signs while ignoring that other things have to happen FIRST in order for that sign to come about. The end times are probably the most ridiculous claim in the bible, but since it talks about the future, unfortunately it can never be disproven.

The thing I hate the most about believers that we are in the end times is the resignation that people such as you have for the state of the world. Feeling that since the world will end in your life time, then you don't have to do anything to try to fix it. After all God will be by in short order to do it for you. Then the ultimate slap in the face is that the the state of the world is humankind's fault 100% and end times are basically saying that only god can fix them, conveniently taking the responsibility for it out of humans' hands.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't pretend,I know!Non-believers don't read the Bible with the proper mindset.

That's a complete load of crap. I could say believers don't read the bible with the proper mindset, especially the folks that reference a 4000 year old Leviticus post to support their bigotry while hypocritically ignoring all other Leviticus laws that don't apply today. Funny how that works.

You also forget that most non believers here were raised religious and are very familiar with the bible and what it teaches, myself included. Posts like this only prove Krazysh0t correct, because you can't come up with any arguments that support your case, you just put others down and claim they don't understand the bible, but have no reason to even suggest that. It's an ego thing and it's a shame.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Since I believe that we are the end times generation spoken of in revelation...
All christians will eventually be proven right and I am saddened over the non-believers
final end. Nothing more to say right now,I have to start fixing my husband's dinner.

I just wonder, let's for sake of argument assume because you have husband that you have children, and that 'end time' occur and in your 'future' you are among those proven right, but all people you love and care in this life go to 'other side'...

Would you really still select to live that forever 'after life' without them??

Just think about it, this is exactly what Muslims believe, same thing that Jews believe or nomad in Africa who believes in Ju-Ju on the top of the mountain...

It is possible we are wrong, you are right, but, what if you are wrong??

a reply to: Barcs

Please show me where I put other people down? Is it because I don't accept
the gay lifestyle that is putting you down?
Grow a backbone.There are a lot of people who don't like me and some even
hate me.Do I let myself get bent out of shape over it? The answer is no!

a reply to: mamabeth

Grow a backbone? I'm not upset or offended, I'm just calling it like I see it. You falsely suggested that non believers do not understand the bible rather than actually explaining the verses in question. Then you proclaimed that you know you are right and that you feel sad for non believers, once again putting your beliefs on a pedestal and looking down on everyone else. It doesn't bother me personally, it's just poor form in a discussion, IMO. Anybody can proclaim they are right and the other person is wrong, but it doesn't get us anywhere in the discussion. What about the other Leviticus verses?

Is the bible the infallible word of god? If yes, then why are people only cherry picking certain verses to believe as true? You can't really have it both ways. Either all of Leviticus is the word of god and its commandments should all apply today, or it is entirely subjective to interpretation INCLUDING the anti gay verse. Which one is it? Why are so many folks today so strongly in support of the anti gay verse in question, but not the other ones? Why aren't Christian fundie groups protesting seafood chef and fashion designer funerals?

a reply to: Barcs

1.I am a woman and for the most part women are always right.
2.The real problem here is that gays are getting their shorts twisted into knots
because many people don't accept their lifestyle choices.
3.We live by grace not by the law.
4.People who don't think like you and the op are always treated like they are mentally retarded,
or just plain ignorant and need "educated" by you enlightened ones.
5.Threads like this one get a lot of attention,flags and stars because they always attack
the Bible,christians and anyone who doesn't accept the gay lifestyle as normal.Like I
said earlier,they just keep stirring that old poo pot over and over again.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Barcs

1.I am a woman and for the most part women are always right.

O dear, I can't imagine how poor being is your husband...

originally posted by: mamabeth
2.The real problem here is that gays are getting their shorts twisted into knots
because many people don't accept their lifestyle choices.

It is established that being a gay is not a style.

originally posted by: mamabeth
3.We live by grace not by the law.

You mean, love all beings like you love yourself... interesting....

originally posted by: mamabeth
4.People who don't think like you and the op are always treated like they are mentally retarded,
or just plain ignorant and need "educated" by you enlightened ones.

Really? Why would you feel like that? Is education really that bad?
When I was kid, someone told me that humans learn all life...

originally posted by: mamabeth
5.Threads like this one get a lot of attention,flags and stars because they always attack
the Bible,christians and anyone who doesn't accept the gay lifestyle as normal.Like I
said earlier,they just keep stirring that old poo pot over and over again.

Actually, thread like this deserve attention, as it points to centuries of unjust prosecution from religious people for no apparent reason. Really, you don't even have ground on your book to judge them, yet you are not short of judging... Isn't your holly book teaching in you not to do it??

You failed to answer my other post, please do so... I really like to hear what would you do... (I know what I would do... show middle finger and go to my family, no matter where they are... )

a reply to: SuperFrog

1.I did say for the most part women are always right.My husband is very grateful
for having a very loving and devoted wife.
2.Being gay, in my opinion, will always be a lifestyle choice.
3.We live by grace because everything else was nailed to the cross when Yeshua
was crucified.