Five different stores make sudden announcement, claiming “plumbing” issues

a reply to: Crowdpsychology

Firstly, trying to imply that we're shills or whatever you're trying to imply by calling him my buddy and saying I'm helping him out...whatever.

I was just pointing out there are plenty of sources.

So we can see that the Walmart spokesperson seems to feel like they don't have anything to worry about regarding the unions injunction in connection the closed stores.

Really? What would you expect the spokesperson to say? Yes we did close those stores because of that and now we're in trouble? Come on...

a reply to: DelMarvel

A big part of the reason people "look at you as if you were crazy" when you talk about real conspiracies is because the truth has been associated with all the tin foil hat crappola such as what you find on this thread and everywhere else on the internets.

No, because cognitive dissonance and cognitive bias are heavily involved in the psychological aspects when it comes to people who are being subjected to "contradictory" evidence. The thing about "tin foil hat crappola" as you put it, is that many outraging conspiracies and different theories within them have been fabricated by the intelligence complex themselves, all in the name of misinformation in relation to flooding of genuine conspiracies as well as building up the idea that ALL conspiracies are constructed and researched by paranoid and crazy people. Pretty nifty technique but unfortunately for them, both me and many other can see through this and have the ability to sift through great amounts of information to find legit connections to the matter.

And if you want wild speculation about organized dis/misinformation, it's pretty interesting how Walmart closes these stores and almost instantly this Jade Helm story appears fully formed all over the web.

I have addressed this in previous comments, that there could be a psychological aspect involved in the fast and growing conspiracies regarding Jade Helm 15 and Walmart. I have also stated that it's possible that the intelligence complex has been behind the creation of the early theories connecting them both, in an effort to collect and analyze how people react to the information.

Looks like you're not reading all of the thread, either.
I posted a link to the New York Times article about this on the previous page.

Well, you got me there. I was to busy responding to a comment on the latest page which addressed me. But at least I'm not missing any important facts from 10+ pages back, which involved - 2 more states being added to the exercise, one of which so happened to include 1 of the closed Walmart stores. Articles which states that workers are arguing that the closing of their store (singular) have a connection to union-related matters is hardly of importance. We already know that there are union-ties to Pico Rivera, hence previous comments from members about their protest november 2014. As far as I can see the only union-connection the news outlets now are making is to Pico Rivera, which of course is self-explainable because of their pro-union and protest history.

As far as I'm concerned there are more ties between the stores locations and Jade Helm 15, than there is about union connections to all 5 stores, in regard to the "latest" news concerning the injunction.. So in connection to this latest news lets see where we stand..

- 4/5 stores located in states involved in Jade Helm 15.
- 1/5 stores located in a neighboring hostile state involved in the exercise.
- 3/5 stores located in "hostile" states (1/3 located in a red/blue state, with close proximity to the red patch)
- 5/5 stores closed during the same time as Jade Helm 15.
- 5/5 stores finishes their "renovation" at the same time as the exercise ends.
- 5/5 stores are situated very close or in driving distance to military based involved during the exercise.
- 5/5 stores have a partnership with DHS/FEMA, regarding their role in disaster/crisis/emergency management.

V/S

1/5 stores (Pico Rivera) have strong connections to protests and pro-union activity and it's the only location being quoted in regard to the injunction.

Pretty even, right!?

a reply to: MysterX

Nice find and weird coincidence..

This is what I could find when doing a quick search on the mansion:

A major renovation of the mansion was undertaken in 1995, during the term of Governor Frank Keating. Oklahomans were invited to participate in the effort and many responded enthusiastically. Individuals and organizations donated time, talent and gifts, and successfully restored the mansion to its original glory, while simultaneously adding many modern conveniences.

As renovation efforts were undertaken on the mansion, FRIENDS OF THE MANSION, INC. was formed to help maintain the house and its furnishings for future generations. Members of this organization work to raise money, and to allocate donations, art exhibitions and special event at or for the mansion.

www.ok.gov...

Capitol architect Duane Mass said the projects involve operations and maintenance. Work would be done on the Phillips Pavilion, including repairs to heating and air conditioning, paint and wallpaper. The pavilion is a meeting locale on the mansion grounds. The heating and cooling system in the mansion is worn out and a more efficient system is needed, Mass said. The basement has been leaking for some time and needs waterproofing, he said. Many of the windows have rot and need to be rebuilt, Mass said, adding that work needs to be done to the shutters. “We are not changing a thing,” Mass said. “We are just fixing broken things.” Ross said the project involves maintenance, not restoration. Officials are also looking into the possibly of adding a storm shelter, Mass said.

www.tulsaworld.com... df5.html

One thing is sure, Friends Of The Mansion Inc. seems to have been playing in the pool and sunbathing instead of doing what their main goal was, to do maintenance on the mansion.

originally posted by: Crowdpsychology
5) Not be located within driving distances from military bases within states participating in the exercise.

