Forced to get Flu Shot - How can I decline?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Actually there is documented evidence of individuals becoming ill or even dying as a result of receiving the vaccine.

Commn sense, PPE, hand washing can and does alieviate much of the transmisison issue.

I don't get the vaccine. It'd eventually kill me. Yet I will not change careers simply because a vaccine will kill me. I use common sense.

Of the millions of people who get the flu vaccine every year, only about 70 reported any illness great enough to warrant some settlement. And one death. Exactly one death in 2014 from Flu Vaccine. the vaccines are totally dangerous!

Come on, more people are killed every year by domestic dogs.

Did not you say this in your prior post?

"Nobody is saying if one healthcare worker doesn't get vaccinated he'll kill millions. That's, again, hyperbole. But he COULD kill someone. Even if it's just one person, it's one person too much."

So the vaccine death is OK? It is kind of contradictory of you to not get the shot but think that health care providers have to. The weak and immune compromised have to interact with the general public as well just doing day to day living.

I suffered through bouts of strep throat as a child and young adult. They are working on a vaccine for that and when it is released to the public one will be treated as a leper for not dutifully lining up for that as well. The media will jump on it throwing out all the numbers and outbreaks convincing us we will all die or kill someone if we don't get the vac.

originally posted by: fernalley

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Actually there is documented evidence of individuals becoming ill or even dying as a result of receiving the vaccine.

Commn sense, PPE, hand washing can and does alieviate much of the transmisison issue.

I don't get the vaccine. It'd eventually kill me. Yet I will not change careers simply because a vaccine will kill me. I use common sense.

Of the millions of people who get the flu vaccine every year, only about 70 reported any illness great enough to warrant some settlement. And one death. Exactly one death in 2014 from Flu Vaccine. the vaccines are totally dangerous!

Come on, more people are killed every year by domestic dogs.

Did not you say this in your prior post?

"Nobody is saying if one healthcare worker doesn't get vaccinated he'll kill millions. That's, again, hyperbole. But he COULD kill someone. Even if it's just one person, it's one person too much."

So the vaccine death is OK? It is kind of contradictory of you to not get the shot but think that health care providers have to. The weak and immune compromised have to interact with the general public as well just doing day to day living.

I suffered through bouts of strep throat as a child and young adult. They are working on a vaccine for that and when it is released to the public one will be treated as a leper for not dutifully lining up for that as well. The media will jump on it throwing out all the numbers and outbreaks convincing us we will all die or kill someone if we don't get the vac.

How many deaths are reported from illnesses caught while in the hospital? That's easy. In 2002 the CDC did a study that found 98,987 deaths were from Hospital caught illnesses. If even .01% of those are the flu, that's still about ten deaths .

You tell me if it's worth it.

a reply to: Prezbo369

But yeah you eat a lot of herbs and oils so you obviously know what you're talking about.....

I'm smelling a heaping pile of sarcasm.

So, because I choose not to be forcefully vaccinated I must not know how to be healthy?

Forgive me if I'm wrong about your tone, but why does anyone who can and chooses not to be forcefully vaccinated have to be demonized?

Remind me to open a bakery in Indiana that only caters to non-vaccinated crackpots.

My nor your opinion matters when it comes to an individual on what he wants injected into his body! No one that is a free person should be forced to take a vaccination or do anything to their body they do not wish to be done! If You are scared of getting the flu then I would recommend YOU take the flu shot but your opinion that everyone or all healthcare workers should be forced to be vaccinated is FORCING your opinion on someone else. Get your flu shot and if the flu shot is that good then you should not catch the flu from the unvaccinated people. Right? If your health is critical then I would suggest you wear a mask to keep away ALL germs.

originally posted by: eisegesis
a reply to: Prezbo369

But yeah you eat a lot of herbs and oils so you obviously know what you're talking about.....

I'm smelling a heaping pile of sarcasm.

So, because I choose not to be forcefully vaccinated I must not know how to be healthy?

