Geologist: ''Jesus was married with a child and tomb found''

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

If i remember correctly there are papers that debunk the mithraism claim. I think i even posted a link to it before but i didnt bookmark it or keep it.

a reply to: uncommitted

Perpetuating the Christianity agenda, continuation of ancient pagan rituals and control of the masses perhaps.

a reply to: yuppa

Mithraism / Nazarene makes more sense historically, there wasn't any mention of ''Christianity'' at the time of its supposed 'inception'.

In spite of Mithraism being regarded as a late ascetical all male cult, with a priesthood consisting of celibate man and militants only, a much earlier feminal Mithra had been identified with the Persian goddess Anahita. According to the Greek historian Herodotus, the ancient Persians worshipped a sky-goddess Mitra, the same as Mylitta, Assyria's Great Mother, and Alitta, known to the Arabians. The Lydians then went about combining Mithra with his archaic Mother/spouse Anahita as an androgynous Mithra-Anahita, as distinguished with Sabazius-Anaitis of the Anatolian mystery cults.

The correlation of the Bull and the Goddess, including the Bull's blood being delivered to the Moon for fructification can also be explained through the coexistence of its procreant objective. When the Bull's head is viewed from a forefront perceptive its cranium and horns exhibit a striking match of the uterine organs of the human female.

Afterwards in the 2nd century Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr and Tertullian made various effects on trying to enforce that Mithraism had copied itself from Christianity. Tertullian wrote of the Devil's "diabolical mimicry" in creating the Mysteries of Mithras:
"The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptizes his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be Divine."
It was a known fact that Mithraism had included these rituals a long time before the time of Jesus Christ. In 1989, Mithraic scholar David Ulansey wrote the book "The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries", in which he exhibited its local Anatolian descent in Tarsus, Turkey, the home of the apostle Paul, and dating well back to the representation of the astronomical situation from the Age of Taurus the Cow/Bull (4500-2400 BCE).

Many Scholars now agree that Paul, the founder of Christianity, likewise subsisted as the Pythagorean philosopher "Apollonius of Tyana" (after the Sun god Apollo) who was the former Solar Messiah to the figure of Jesus Christ.

Many Roman writers reference Apollonius as "Pol" and various comparisons have been made between them, such as being located at Tarsus, Ephesus and Rome at exactly the same time of each other. Pol also had a companion called Demas, as Paul does with Damis.
"For when one says, 'I belong to Paul,' and another, 'I belong to Apollos,' are you not merely human? What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you came to believe, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth."
- I Corinthians 3:4-6

Ancient Temples and Catacombs
The Catacombs in Rome offer some of the most vital forms of evidence between paganism and Christianity. The Catacombs eventually ceased after Christians came into jurisdiction and were later only rediscovered in 1578, where they were first thought to be ruins of ancient cities.

The catacombs extended six miles deep underground, and are also considered the single most precious collection of early Pagan and Christian art in the entire world. Believe it or not, Rome has some 600 miles of catacombs altogether, and today can even be found pictures of the baby Horus being held by the Virgin Isis-Meri (Mary) in what scholars have claimed is the original "Madonna and Child".

Hundreds of temples, sculptures, fragments and inscriptions dedicated to Mithras have likewise been found. The Mithraic cave temple on Vatican Hill that was seized and destroyed by literalist Christians in 376 CE, also lies directly underneath the Vatican. Christian bishops of Rome additionally preempted the Mithraic high priest's title off Pater Patrum ("father" Egyptian for "Ptah") who was known as the "Papa." (the Pope) The first Pope of the Catholic Church was Simon (a Gnostic), who was then later ironically enough renamed Peter (or Saint Peter) by the Roman Church.

The Mithraeum in Rome,
located directly under the Church of San Clemente.

In Britain, Mithra shrines have been uncovered under St. Pauls cathedral. Also at Segentium on the Welsh border, and others on Hadrian wall on the Scottish border, and anywhere near old Roman garrison towns. In fact, every Roman garrison town had its Mithra temple and shrine.

