Sooner or Later We All Must Completely Surrender to Reality

We appear in a world of relationships, and these body-minds are completely dependent on the environment in which it appears. Deprive the body of certain essentials and it is dead very soon thereafter.

Our body-mind's complete dependence is therefore obvious. However, we generally presume something very different - that we (as the body-mind) are independent, separate entities appearing over against this vast field of relatedness. We then typically base our entire life on this assumption of being independent, and any thoughts and impact of a complete dependence are basically minimized.

And certainly to consider surrendering to this reality (of our inherent relatedness that we all clearly appear in), is completely out of the question for most of us. This concept of surrender is particularly anathema in the West. We have a long history of independence and we equate that with freedom itself.

Even most of our Western revisions of Eastern spirituality (which has always required surrender to reality), leaves this essential element out of the picture. Me surrender? NEVER!

However, we tend to surrender everyday to what is much much less than this vast reality of relatedness. We surrender to a constant flood of thinking and mental abstraction from life, to all kinds of cravings in the realm of food, money, sex, power, endless consumerism, etc., etc., etc. - most of the time, very indiscriminately, and fundamentally as a means of furthering our sense of independence.

Over time we may begin to feel all of this is not actually very satisfying, and certainly not permanently satsifying. So we start to look elsewhere. Many of us go inward looking for some great enlightenment or vision or some other spiritual consolation that will make us feel good about our independent separate self.

This introverted seeking for spiritual experiences is what has been done in the East for thousands of years, and also to a lesser degree in the West. In the West, this introversion has mainly been concerned with constant thinking and abstraction, but the same effect is assured - a sense of separate independent existence.

Regardless of origin, we tend to look to be consoled in our sense of separation. But we never are ultimately fulfilled - many of us have noticed this! And unfortunately, most people only continue doing what everyone else seems to be doing: Trying to fulfill oneself as much as possible as some kind of independent entity - until the body-mind becomes sick, old, suffering, and dies sooner or later. "Well he lived a full life," we might say - and then get back to our version of it.

In those final moments of life, the whole body-mind complex is required to completely surrender to this reality of our actual dependence. But why wait until then if it is already completely obvious that we, as body-minds, are not independent or separate entities, but that we all arise in a vast field of relatedness, completely dependent, connected, and not inherently separate in reality?

That is our actual reality, so why not surrender to this actuality and at least get in a participatory position to let reality unfold its truth?

Why do so many us think that we must absolutely go inward and away from here to actually find the truth? Nothing exists outside of reality, so it must be as present right here as anywhere else.

To find out what is true or not we must embrace our actual dependent situation here openly and fully, rather than constantly trying to assert and satisfy our independent false notions.

It has been my experience that this continuous embrace of this reality of our relatedness grants the body-mind a sense of its natural wholeness and the capacity to feel deeply (to love and to feel loved), equanimity, to think more clearly, to feel much more energy, light, and discriminative awareness of my whole situation - than I ever did before when I presumed that complete independence was the way to go.

On this basis, I do meditate and practice various supportive disciplines, but I understand this must always be done on the basis of being in relationship with reality itself, otherwise it is just more of the same old independent, separative gesturing as before.

Such practices do not exclude any inward experiences, but it is also not a matter of seeking for them.

Of course, I don't expect what I go through personally, to be of any real use to anyone because one will only participate in life completely fully, with great feeling awareness, when one sees the activity of separative independence they create moment-to-moment, as a false basis for truly participating in and discovering reality's truth.

This relatedness is always the case - one must simply relax and notice in each moment we are never actually separate except through our own internal activity to create a sense of being separate, abstracted, of being an independent entity.

And that separative activity is our very suffering! We are actually doing this to ourselves! In each moment that one really notices this, you will just stop doing it because it hurts.

You can also notice that when you don't do this activity, the body-mind feels whole, not as a mind over against the body - and the great energy of feeling this relatedness is available to you. In this disposition reality will avail itself to you and reveal whatever and however it reveals it, such as whether we actually exist after the death of the body-mind, etc., etc.

It requires surrender of our search to be independent in each moment - in order to truly notice our actual reality. Once we notice this, embrace it fully and open-heartedly. When you see you fall back to wanting to be something we are inherently not - i.e., separate and independent - notice this is suffering, non-participatory, a constriction of the body-mind and the flow of energy through it - and that this hurts.

Then when we are dying, we will already have the capacity to fully surrender to whatever that process is altogether, rather than it being a great and fearful struggle.

What other way could we possibly find out the truth of our actual situation here, given any other approach is fundamentally based on a false assumption that we are independent separate entities?

Thank you for your reading and consideration.

