Forced to get Flu Shot - How can I decline?

a reply to: mSparks43

Viruses are not zombies. They do not come back to life. Once they are inactivated, they stay that way.

You are aware that you have formaldehyde in your body just naturally, right?

a reply to: ketsuko

Why are you being so obtuse?

It's because it is not 100% effective at killing them in the first place.
deactivates 99.99% of them
still leaves billions of them live.

"stay dead" - because any of those live ones taking hold after vaccination will start replicating.

And as I already said/corrected myself.
Infection is the least of your worries
More likely to have serious side effects from the material they are deactivating it with.

Not really an issue if you are old.
Quite an issue if you are not old and taking them on a regular basis. Like, say, people who work in a hospital.

->You are aware that you have formaldehyde in your body just naturally, right?

Are you saying its OK to inject opium?
because you have that naturally in your body too.
Oh
and probably almost certainly live flu virus as well.

педерћини

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Cause they would come back into the pharmacy and get their meds.

And I personally would always ask them cause I was skeptical about the shots back in the day as well.

On top of that,I got the nasal for 6 years, every year and never once got sick from it.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: FurvusRexCaeli

not even a little bit true.
because "inactivation" is a long way from 100% effective (even if you were injecting them with bleach you would still be injecting literally billions of live virus).

Then you should see evidence of people developing hepatitis, Hib, influenza, and polio from inactivated vaccines. I don't mean anecdotes, I mean actual data--which shouldn't be hard to find, if inactivated vaccines work the way you think they do.

Polio should be easy--the WHO publishes stats on wild and circulating vaccine-derived polio cases. If virus inactivation is as ineffective as you think it is, there should be numerous cases of cVDPV in IPV countries. There aren't. It's only found in the third world, where OPV is still used. There are no cases in which IPV "reactivated" and caused the disease.

Hepatitis A and B should be easy, too. They are reportable diseases in the US. If there were live Hep viruses in the Hep vaccines, there would've been a huge outbreak of Hep A and Hep B by now, since exposure would have gone from uncommon to nearly universal. That didn't happen, because it's a dead virus and nothing is bringing it back.

Same with Hib. The incidence of Hib was reduced 99% by the vaccine. Infants who get the vaccine and have an immune response don't get Hib. The virus is dead, and it does not come back to life.

Due to the hit-and-miss quality of the flu vaccine, the time it takes to become effective, and self-diagnosis, a lot of people imagine the flu vaccine can cause influenza. But there's simply no mechanism for it, which is patently obvious when you look at the more obvious diseases for which inactivated virus vaccines exist. When people start getting polio and hepatitis from vaccines, then maybe I'll believe you can get the flu from a flu shot.

a reply to: FurvusRexCaeli

->vaccine-derived polio cases

Nuff said eh?

Talk to the person in charge and ask about exemptions.

Usually there are some. Religious belief (JW's don't approve of needles), allergies, other types. Get your MD's approval/permission to decline it.

Often if you don't get it you just are not scheduled to work around immunocompromised patients.

No reason to despair at this point.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The facts are the shot is a dead virus, you can't get sick from a dead virus.
Please feel free to show me other wise.
Anecdotal is not fact.
But since you want to treat it as such, my personal experience with the shot completely refutes yours. Worked in a pharmacy, seen countless people receive the shots and be fine and back in the pharmacy with no flu.
Coupled with receiving the nasal, which is an actually live and never getting sick from it.
So if I am to take your stories as fact, why would you refuse to take mine as the same?
Would you respond bias view? Please explain how yours is not.

When you agree to something when you take a job, it is hard to turn around and then say you are getting forced to do it.

Some types are made with live viruses, such as the nasal spray variety. Also, it's been shown that "dead" viruses aren't always as dead as people thought. For example -