You mean like Camp Pendleton being 95 miles from Los Angeles?

Or Fort Bliss being THREE HUNDRED MILES from Midland, Texas?

With many, many Walmarts being closer in both cases?

And this is an example of how you "sift through great amounts of information to find legit connections"?

a reply to: Pimpish

You sure talk in a group sense, referring to ”them” and ”we" when addressing statements in comments. But anyway, I'm sorry if I offended you, not my intention. I merely call what I see, that's all.

Really? What would you expect the spokesperson to say? Yes we did close those stores because of that and now we're in trouble? Come on..

A classic "No comment" would be sufficient, it seems like the classic response officials like to use during a sensitive situation. But instead of pulling that card the spokesperson said: “We don’t believe there is any basis for an injunction.” According to me it would be pretty sloppy to give that statement if union-busting was in fact the reason of closing 5 stores, because that statement would most certainly not help them if the union could dig up evidence that supports their claim. I'm just speculating here, but if he said it based on knowledge that there is no basis for an injunction, then Walmart must have a legitimate reason. We know that "plumbing issues" are bogus, based on the lack of permits and the 6 month timeline, that leads me to believe that some sort of work on the infrastructure could be reasonable or/and something related to the government and their role in crisis/disaster/emergency management.

I seriously don't understand why both You, DelMarvel and tanka418 are denying that their could be a connection between the 5 closed stores and Jade Helm 15, while systematically embracing everything else except that notion..

What exactly are you afraid of?

Double post.. Mod, feel free to delete, Thanks!

a reply to: DelMarvel

You mean like Camp Pendleton being 95 miles from Los Angeles?
Or Fort Bliss being THREE HUNDRED MILES from Midland, Texas?
With many, many Walmarts being closer in both cases?
And this is an example of how you "sift through great amounts of information to find legit connections"?

Hahaha, you are hilarious! Like both me and many other members have stated you and your tag-teaming buddies are solely picking out tiny bits of information in which you feel you can use agains an already proven statement. There is no denial regarding the connections between locations of the 5 stores and the Jade Helm 15 exercise. None whatsoever! I have presented them to both you and your tag-teaming buddies, but guess what, you guys continue to ignore them while sniffing for more small bits and pieces you can use in you pathetic quest. Sad and funny at the same time.. Yeah, and btw, if you scream a little louder maybe members will start to listen to you, great approach. Both you and your tag-teaming buddies use this strategy, a little odd and almost too similar, almost as similar as the stars you guys get..

And btw, what's wrong with presenting distances between the 5 stores and the closest military base? I'll ask you the same question as I did Pimpish, What exactly are you afraid of?

Tulsa Air National Guard Base - Walmart, Tulsa, Oklahoma - 11 min
MacDill Air Force Base - Walmart, Brandon, Florida - 26 min
Ellington Field Joint Reserve Base - Walmart, Livingston, Texas - 1h, 28 min
US Marine base Camp Pendleton - Walmart, Pico Rivera, California - 1 h, 51min
Fort Bliss, El Paso - Walmart, North Midland, Texas - 4h, 12 min

If you can't drive that distance in a day, you better give your soapbox-car to the kid down the street and go get yourself some real wheels. Possible reasons on why these particular stores may have been chosen are stated in the first post on page 26.

Take care now!

a reply to: Crowdpsychology

I seriously don't understand why both You, DelMarvel and tanka418 are denying that their could be a connection between the 5 closed stores and Jade Helm 15, while systematically embracing everything else except that notion..

Never once did I deny there could be a chance. There could definitely be a chance. I just think that chance is way low and it's much, much more likely to be financial reasons behind it. I certainly don't think it's plumbing issues, whatever it really is, though.

ETA:

You sure talk in a group sense, referring to ”them” and ”we" when addressing statements in comments.

As far as I'm aware the only time I said we was because I was referring to your post where you threw the two of us together for whatever reason.

originally posted by: Crowdpsychology
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I would be interested to know if there are other stores closer to these locations than the ones closed, and if there are, and these are linked to the exercises, then what is the specific significance of these particular stores if there are others closer?