Christians adopted Easter
"Roman sources that mention Jesus are all dependent on Christian reports. Jesus' trial did not make headlines in Rome, and the archives there had no record of it. If archives were kept in Jerusalem, they were destroyed when revolt broke out in 66 CE or during the subsequent war. That war also devastated Galilee. Whatever records there may have been did not survive. When he was executed, Jesus was no more important to the outside world than the two brigands or insurgents executed along with him, whose name we also do not know."
- The Historical Figure of Jesus. by E.P. Sanders
The word "Easter" stems from the Anglo-Saxon goddess of fertility "Eastra", or Oestre. In Latin, Ishtar or Astarte. In the Old Testament, Astarte the Phoenician goddess of fertility was called "Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians" and Ashtaroth, for which a great Spring festival was held in her honor.

According to the English theologian and historian Bede in the 8th century, early Germanic Christians acquired her name and ceremonies based on the resurrection of the Sun's ascendance in the "East" at the Vernal Equinox, when day and night were in equal length. The Anglo-Saxons additionally called "April" Oster Monat (Moon), or the conceptive phase of advancing into a new generative season.

After much debate about Easter, the later official liturgical Christian Easter also fell precisely on the same Sunday (Sun's Day) after the first full Moon of the equinox ("equal night") following March 21st, the same period as various ancient resurrecting fertility gods. March 21st to April 19th on the Zodiac being Aries the Ram, or Alpha Arietis being the brightest star in the constellation Aries. It is known as Hamal, an Arabic name meaning "Sheep".

In Egypt, this was known as the popular cult of Aries, or the Sun god Amon "RA"/"RAM", the Lamb of god. Even still as an expression of faith today, Christians say "Amen", which is symbolized by the Ram (Lamb) and is a very important Easter symbol relating not only that to the Sun's death and rebirth, but also to the Lamb sacrificed during the Sun's Passover on the Zodiac.

(above) Mithra springing to birth in the womb, from an egg .
(also note the 12 zodiac signs, the 12 disciples of the Sun)

Correspondingly, the fertility goddess Astarte/Oestre's symbols are those representing rebirth (eggs) and her earthly Easter symbol is that of the prolific March hare, which would lay eggs for good children to eat for Easter celebrations. This custom of exchanging eggs began when the ancients dyed them in Spring colors and gave them to their friends as gifts. They believed that the world egg was actually laid by the Moon goddess and was split open by the heat of a Sun god, hatching the world.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Thanks, I will take a look. Here is a post I mad in the pictish thread, if I have any more comments on this subject I will enter it in one of your other threads to keep this one on topic.

Suppose the sun king is a persona or character like in a play... and different people assumed the role of that character over time, perhaps through a voting system or competition etc... While the people playing the character would come and go through rebirth/regeneration rituals the king/sungod character could survive for centuries, be reborn and resurrected. The character would be near immortal as long as its followers kept bringing him back to life!

The kings(characters) who turned out bad were sacrificed, discontinued. Ie, Not reborn/regenerated through rituals/belief...

The Hebrew words הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר (Helel ben Shaḥar, "day-star, son of the morning") in Isaiah 14:12 are part of a prophetic vision against an oppressive king of Babylon. Jewish exegesis of Isaiah 14:12–15 took a humanistic approach by identifying the king of Babylon as Nebuchadnezzar II. Verse 20 says that this king of Babylon will not be "joined with them [all the kings of the nations] in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, thou hast slain thy people; the seed of evil-doers shall not be named for ever", but rather be cast out of the grave...

If they turned out good and served the people as expected ...

The Latin word lucifer is also used of Christ in the Easter Proclamation prayer to God regarding the paschal candle: Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Filius tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum (May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death's domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever).

Just wondering how the geologist knows that the body was Jesus? I know the inscription on James' box is disputed (with evidence on both sides of the dispute). Now Jesus has been found in the tomb? No DNA to play with (I assume), so how would he point to a particular thing and call it Jesus' remains?

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I guess is now safe to expose the biggest mystery of all and the greatest secret held by the early church, Jesus was nothing but a human man with all the desires, passions and cultural characteristics of any man of his time.

Why is so hard for people to understand this? because they want an idol a heavenly creature with superpower capabilities that look like a human behave like a human but was never to have human feelings when it came to the desires of the flesh.