There is a need to ask the question, what was a live and what was a dead vaccine? In attenuating terms, such categorization between dead and living vaccines, however, remained vague and often indistinguishable. While undertaking these different methods of producing vaccines and experimenting with them, Malone identified an interesting phenomenon: the line between the live and the dead was not always clear. While Semple claimed that the virus in 8 percent suspension of brain was dead after incubation at 37°C for twenty-four hours in the presence of 1 percent carbolic acid, "but we have shown that it is not the case, for if sufficient number of rabbits be subdurally inoculated with 0.2 c.c. of such suspensions approximately 1 in every 125 will contract rabies and presumably a greater number would have been infected had we been able to inoculate larger quantities."116 So by this definition, even the Semple vaccine contained live viruses that could infect patients. Malone confirmed that the good results with 5 percent carbolized was due to higher nerve cell content, but even in this vaccine "the possibility of the presence of living virus in the 8 percent suspension from which the vaccines were prepared cannot be entirely excluded." Even earlier, in 1926, Cunningham found that the Kasauli fixed virus died if immersed in ether for thirty-six hours.117 But in 1927, when he studied the action of ether on Indian "street virus" (that collected from infected dog brains sent recently), the virus remained alive in central portion of the brain immersed up to seventy-two hours.118 Finally in 1928 he discovered that living virus could be found in infected brains after immersion in ether up to eighty-four hours, but not in cords exposed to ether for ninety-six hours.119

source

If one virus can be supposed dead, and then found not to be in a vaccine, then so can another. This would easily explain why some people do, in fact, get sick with the flu from a vaccination. Since viruses shed, it's possible to infect family members also, if the virus isn't really all dead.


There is also a great deal of information that indicates they aren't needed, and can cause problems. Check this information from a doctor. Why You Should Not Get the Flu Shot So, not only might you end up with some not-so-dead virus, you could have other complications as well.

A small percentage of not-really-dead virus can and does explain the cases of people getting sick from the vaccines. You could thus experience good results, while others experienced bad ones.

All in all, with the risk of live virus, the risk of complications from additives, and the fact that it's not proven that the vaccines actually decrease incidences of flu (from the second link above) -

The Archives of Pediatric & Adolescent Medicine has reported that giving young children flu shots appeared to have no impact on flu-related doctor visits or hospitalizations during two recent flu seasons. A large-scale, systematic review of 51 studies published in the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews found that the flu vaccine was no more effective for children than a placebo. And research published in the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine similarly reports that there has been no decrease in deaths from influenza and pneumonia, despite the fact that vaccination coverage among the elderly has increased from 15 percent in 1980 to 65 percent today.

- I choose to not get a flu vaccine. From my experience, and that of the other members of my not-small household, we do not get the flu with no one here getting the vaccine. Literally, no one has caught the flu in the years since the vaccines stopped. Before, it was fairly common. You can make whatever decision you wish, and that's what we should all be allowed to do, job title notwithstanding. The issue isn't as straightforward as you want to believe.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes
Very well said! Pros and cons of vaccinations aside, I think the real issue is that of personal liberty to refuse an invasive procedure versus mandatory vaccination. If the government (or your employer) can mandate that you be forcibly penetrated with virus material (dead or alive) then you are essentially the property/slave of that government or employer. To argue that one can quit a job that insists on such a mandate places the individual under duress since that type of employment can not be obtained anywhere without complying with the mandate. More oppressive is the implied consent that you are not your own but merely a cog in a corporate wheel; an asset or a liability to their bottom line.

If the government truly cared about public health and was determined to remove personal liberties to achieve it, they could mandate that everyone wear an N-95 mask in public but that non-invasive solution interferes with facial recognition programs and doesn't generate income from vaccine sales.

F*** I am disheartened. I wrote an essay thanking you guys for your responses listing the multitude of EVERYTHING i've gone thru and the millions of shots and BS I"ve gone thru this week. Then I pressed cntrl A, then I press cntrl V on accident instead of C. There goes 2 hours worth of typing to try and inform you guys. I feel defeated. This sucks. I'll list the over a dozen shots I've recieved later along with everything else that must be completed on some BS site called certifiedprofile.com . I'm too pissed and defeated to tell you about by week after this. At least I know I don't have HIV which was an accidental test and is always a plus, they probably though I was a male prostitute after going through all this bull#.

a reply to: Swing80s

Tell her you already had the flu this season no need to get the shot.

In a position where you could have a high possibility of coming in contact with infected patients it makes sense to take whatever precautions are necessary to prevent becoming a carrier yourself if only to protect your own family. To me, the flu shot is a minor inconvenience I submit to annually and it's worked for me. My employer encourages (and funds) the shot but it isn't mandatory and statistically it's been a huge success in cutting lost time due to influenza.

I almost died with severe flu in 2000 and ever since I've been taking the precaution of being immunised every year with apparent success as I have not had anything more than a cold or a bit of a temperature for a day or two in that time. Getting laid out for a month or so with a high fever, double pneumonia etc and barely able to move can change your perspective on being immunised.