Most certainly, but feel free to do the research on that, and then present your findings. Like I have stated before, I'm not saying that it's a fact that these 5 closed stores have a connection to the Jade Helm 15 exercise, but I do believe that there is a chance (and there is a big difference between those two) based on the available information I have gathered. But if we are going to brainstorm inline with your question, I would suggest the following;

1) The stores have been chosen based on the communities that exists within their proximity and their demography, economy, crime-rate, unemployment-rate, etc.
2) The stores have a key-function in connection to Walmart's 9 "Disaster Distribution Centers”
3) The stores need further work on their infrastructure to better compliment their role in crisis/disaster/emergency management.
4) The stores have been chosen in connection to certain military bases.
5) A mix of the above.

Brandon Florida - Supercenter
Pico Rivera, California - Supercenter
Tulsa, Oklahoma - Supercenter
Midland, Texas - Supercenter
Livingston, Texas - Supercenter

One thing is sure, some of the Walmart’s are not near nor in the immediate vicinity of the planned deployments, but many of them are like I have showed, in the proximity of strategic military bases. I know that Walmart have 9 disaster centers around strategic places in the US, but even after doing some heavy searching I wasn’t able to find these locations. If someone know where they are situated, please post their locations.

These "disaster distribution centers” are stocked with relief supplies which are meant to be used in the event of a disaster. Each of these centers is more than 1 million square feet in size and they are stocked with water, batteries, lanterns, lamp oil, and ready-to-eat-food.

ercwts.files.wordpress.com...

www.scl.gatech.edu... (2010)

www.crcog.org... (2009)

I have been able to find any additional "Emergency Management in the Private Sector” pdf’s/manuals from Walmart. It’s also interesting to note that the SAR tool I mentioned in a previous post was addressed in a DHS document from 2011, in regard to "Developing the Commercial Facilities” Page 19, under ”Key Initiatives” www.dhs.gov... And the 2009 document from Walmart says their future tools will contain a ”central portal for all disaster-related information and intelligence” But their 2010 document didn't even address what kind of tools they were using and the potential upgrade of the system.

Wal-Mart’s efforts on behalf of hurricane relief also have to be viewed in light of what the company had previously received in benefits from the region. The giant distribution centers in Louisiana and Mississippi that were mobilized to provide aid were—like virtually every one of the company’s warehouses—built with government subsidies. The 20-year-old facility in Brookhaven, Mississippi received more than $1.5 million in infrastructure assistance and millions more (the exact amount is unknown) in tax breaks. The newer facilities in Louisiana got much more. The distribution center in Opelousas, which opened in 1999, received an estimated $33 million in tax breaks and infrastructure help. The one in the town of Robert, opened in 2001, enjoyed subsidies of more than $21 million. In other words, each of these two Louisiana distribution centers received more or less the same amount in government assistance as Wal-Mart has spent on hurricane relief. The company is still far ahead of the game—even without considering the rest of the more than $1 billion it has received in development subsidies across the United States.

www.corp-research.org...

www.goodjobsfirst.org...

The 5 closed Walmart Supercenters have not gotten any subsidies as far as I can see..

Texas: www.walmartsubsidywatch.org...
Oklahoma: www.walmartsubsidywatch.org...
California: www.walmartsubsidywatch.org...
Florida: www.walmartsubsidywatch.org...

Maybe these centers are being prepped and customized in some way in connections to their public-private partnership. Maybe they are about to receive some kind of "state site preparation grant", infrastructure assistance, etc. - in connection to their preparedness planning and key function during crisis/disaster/emergency management.

This info is not hidden. The information is available to anyone that cares to look for it.

Distribution Centers and Command Centers are never placed in the heart of a conflict zone. The ability to control and protect the travel routes are most important, along with the ease of ability to breakdown and abandon a site; even to safely destroy it if necessary, you don't want to leave any spoils for the enemy.

Please don't allow ourselves to be blindsided. Walmart is not alone. Every company that receives government subsidies or reimbursements, have a commitment to support the government's plan; whether Federal, State or Local. Most companies with over a certain number of employees are required to participate in a Crisis, Disaster, Emergency Plan.

If you are a new hire you may have already been put through your paces regarding what your company expects of you. If you have been on your job for a while, you may want to take a look at your company's disaster plan. You may be surprised.

I have not made up my mind if JH 15 is good or bad. I know I don't like their tactics. I don't like their lack of forthrightness. I don't like them treating our communities like battle zones and American citizens like the enemy. If they don't trust us. Why should we trust them?

I am sorry, if I am wrong on this, but I believe when you see and smell smoke, you better look for the fire, before it becomes to big to contain.

originally posted by: Crowdpsychology
I seriously don't understand why both You, DelMarvel and tanka418 are denying that their could be a connection between the 5 closed stores and Jade Helm 15, while systematically embracing everything else except that notion..

What exactly are you afraid of?