Forgive me if I'm wrong about your tone, but why does anyone who can and chooses not to be forcefully vaccinated have to be demonized?

Remind me to open a bakery in Indiana that only caters to non-vaccinated crackpots.

If you're in healthcare, and your conditions of employment require you to be vaccinated, and you lie and/or circumvent the rule, you deserve to be fired.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Then why have they been forced only recently where I'm located and not the other 6 years I was in the business?

Maybe they are denying ignorance? I tend to think they're forcing it upon us.

originally posted by: eisegesis
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Then why have they been forced only recently where I'm located and not they other 6 years I was in the business?

Because regulations are subject to change? Only a few hundred years ago people weren't required to wash their hands before seeing patients.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Ironically, the more you use antimicrobial soaps and hand sanitizers your body forgets to make its own defenses.

Dare I say we've been "designed" to accept small doses of free radicals in order for our bodies to identify new threats and as a result create naturally occurring antibodies?

Why didn't I need a chickenpox vaccine? Oh that's right, I let my body do its own internal housekeeping while I played in the dirt and ate peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with the same hands.

a reply to: eisegesis

It fine if you don't want to wash your hands, or take vaccines. But if you're in healthcare there are regulations that need to be followed. If you don't follow those regulations I don't want you to see me, or my family. And frankly, you should be fired.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun
Hospitals are also filled with many other people who are not health workers who ma yor may not be vaccinated.Visitors are at risk of catching infections. They are the breeding ground of Suerbugs which I would be more scared of catching than the flu.

a reply to: fernalley

And eliminating one possible vector of transmission is a good first step at making sure patients don't get infected. Vaccinating staff is that step.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
If you had a problem with vaccines of any kind, you have no business working in the medical field, as vaccinations are (in the vast majority of cases) a REQUIREMENT to remain employed in the field.

So, if you have ANY issues with the laws/policies of a city, state, or federal government, you should not dissent or fight it?

Absolutely. Just don't spread disease to unknowing and vulnerable people while you dissent.

Seriously though...a really bad analogy.

A better analogy would be a gun rights advocate making his case by demanding to board an airplane with a loaded shotgun.

Sure, he might be trustworthy and not a wacko...that one flight might even get to it's destination with no issue.

But the more he flies on crowded airplanes with a loaded shotgun and the more people bumping around that crowded airplane with loaded shotguns...and people are going to start getting accidentally shot and bad things will happen.

Why not just demand people don't carry loaded shotguns onto planes...and if you MUST carry a loaded shotgun, then don't get on the plane.

People have a right to a whole lot of things...but once that individual right puts innocent lives at risk...a Hospital has the obligation to step in and tell it's workers to get vaccinated, wash hands etc. He can stay vaccination free...but the Hospital isn't obligated to continue to employ him or risk their patients health in favor of his personal belief.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: eisegesis

It fine if you don't want to wash your hands, or take vaccines. But if you're in healthcare there are regulations that need to be followed. If you don't follow those regulations I don't want you to see me, or my family. And frankly, you should be fired.

Fair enough. May your germ free family live long and prosper.

I was one of only a few who hadn't gotten sick in the past year. My record extends well beyond that. I hope you will treat me with the same respect we have always treated each other on the boards as we will have to agree to disagree.

And being fired is quite unfitting. The alternative to receiving the mandatory flu shot was wearing a mandatory face mask during flu season. Tell me that's not a joke...

Love live healthcare and it's infallible approach to keeping people safe!

It's the end of the flu season now.
If a medical worker has to get the flu shot at the end of the season, do they then have to get the new season's flu shot six months later?
Plus this last year's flu vaccine was a mismatch - they said as much on the news, not likely to help anyone.

This makes me glad to live in Canada - it's not mandatory here, except in a very few situations.

originally posted by: fernalley
a reply to: ScientificRailgun
Hospitals are also filled with many other people who are not health workers who ma yor may not be vaccinated.Visitors are at risk of catching infections. They are the breeding ground of Suerbugs which I would be more scared of catching than the flu.