Just my take on it of course but I'd have no hesitation in getting the required shot.

www.vaccinationcouncil.org...

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

many thanks. exactly the kind of reply I would of liked to write if I wasn't so lazy too.

I'll also add that even live non attenuated virus is shades of grey. (smallpox vaccine being the best example)

also depends on how virulent the virus strain is.
polio and Hep vaccines aren't comparable because they are now "deactivating " strains that impart immunity but aren't that virulent even if some survive the deactivation.

this doesn't seem to be true for the flu vaccine in general. and is kind of acceptable on aggregate because the risk of vaccine derived cases isn't accompanied with the same risk of vaccine derived cases resulting in death and serious complications as virus's such as polio and the hep series.

originally posted by: Swing80s
F*** I am disheartened. I wrote an essay thanking you guys for your responses listing the multitude of EVERYTHING i've gone thru and the millions of shots and BS I"ve gone thru this week. Then I pressed cntrl A, then I press cntrl V on accident instead of C. There goes 2 hours worth of typing to try and inform you guys. I feel defeated. This sucks. I'll list the over a dozen shots I've recieved later along with everything else that must be completed on some BS site called certifiedprofile.com . I'm too pissed and defeated to tell you about by week after this. At least I know I don't have HIV which was an accidental test and is always a plus, they probably though I was a male prostitute after going through all this bull#.

Sorry this happened. Often you can press ctl-z and get back what had been there.

Good luck!

a reply to: whitewave

that "real issue" lays at the heart of the fairly hefty campaign to convince people there are no reasons to not get the vaccine. no side effects. no risks.

mixed with a successful campaign to not hold pharma responsible when they do screw up and people die.

on the one hand I fully support it. it's right that other people get vaccinated...

on the other. if we all thought like that. no one would get vaccinated.

what to do but keep people stupid?

originally posted by: whitewave
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes
Very well said! Pros and cons of vaccinations aside, I think the real issue is that of personal liberty to refuse an invasive procedure versus mandatory vaccination. If the government (or your employer) can mandate that you be forcibly penetrated with virus material (dead or alive) then you are essentially the property/slave of that government or employer. To argue that one can quit a job that insists on such a mandate places the individual under duress since that type of employment can not be obtained anywhere without complying with the mandate. More oppressive is the implied consent that you are not your own but merely a cog in a corporate wheel; an asset or a liability to their bottom line.

If the government truly cared about public health and was determined to remove personal liberties to achieve it, they could mandate that everyone wear an N-95 mask in public but that non-invasive solution interferes with facial recognition programs and doesn't generate income from vaccine sales.

Exactly! All personal feelings aside on the vaccinations themselves, this should be a completely personal choice. Schools should not be allowed to require shot records, either. If parents choose to vaccinate, then they are showing trust in the vaccines, and those that do not should thus present no threat. Of course, I don't believe the public school system should be government-controlled, either. More control.

If the government really cared about public health, they would not approve medications that often have more serious side effects than the conditions they are supposed to treat!

Many of those that believe the vaccines are safe seem to believe that it's acceptable to force someone to get the vaccines. This shows a real lack of understanding of real freedom, in my opinion.

a reply to: mSparks43

You are welcome! I have done quite a lot of study on the issue of vaccines in general, because I wanted the facts. I used to think they were alright. Then my oldest had a horrible reaction to a standard combo vaccine, and was so sick, three adults were up with her all night, and she was screaming and crying. All from a "safe" vaccine.

The idea behind vaccines is a good one, but we MUST be sure they are truly safe. We must also each be allowed to decide for ourselves and our children, whether or not to accept any risks.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Cause they would come back into the pharmacy and get their meds.

And I personally would always ask them cause I was skeptical about the shots back in the day as well.

On top of that,I got the nasal for 6 years, every year and never once got sick from it.

Wait a sec. So that means that people who got a flu shot never got sick? Just because they didn't get sick immediately? I didn't necessarily think the flu shot causes the flu. I just don't think it helps. I know too many people who get these shots every year and always get the flu.

I wouldn't trust any vaccine personally. Someone close to me got Pneumonia year after year until they finally listened to me and stopped getting their yearly flu shot. Now they're so much healthier than they've been in the past several from taking the injections.