What do you think?

a reply to: bb23108
Sooner or Later We All Must Completely Surrender to Reality

What do you think?

I Reject Your Reality and Substitute My Own

Then again, each of us is a unique individual which, one could say, makes each one of us totally separate in body, mind and spirit, yet, not so completely. For as we tread through this reality and experience our realities and share ours and others' realities, there are many commonalities of the various dimensions of realities that we share and yet some can never share, that some can never realize due to various factors.

Does the real question here centre around accepting one's imminent death early on in life, then freeing oneself to experience all of life's realities in a more open and free manner in all ways?

An important habit to create is to pause throughout the day and be grateful while you are in the midst of it.

Look up at the sky on your lunch break and notice the beauty of the clouds; watch your children as they play in the pool, more joyful than any adult could possibly be; and most obviously, stop and smell the roses.

tinybuddha.com...

I always stop and smell the roses.

a reply to: bb23108

Besides the 'new age' philosophy of we are all one, I agree we will all face the ultimate reality sooner than we think.

We are each individual yet connected ... Consider the Human Race is like a tree for example ... It has many branches ... as individuals we are but leafs upon it.

The tree is also individual but co dependent ... a part of a forest for example ... dependent upon the elements of Earth
The Earth is dependent upon the Sun

We are individuals only in the choices we make ... how to live our lives within our community and the greater community we call the world

Who grows your food
Makes your clothing
makes the keyboard you are typing on

Selfishness goes against our natural state of being

As for surrender ... Yes we are not the be all and all of everything ... though each is special in their own way
We must all surrender to Death eventually ... and most do come to an acceptance naturally ... I have witnessed this occur

I think what is most important is what connects us ... and we are truly connected to the Universe
To the source of what created it ...

I personally believe in the soul ... but even if I did not ... then still am connected ... My body will return to the Earth ... to be recycled ...

For me the most important thing is understanding we are more than this body ... we are soul ... this is what helps me accept and surrender to the greater Soul

Its not even the ultimate reality we all have to face. Everyone has got to eat and survive.

You can get as spiritual & philosophic as you want, but it won't change the fact that you have to deal with the everyday mundane(ness) or it all, there's really no getting around that. At least if your prepared to see it out to the end.

The ultimate truth (being death) is the least of it.

originally posted by: InTheLight
Then again, each of us is a unique individual which, one could say, makes each one of us totally separate in body, mind and spirit, yet, not so completely.

We are apparently separate as body-minds defined in objective terms, but these body-minds are utterly dependent on the world to survive. Where does one's body-mind end in terms of the room you are sitting in? It is constantly changing, exchanging elements with the surroundings, etc. in a completely dependent connected manner. Everything appearing is in relationship.

There is nothing that is completely independent, but we presume that we are at a fundamental level, because we tend to identify with a sense of separate self-identity inside the body-mind. This is the false presumption I am pointing to.

originally posted by: InTheLight
Does the real question here centre around accepting one's imminent death early on in life, then freeing oneself to experience all of life's realities in a more open and free manner in all ways?

The fact that we are not even guaranteed our next breath certainly should make us more serious about what truth is.

An important habit to create is to pause throughout the day and be grateful while you are in the midst of it.

Definitely. Same with taking time to drop out each day and just relax into the utter feeling of relatedness that we appear in and that pervades all. When one truly does this, the conscious light and energy we appear in and as, begins to change everything.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: bb23108

Besides the 'new age' philosophy of we are all one, I agree we will all face the ultimate reality sooner than we think.

"Oh untimely death." Yes, this is true.

From the standpoint of the body-mind, obviously we are not all one - but we are also not independent.

a reply to: bb23108

I think a lot of it has to do with disparities. Capitalism has taken over most of the worlds currency. If it was done in it's original state, it should last untold generations. However, we have many consumed by themselves taking that of which doesn't belong to anyone. By this I mean natural resources. I love capitalism, hate cronyism and swinging toward communism being the futures alternative. I didn't before because people didn't want to work as hard as others and get paid less. Well, now we are working on better automation. The kind of automation that changes societies. The time when men have less jobs and everyone is relying on machines is almost here.




Even though there was bigotry in the early 1900's that should not be excused, just look at how people treated their "communities". Wealth was flowing much better post 40's and there was SEEMINGLY love in the air... Maybe that's just my American education/history lessons have taught me. Who really knows the truth of the past anymore... hell I learned ghandi was a bigot just the other day in a thread.

a reply to: bb23108

We are apparently separate as body-minds defined in objective terms, but these body-minds are utterly dependent on the world to survive. Where does one's body-mind end in terms of the room you are sitting in? It is constantly changing, exchanging elements with the surroundings, etc. in a completely dependent connected manner. Everything appearing is in relationship.