Guess what people, reality is going to bite many in their rear arses, Jesus the man and the most kept secret the "holy grail" was his wife and offspring, human after all

a reply to: Krazysh0t
That's a real good question. We cannot for sure determine if he was married.
Another thing about the Talpiot discovery:

A fourth ossuary was inscribed with the name "Matthew" and a fifth -- the only one in Greek -- with the name "Mariamene," a Greek version of "Mary" associated in all of Greek literature with one woman only -- Mary the Magdalene. Even more disturbing for Pauline Christians, a sixth inscribed ossuary -- apparently of a child -- had the name "Judah, son of Jesus" carved on it.

I did the bolding for highlighting purposes.

About Jesus existence? If there is a family with all those names in the correct correlation, we may assume he existed.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: uncommitted

Perpetuating the Christianity agenda, continuation of ancient pagan rituals and control of the masses perhaps.

But if it claims the resurrection didn't happen, then how does it perpetuate the 'agenda? What is the agenda by the way, to treat your neighbour as you would want to be treated is now a bad thing?

a reply to: Aleister

As is typical for religions, it is subjective belief and speculation.

a reply to: uncommitted

I suggested a possible agenda. It could be anything, from implying there wasn't a resurrection, to there was then he married and died or it could be an anti Christian agenda, it could also not be an agenda.

a reply to: Abednego

Why is that? If I find a grave marked "Paul" and the inscription said "Owned an ox" does that entitle me to say that Paul Bunyun was real?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If Jesus never existed, what impact would that have on Christianity?

Somehow I feel it would have zero impact. They'd just deny whatever evidence proved Jesus didn't exist and go on believing.

Just like any belief in any subject. This weeks New Scientist has an excellent article all about beliefs and the source of them. Very interesting read and sooooooo relevant to about 90% of all posts on ATS !!!!!

I think the biggest reaction by the believers was if Jesus existed and was married to a woman called Mary. Oh my that's Catholic church knackered. Dan Brown can write yet another book and upset the church even more.

a reply to: Abednego

There is not telling either way as even if all the DNA was found and matched, the carbon dating accurate, the text proven etc, it could have been another family or a completely ordinary family on which Christianity is based, it isn't proof in any way of a biblical Jesus or confirmation of the NT.

Much as I would like all religions to be pared down to their basic truths and facts, it is unlikely that archaeology or any other current branch of science is able to provide all those answers.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Seriously, if a Science Fiction author can invent a religion in this day and age then get enough members and power to become recognized as an actual religion, then any beliefs are possible.

They Dont know anything...

a reply to: Krazysh0t
I know that sounds weird. But is not that loosely.
When I said in the correct correlation I meant that the boxes showed all the names in the place they where supposed to be:
Yosef father of Jesus, Mary mother of Jesus, James son of Yosef brother of Jesus and so on...

That kind of narrow the probabilities.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth


Oh, this is good for a laugh. Only the rich had these family tombs.

So Jesus and his family were RICH and had a family tomb? Or the rich guy who allowed Jesus to be buried in his tomb has now donated it to a whole family?

Bullsnip.


The Pharisees and the Romans were then completely oblivious to this information in their time and did not use it against the newly formed Christian foundation which they despised?

a reply to: theabsolutetruth
You are absolutely right.
I just like to add to the debate. Sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right. But If we don't incite the conversation, there will be nothing to learn.

I have a problem with the Jesus that was crucified during a Passover pilgrimage to Jerusalem in around 33 AD decided to locate his new residence in the city (Jerusalem) which had a Jewish majority population who demanded 'Crucify him' and let the militant(Roman killer)-Zionist-rebel ("Barbarosa") free instead

if Jesus married, it was not in accordance with the established priesthood Rabbi's.
..Jesus himself was a maverick 'Teacher/Rabbi' but not ordained or trained under the recognized Priesthood of his time, so another radical, Cult Rabbi equivalent must have secretly wed Jesus & Mary... the son, Judah would have had a bris on the day reckoned.... but the Jesus family would likely have lived in seclusion just about like Osama bin Laden did there in Pakistan for years

just too many things are needing special treatment for this tomb to be the famous Jesus & family final resting place

a reply to: Abednego

Wait. If Yosef is written for Joseph? Then why isn't Yeshua written for Jesus? It's common knowledge that Jesus was actually named Joshua.