That is where you made one of your mistakes...I never said there was no connection; I said you have not established any association...worlds of difference there...

And this "everything else" you mention...

Have you ever heard of the science of Mathematics, and it's "sub" probability? That is what I used in my first analysis...And, it is just simply more probable that Walmart is involved in something other than Jade Helm.

In this case we have an alternative of Walmart attempting to bust the formation of a Union; something that is far more important to the future of Walmart than cooperating with some barely understood government exercise. You even pointed out a prime bit of evidence that supports this position...only one store was openly involved in activism...the Calif. store. It would be prudent, from a logic standpoint, that Walmart simply closed 4 others to begin to implement some "guilt obfuscation" in this case...you will probably have problems with that concept.

You are so bent on YOUR interpretation of non associated data that you can not see the forest for the trees, and thus your idea is failing. When there is no association...yelling and attempting to dominate the discussion via your "bully" tactics...only serves to alienate you.

One could almost ask; "what are you afraid of?" Why do you have so much invested in your interpretation that you fail to see sense and logic of other's arguments? Especially when the alternative argument is by far, more logical, more reasonable.

Your hypothesis has no "up side" for Walmart...only 6 months of no income from 5 stores, and nothing more to gain. While the alternative has the potential to save Walmart at least $10's of millions.

One other little item...while these stores are "down" Walmart will still have to pay any utility bills associated, and there will be utility bills. They will also have to pay for additional security, to protect their multi million dollar investment...so in the end; your notion only costs Walmart 10's of millions of dollars, with nothing in return. If the union is busted; Walmart has the potential to save much more than the cost of the shut down.

And as with almost everything else; follow the money.

originally posted by: Crowdpsychology
I have presented them to both you and your tag-teaming buddies

Basically another "shill" accusation. I have no idea who anyone else is on this thread other than perhaps seeing their screen names on ATS on other occasions. Once again, isn't the more logical explanation simply that there is more than one person who disagrees with your theories?

originally posted by: Crowdpsychology
And btw, what's wrong with presenting distances between the 5 stores and the closest military base?
Tulsa Air National Guard Base - Walmart, Tulsa, Oklahoma - 11 min
MacDill Air Force Base - Walmart, Brandon, Florida - 26 min
Ellington Field Joint Reserve Base - Walmart, Livingston, Texas - 1h, 28 min
US Marine base Camp Pendleton - Walmart, Pico Rivera, California - 1 h, 51min
Fort Bliss, El Paso - Walmart, North Midland, Texas - 4h, 12 min

I've already posted figures on how many Walmarts are closer to Camp Pendleton than the Pico Rivera store. There are 11 Walmarts in El Paso that would be a short drive from Fort Bliss rather than one three hundred miles away.

I just did another one: there are at least 14 Walmarts in the Tampa Bay area closer to MacDill Air Force base than the one in Brandon. There are at least a half dozen in St. Petersburg that would be a closer drive.

You have demonstrated no connection between these closed stores and their proximity to military bases. You might as well say it's significant that Walmart employees and military officers both breath oxygen.

originally posted by: Crowdpsychology
What exactly are you afraid of?

What I hear you saying: You are implying I am in psychological denial and am afraid to acknowledge the frightening reality that your enlightened mind can perceive.

Typical accusation at this point of a thread on a conspiracy website.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Vaedur
To explain the police presence, just know in Schenectady New York (Rotterdam) the police are ordered to be at walmart by the town during black Friday. With a odd situation and prescription drugs still being sold, and a big store full of good being shutdown, this could be town ordered.

The police are there during Black Friday because of massive crowds and the potential for fights to break out.

If these locations are just closed down, how it is any different than all of the non-24-hour WalMarts that close down at the end of every night? At the most, those locations have a hired security guard that patrols the parking lot.

I've never seen a non-24-hour store with multiple police cars present every night just to guard the store full of goods.

Believe me, I thought of your explanation first but it has no historical precedent and it's certainly not the normal M.O.

Great points, I can't argue with them.

a reply to: Crowdpsychology

Thanks for the rather detailed reply, your additional information was very much appreciated!
Absolutely spot on.

One thing is sure, If we don’t want to end up in the worst totalitarian society that the world has ever seen, people need to wake up and get involved. The notion of researching matters and doubtfulness connected to the finds is all you need in the beginning, the rest will solve itself after the first cornerstone falls into place.

That's why we are here, throwing out dots.

Final note. It’s interesting that the western world have shifted their concerning color from RED to BLUE in the last couple of years. Guess the cold war is finally over and that they can’t blame the red side for all the terrorist attacks anymore. But they sure as hell made the best out of it during the 70-90s when contracting rightwing extremists to conduct terrorists attacks during Operation Gladio and then blaming them on lefties.