There is nothing that is completely independent, but we presume that we are at a fundamental level, because we tend to identify with a sense of separate self-identity inside the body-mind. This is the false presumption I am pointing to.

Of course we are dependent many factors for survival, however, without a separate sense of self inside the body-mind some of us would never be able to soar to higher heights.



changingminds.org...

a reply to: bb23108

I read half your post and it repeated a little so I'll read the rest in a second, because I can't think when that happens. No disrespect I am truly about to read it. I take my time these days trying to really get to know people, because this is OUR life, not mine.

This has been a battle my whole life. I have always been of a strong mind, both intelligence and stubborn is meant out of that.

I have wanted independence so bad that I wished I was dead at a young age. Because life meant I had to breathe, and drink water.. I was dependent. And WORSE there were other humans.. Humans that would talk to me, and all of human history that I am trapped in the momentum of.. Stupid humans getting in my way.. Somehow I was also always super nice. I don't know how that works but whatever.

"It's Not Fair!"

was my center thought. The closest of the core of most of my existence. Somewhere in the mix, and this thing has always looked evil to me. Somewhere in there, I realized I was fighting the ONE. I realized God was real and I was part of it. OR this word may be too loaded.. Let's instead go back.. I realized I was fighting the Universe. The universe was evil for trapping me here. I had such Luciferian ideals.

I've recently understood, and accepted my place. I always judged christians for being sheep. Literally Sheep. The Shepherds Sheep. It says that.. Geez guys, if you want to be that, I'm going to go over here, pretend I didn't hear that, and secretly look at ways I can make sure you guys stay out of power, which should be easy since you want to be sheep..

But odd thing life is.. The Irony is strong with this one.

I don't want to be free of the relativity that is all things. I don't want out of the matrix anymore.


And in fact I am so happy these days caring about what other people think. Caring about how other people feel (I always did), but now I have gotten past my selfishness. I meditate from time to time, but I fell into the trappings with that one, So I keep my distance..

Buddhism is close, but I don't know that getting rid of all suffering in ones own life is really the point. I think leave all the relativity. Become more active in the people around you. Let's play this life like a video game.


Know my first thought about the separateness and how it is basically pain? I was drinking a coke, and realized the coke was ina can. The coke was protected from the air and my hand by a wall of metal.. And then I saw in my head a grocery store filled with cans, and bottles, and boxes and bags, and my mind spread out, and there are walls, and doors and fences.....

Our entire lives are built around separating things.. But when you look into reality everything effects everything else, and I am greatful for my interconnected life.. My body star dust, with dirt under my finger nails from dead grasses.. bacteria inside and all over.. cells all working together.. Where does the line from me start and the line from "earth" begin?? IT doesn't..

It's all one thing.

To top it all off you can feel what it feels like to be other things, as all things are relative. You can relate.. Be more than yourself.



Ok back to reading the rest.

originally posted by: artistpoet
I personally believe in the soul ... but even if I did not ... then still am connected ... My body will return to the Earth ... to be recycled ...

For me the most important thing is understanding we are more than this body ... we are soul ... this is what helps me accept and surrender to the greater Soul

Just like with the body-mind, we have subtle and causal bodies, that also can be differentiated from other such bodies - and generally the soul is associated with these higher bodies. In that sense, souls can be "objectified" just like the body-mind can be, and said to be unique and individual.

But still, the soul in its individuated form, still appears dependent in relationship - not a separate independent entity.

But I am not sure how you are defining soul, so if you can elaborate if what I say above is not what you mean by the soul, please do.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: bb23108

Besides the 'new age' philosophy of we are all one, I agree we will all face the ultimate reality sooner than we think.

It's one of the OLDEST ideas ever..

It's the idea, that brings about the Golden Rule...

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Its not even the ultimate reality we all have to face. Everyone has got to eat and survive.

You can get as spiritual & philosophic as you want, but it won't change the fact that you have to deal with the everyday mundane(ness) or it all, there's really no getting around that. At least if your prepared to see it out to the end.

The ultimate truth (being death) is the least of it.

Oh I wasn't implying the ultimate truth is death. And yes, we do have to survive as individuated body-minds, but presuming we are independent entities apart from all else, is not actually the way things are, so in my experience this can actually hinder one's survival.

Being connected, in relationship, actually feeling that through and through, is what enlivens life and others, and brings real discrimination to the front - again, in my experience.

originally posted by: bb23108

We are apparently separate as body-minds defined in objective terms, but these body-minds are utterly dependent on the world to survive. Where does one's body-mind end in terms of the room you are sitting in? It is constantly changing, exchanging elements with the surroundings, etc. in a completely dependent connected manner. Everything appearing is in relationship.