That is basically saying..

Multiple things can kill you from being in a car so Im not going to wear a seatbelt.

All you can control is what is in front of you and in a setting like a hospital that includes vaccinations. No one forces you to get them . If you don't want one take a job some place else.

I work in the NHS and we're probably not far off having the vaccine culture forced upon us. At the moment my particular Trust has opted for the route of bribery to get their employees to have the jab......and it appears to be working!

Over 6000 of the 8000 employees have had the jab this year in return for an extra days holiday. (Before the 'incentive' of a days holiday the uptake was between 2000 and 3000.)

The jab costs approx. £23500 for those 6000 employees and a further £500000 in holiday pay.

The number of 'flu deaths' in the community, according to official figures, has remained static but the number of sick days for flu taken by the Trust employees has dropped considerably. However......the number of sick days taken by the employees has risen by 3% during flu 'season'. According to the data I have D&V is the new flu in winter. Lol. So.....just over half a million pounds of tax payers money and the net result is.......?

Draw your own conclusions from that, bearing in mind the poor, downtrodden overworked undervalued NHS worker gets paid at full rate whilst off sick.

I refuse the flu vaccine on the grounds of there being no clinical evidence to support it and studies have shown death rates in the study groups vary from remaining static to rising by up to 3%. The doctors/consultants I work with actually support me.

a reply to: snowspirit

It still saved 45 thousand cases of flu just in the usa alone.
that to me makes it worth it.

originally posted by: eisegesis

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: eisegesis

It fine if you don't want to wash your hands, or take vaccines. But if you're in healthcare there are regulations that need to be followed. If you don't follow those regulations I don't want you to see me, or my family. And frankly, you should be fired.

Fair enough. May your germ free family live long and prosper.

I was one of only a few who hadn't gotten sick in the past year. My record extends well beyond that. I hope you will treat me with the same respect we have always treated each other on the boards as we will have to agree to disagree.

And being fired is quite unfitting. The alternative to receiving the mandatory flu shot was wearing a mandatory face mask during flu season. Tell me that's not a joke...

Love live healthcare and it's infallible approach to keeping people safe!

Oh my family is far from germ free. I rarely get the shot, because I'm a giant wuss. I wash my hands after the bathroom and before cooking, and that's about it. Unless they get really grimy from digging around in dusty old equipment.

I rarely get sick myself, I'm actually getting over the first cold I've had in years. I don't look down on your personal decisions, I just don't think people in healthcare should be turning down a flu vaccine. Of course my reasons are personal, what with nearly losing my grandma to the flu in the hospital. I won't deny that at all. I was raised in rural New Mexico in a poor family, so "rub some dirt in it" was the common prescription for scraped knees, not band aids.

I don't look down on your because of your personal choices, I just feel that maybe those choices might eventually put someone at risk. I'm not a doctor, so I don't know for sure. But it seems like flu vaccines are kind of a common sense thing if you work in healthcare.

My beef is entirely with mixing anti-vax and healthcare workers.

originally posted by: eisegesis
So, because I choose not to be forcefully vaccinated I must not know how to be healthy?

I didn't say that, but yes.......

And as such I don't think you should be in a position as a 'healthcare professional'.

Forgive me if I'm wrong about your tone, but why does anyone who can and chooses not to be forcefully vaccinated have to be demonized?

Oh yeah sure you're the victims here, and not all the innocent people you have potentially endangered and continue to endanger......And definitely not those that might believe you actually are a healthcare professional and might be influenced by your lack of professionalism and also make in ill-informed choice...

Remind me to open a bakery in Indiana that only caters to non-vaccinated crackpots.

Is it bad that if you did do the above, it'd be the least surprising post I've read on ATS?

a reply to: eisegesis

What about hep b would you take that?.
I couldn't start work until I had the two jabs and they checked if it worked.
What if polio came back wpuld you tefuse that also? Smallpox also?.