True, but consider the start of "russian aggressions" in Ukraine last year before you call this ressurected Cold War finally over. Information warfare all over the place, pretty funny to witness the mass-media spitting out lie after lie to get the massage straight on line with any spin our ministry of truth would like to see.

By and large, Britain does not have a free press. Our media is not run by the government, and nor does it engage in widespread censorship. Instead, the media is run by a tiny group of politically motivated moguls, themselves in league with other private interests through advertising or personal networks. Journalists from non-privileged backgrounds are filtered out through unpaid internships and expensive post-graduate qualifications, ensuring the media is a closed shop for the well-to-do.

www.theguardian.com...

Anyway... there is enough information at hand to keep up with a rather suspicious state of mind.
What brings me to the new Corbett-Report on Walmart-closings, Jade-Helm and NY-FED-issues.

And finally, just in case anybody of you has missed this one...

Employees accused Walmart of closing stores with a history of union activism – but the Internet conspiracy theorists suspect the government may use tunnels between the shuttered stores to transport troops.

www.rawstory.com...

That's how you become a tinfoilhat-wearing suspect by simply suspecting stuff nobody want's to hear. Well... I coulnd't care less, as long as any good conspiracy on this site is way more fun to read than this boring mess they call a raw story. I would even consider that masterpiece to be a good example for the more devious attempts, to reduce the scope of this Walmart-conspiracy into the size of some tiny and unrelated talking-points.
As many already mentioned before - there could be one reason behind this or many at once. And when my government considers it's own citizens enemies of the state simply because they love their constitution, I would even think about underground-facilities and tunnels for troop-movement. It's called logics when applied correctly, isn't it?

a reply to: MysterX

The capitol and mansion ate one block apart, I would bet there is a big underground connection.

We know the governor has a safe place to go during severe weather. The mansion has a basement. The Capitol complex has underground tunnels.

kfor.com...

a reply to: Pimpish

You're giving them way too much credit calling them theories. They're hypotheses, at best. Further, I've still seen zero evidence of anything. There's a bunch of unrelated stuff people are putting together and claiming they're related. That doesn't make them evidence, it makes it speculation.

Le sigh...it's so irritating when people nitpick. For one thing, it's a giant red flag that says "I have no more ammunition with which to make my point, so I'll start grabbing at anything I can use to disagree with." For another thing, it makes me feel like i have to nitpick right back, and I am way better at it than most people are:

the·o·ry
ˈTHēərē/Submit
noun
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
"Darwin's theory of evolution"
synonyms: hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presupposition; More
a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.
"a theory of education"
an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action.
"my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"

Definition of "Theory"

hy·poth·e·sis
hīˈpäTHəsəs/
noun
plural noun: hypotheses
a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
"professional astronomers attacked him for popularizing an unconfirmed hypothesis"
synonyms: theory, theorem, thesis, conjecture, supposition, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, assumption; More
PHILOSOPHY
a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth.

Definition of "Hypothesis"

Bottom line is, there are lots of possibilities out there and until the outcome of this is clear, it will all be theory/hypothesis/conjecture/speculation/educated guesses. They are all interchangeable terms.

a reply to: tigertatzen

Your source is terrible and you didn't respond to the rest of what I said, none of which was nitpicking.

www.diffen.com...

All of yalls fighting has really ruined this thread.

originally posted by: stellawayten
All of yalls fighting has really ruined this thread.

And almost every other thread on ATS.

originally posted by: and14263

originally posted by: stellawayten
All of yalls fighting has really ruined this thread.

And almost every other thread on ATS.

We need a forum for pure discussion. Number one rule, without leniency, is "Here we agree to disagree". The discussion will be for the sharing of ideas. The testing of ideas, the what ifs, without personal attacks, and the determination to make someone change their mind or admit they are wrong. Which is really more along the of intent of making some say that you are "right".

Every thread is becoming a huge competition. It really has ruined some good threads and is chasing many, especially the old timers, away.

All good things come to an end. New things take there place. And the old are put out to pasture. I think it is time for me to drag my deck chair out to the old oak tree, down by the pond.

If want to hear some old wives tales or just some musings from an old broad that has seen too much and yet not nearly enough, come on down. Just make sure you bring plenty of ice and your own drinks. Some days I may not be up to sharing.

a reply to: Pimpish

Your source is terrible and you didn't respond to the rest of what I said, none of which was nitpicking.

My source was the dictionary, dude. It's been a valid method for obtaining definitions of words in the English language for quite a long time now, about 150 years. And you're right. The rest was not nitpicking. It was redundancy.