THis is important.. I call this how BIG your consciousness is. You feel like your surroundings. you have blue walls, or are they BLACK.. Or are you in the field feeling the wind seeing it blow all around you in the field waving all the grass, and the flowers.. AAhhhhh doesn't the sunlight feel so good on your leaves as you SSTTRREEECCHHH towards the Sky?

I notice at work I can become more conscious of more and more things. I have to be because I am baby sitting 11 machines, and a few people..

I can put it like this.. My brain is an extension of my mind, my nerves are an extension of my brain. My fingers are an extension of my nerves, my keyboard and extension, my computer, internet connection, Abovetopsecret, this thread, and here I am..

And here WE Are.



And in reverse, taken all the way... it's all one consciousness.. Though there are levels above the mind, that are still separate things.. I imagine.

originally posted by: Antipathy17
a reply to: bb23108

I think a lot of it has to do with disparities.

Yes, I agree with you. We find injustices everywhere - this world is definitely a very difficult, even sorrowful domain - I mean just the fact that we love others and they die, makes it obvious this place is no heaven-world or utopia.

But this difficulty should not keep us from loving, nor recognizing and living on the basis of our inherent relatedness - even in the face of all the ordeals we do encounter.

Thank you.

originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Its not even the ultimate reality we all have to face. Everyone has got to eat and survive.

You can get as spiritual & philosophic as you want, but it won't change the fact that you have to deal with the everyday mundane(ness) or it all, there's really no getting around that. At least if your prepared to see it out to the end.

The ultimate truth (being death) is the least of it.

Oh I wasn't implying the ultimate truth is death. And yes, we do have to survive as individuated body-minds, but presuming we are independent entities apart from all else, is not actually the way things are, so in my experience this can actually hinder one's survival.

Being connected, in relationship, actually feeling that through and through, is what enlivens life and others, and brings real discrimination to the front - again, in my experience.

Then there are 'opposites attract' and connections between entities can be both opposite and the same or a little off (quirky), because there are many ways to survive and enliven the life of others' without discrimination, which is judging in a negative manner, perhaps due to narrow mindedness.

a reply to: bb23108

Just like with the body-mind, we have subtle and causal bodies, that also can be differentiated from other such bodies - and generally the soul is associated with these higher bodies. In that sense, souls can be "objectified" just like the body-mind can be, and said to be unique and individual.

But still, the soul in its individuated form, still appears dependent in relationship - not a separate independent entity.

But I am not sure how you are defining soul, so if you can elaborate if what I say above is not what you mean by the soul, please do.

I can relate to how you describe some aspects of the soul
By mentioning soul ... I was not dis agreeing with you

The soul is individual but also connected and co dependent on the Greater Soul ...

Though not all souls are the same ... as not all people are the same ...
There are many layers to the Onion ... to use an old phrase

originally posted by: artistpoet


Though not all souls are the same ... as not all people are the same ...
There are many layers to the Onion ... to use an old phrase

That's a perfect analogy. It sends images in my head when I was a kid, and my mom wanted me to peel an onion for Beef Stew.. I started pulling off the outer skin, but then did I pull off the same amount all the way around? I can't tell is that still peeling or is that "the onion" now... Ok a bit more, no is that a layer? Oops broke off a thicker piece, bet I went too far..

It has layers, but at the same time even the layers are kind of shady as to what defines clearly a layer..

And in the end or the beginning I should say.. It's just an onion. Skin and all.


That is Life.


All scientists can do is break things down smaller smaller what's in that? And in that? And pretty soon my room is filled with transistors and wires capacitors and batteries, charges, electrons... But it's just a pile of things...
Sooner or later someone has to smack you and say it's a COMPUTER stupid.

hehe

a reply to: bb23108

Ok I went back and read the second half now.. I realize I thought you were repeating because I already knew what your whole post was going to be about.. Not because it was actually repeating. I am glad you took the time, to bring me on that journey.. Pointing things out, and then knowing what someone might think to those words, and explaining that next thought..

Body and mind together.. The Truth is IN the world..

All of it..

I've been on this train for the last few weeks.

It's like you are posting out of my head haha.


In fact let's get slightly dark for one moment.. I think almost all of the other stuff.. I think there is a LOT of mind control going on in this Earth.
Separate, divide, conquer. The truth is over the rainbow, if you can juuusstt make it a little higher... No forget the body.. the Soul is the only true thing.. No body body hair how do you look makeup.. No.. It's all in your head this is an illusion...

Man this world ha. It's one heck of a trip. Being, is the Truth.