Sooner or Later We All Must Completely Surrender to Reality

originally posted by: Visitor2012
There's no such thing as a 'separate self sense'. Everything you sense IS yourself.

I agree that the sense of separate self is an illusion because it is actually an activity - this activity is the creating of a point-of-view, moment to moment, via the mechanism of attention. This focusing activity yields a sense of separation, the "knower", that we identify as "I", but it is just an activity, not an actual entity, that occurs in unqualified awareness or consciousness.

Everything we sense is just a perception occurring in awareness. We are not any perception, thought, anything conditional. We are awareness - ultimately the unconditional consciousness in which everything is a modification. But that is a great realization.

originally posted by: Visitor2012
There's no such thing as 'completely one with the source', because You are not with the source...you ARE the source. There is no combiner to the Self.

Well if we want to get that specific in terms of wording, even using the word "You" is incorrect. There is no "You" or "I" about it. There is only Being or Consciousness.

a reply to: bb23108

I didn't mean to imply that I don't think there is a Divine Reality. It's just that nothing can be separate from Reality, so I don't see how a Creator God creates objects as though that God is separate from the created objects

I agree that a Creator is not separate from it's Creation ... I think of it like this ... I create a painting by putting something of myself into the painting ... the painting is separate from me but it contains my ideas and a part of my essence ... In fact what I love about painting is that my paintings will still be here on Earth many years after I have departed it. As will what any leave to the world ... it can be our children and the values we teach them ...

I have many friends who are now departed but still they remain with me ... they come to mind in many situations almost like advisor's ... the things and ideas we have spoken about ... sometimes in situations when things they have said come to mind a penny will drop and I will finally understand what they meant.

As for the original source of the Universe and all it's dimensions ... I believe that the Universe is the ideas and thoughts of it manifested
We are Creators also as the stars are creators ... like children of the Creator ... we are deeply connected

What heartens me and allows me to surrender is knowing there is something far greater than little old me ... it makes me feel safe and loved ... and though the thought of death can cause apprehension my fear of it is negligible ...

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm on a life long quest to make reality surrender to me, and do what I want.

Oh, and everything is everything. It all comes from, exists, and goes back to itself.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm on a life long quest to make reality surrender to me, and do what I want.

Lol ... Good luck with that Mystic ... have you tried cat herding

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm on a life long quest to make reality surrender to me, and do what I want.

LOL! Good luck with that!

Well, at least you recognize it will just be life-long, since at the end reality will NOT be the one doing the surrendering!

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm on a life long quest to make reality surrender to me, and do what I want.

Oh, and everything is everything. It all comes from, exists, and goes back to itself.

I am sure you have already done it. Ha ha...mushroom eaters.

a reply to: bb23108

Well if we want to get that specific in terms of wording, even using the word "You" is incorrect. There is no "You" or "I" about it. There is only Being or Consciousness.

There is no you, but there's most certainly an I.

a reply to: bb23108

Which reality would that be again? The one we come from or the one we are presently experiencing? For now I'll surrender and carpe cervesi followed by uxor.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: bb23108

Which reality would that be again? The one we come from or the one we are presently experiencing? For now I'll surrender and carpe cervesi followed by uxor.

Cheers - Dave

Or the reality we are heading into in a micro second?

a reply to: bb23108

Yes we are dependent on various things of our environment for food, water etc., but this is because we are separate from them. If we weren’t in some way separate from what we are dependent upon, we wouldn’t need to depend on them.

As for your thought experiment, we seem separate because we are separate. This point-of-view mechanism you speak of is the brute fact that we do not occupy the same place at the same time. Not only a figurative point-of-view, but a literal one: you viewing from yourself, me viewing from myself. If we were not separate, it would not seem like we have separate points of view at all.

When I think of “connection”, at least philosophically and not in a vernacular sense, I think of something like an umbilical cord, or something fused to another so that they are one. Because we share an area or air does not imply a such a connection, however. Sharing, relation, dependence, all require that there are more than one separate independent objects.

“Perception” is too dubious a word for my liking. As we’ve discussed before, it implies a container in which percepts reside. We are not looking into some container called perception, nor does any sort of sensual periphery come out of our senses like a spot-light and engulf an object like fog. We are viewing outside ourselves. I don’t think that because we can see or hear something, that we are connected to them on that account.

I hope these criticisms help strengthen your ideas further.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm on a life long quest to make reality surrender to me, and do what I want.

Lol ... Good luck with that Mystic ... have you tried cat herding

Oh, it's entirely possible to manifest things. I'm not very good at it yet. Remember, thoughts become things. Everything you see with your two eyes that's man-made at one time was a thought in someone's head.

How we feel influences how we think, and our thoughts influence our perception. Our perception becomes our reality.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
Which reality would that be again? The one we come from or the one we are presently experiencing?

So you figure there are (at least) two realities?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: bb23108

Which reality would that be again? The one we come from or the one we are presently experiencing? For now I'll surrender and carpe cervesi followed by uxor.

Cheers - Dave

Or the reality we are heading into in a micro second?

From a probabilistic vantage, that would be the virtual reality we presently operate within.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
Which reality would that be again? The one we come from or the one we are presently experiencing?

So you figure there are (at least) two realities?

No, just two. The one where we "actually" exist (reality, where the mind exists) and the one where we "appear" to exist (virtual reality - this one, where the brain acts as an organic data acquisition and control system for the mind).

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Visitor2012

There is no you, but there's most certainly an I. ;

And who is this "I" you refer to?

Also, do you have any comments about the opening post?

a reply to: bobs_uruncle
I need to understand your terminology.

Your use of the word mind - does that equate to awareness?

Is the brain function you described equivalent to perception?

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: bobs_uruncle
I need to understand your terminology.

Your use of the word mind - does that equate to awareness?

Is the brain function you described equivalent to perception?

Look at it this way, mind is who you are, brain is your interface to this virtual reality. IMHO what we deem reality is actually like a ride, a seemingly "solid" multidimensional movie. There is a great deal of emerging scientific research that seems to solidify this view of our "bondage" within this virtual reality construct.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Yes we are dependent on various things of our environment for food, water etc., but this is because we are separate from them. If we weren’t in some way separate from what we are dependent upon, we wouldn’t need to depend on them.

My point is that I (as a body-mind) am dependent on the environment. In fact, I am a product of the environment - and such dependence does not justify a continuous presumption that I (as a body-mind) am an actual independent entity, separate from everything.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
When I think of “connection”, at least philosophically and not in a vernacular sense, I think of something like an umbilical cord, or something fused to another so that they are one. Because we share an area or air does not imply a such a connection, however. Sharing, relation, dependence, all require that there are more than one separate independent objects.

Using the word "connected" in the vernacular sense, when you are with say your lover or a close friend, you just feel entirely separate from them? You don't feel more connected to them than separate from them? When you are in relationship to someone, it implies a connection, not a separation.

When you fall into real laughter with someone, isn't there a sense of joyous relatedness, not separation?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
“Perception” is too dubious a word for my liking. As we’ve discussed before, it implies a container in which percepts reside. We are not looking into some container called perception, nor does any sort of sensual periphery come out of our senses like a spot-light and engulf an object like fog. We are viewing outside ourselves. I don’t think that because we can see or hear something, that we are connected to them on that account.

Yes, we definitely have a difference here. I still contend that we never experience anything outside of perception. But regardless, when we engage one another, we are minimally relating to one another, and again, this does not justify a view that we are completely independent entities. If we were completely independent entities, we would be self-contained units with no connectivity or relational capacity at all.

Look at your hand - it is all about relatedness - extending the body's functions for grasping something, for creating, for holding or touching someone, etc. We are built for relating to others and things. This whole world is all about relatedness, not separation.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I hope these criticisms help strengthen your ideas further.

Yes, I find our conversations do this. Thank you, LesMis.

Surrender to which reality, Heaven or hell? If you choose the world's logic of apathy and greed, that is still hell's reality.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
Look at it this way, mind is who you are, brain is your interface to this virtual reality. IMHO what we deem reality is actually like a ride, a seemingly "solid" multidimensional movie. There is a great deal of emerging scientific research that seems to solidify this view of our "bondage" within this virtual reality construct.

Yes, I agree with you about our virtual reality construct. I have had many discussions about how we never experience anything apart from awareness.

When we perceive an object, we are actually perceiving an image of that object, and given the time it takes for this perception to be created, processed, and registered, the object in reality could have actually changed.

So we are not only perceiving an image of the object (not the object itself), but also the image is a memory of whatever we are apparently viewing.

Given we never perceive an actual object in the present, as it is, yes, we have a virtual reality that we live in and believe is altogether real.