Are you SURE you really really want to get into it with Russia?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: luthier

First off they don't need to get their troops here. They have the largest icbm stock in the world as well as some of the most sophisticated war heads and boosters (as we buy all our solid state boosters from them too). They also have the farthest reaching warheads.

Same logical fallacy as OP. You talk about Russia winning a conventional war with Germany due to superior numbers, so they can maybe do the same to the US and win a conventional war ... with nuclear weapons.

Logical fallacy.

Second they don't need to come here because they wouldn't start the war. Its the US and NATO in their neck of the woods. And they have the home field advantage there.

If they never attack the US that gives the US all the time in the world to pick their defenses apart. Defense is important, but if your offensive capabilities are nil, you will lose, every time.

The general Russian public is also much more used to hardship and can handle things like market crashes without complete civil unrest.

Which has nothing to do with the OP's military capabilities.

We have plenty of gear but unless we phased the entire country with some sort of new weapon we would only instigate the end of the world as thousands of nukes fly towards the us and allies.

Why are people still talking about nukes when the discussion is about conventional military capabilities. If the OP wants to make a post that the US and Russia can destroy the world with nuclear weapons they can make that post.

There is also no telling who or what has been smuggled into the us seeing as you can drive uhauls of drugs and people over the boarder and Mexico is as corrupt as they come.

And that somehow gives them stealth tanks or something?

Uh no. Spies and soldiers who can place bombs in strategic places like power plants.

Russians don't need to use nukes on their icbms either. They have lots of technology for war heads. Look I know we have great gear but no one wins that war. They have lots of intelligence themselves from all their spies. Seeing as you can walk right into Texas, NM, AZ, or California.

War is about strategy in combination with the tools at your disposal.

From Russia's perspective we are the meddlers

You know the Ukraine and Poland are different right.

The Ukraine has a huge Russian cultural background, has been the most corrupt dysfunctional state in Europe for decades, and are not a homogenous society.

Poland is a European country of Polish people, part of the EU, part of Nato and has had a stable government for decades. My wife is polish. Been over many times even in communism.

a reply to: Mister_Bit

That just says it all..... With this mentallity I've no doubt the USA wants war and will take us all with them straight to hell.

Really, because it was a friendly competition where nobody died...so how does that equate to the US wanting war?

In reality it would be easier to lose to a country in competition such as boxing than it would be to go to war and lose bodies. And I guarantee most Americans would agree, which shows me you don't know much about the average American person.

And if you are American then you don't know anything about the people around you, because I guarantee you wouldn't find many that advocate a war with anyone much less Russia.

a reply to: Mister_Bit

THAT is also a mistake.
AT OUR core American troops don't operate with hate or the wish to kill,only that winning MUST be accomplished at the the cost of our own LIVES if neccessary. TO that effort we are DEATH MACHINES, FEELINGS ARE GONE for a reason.We HATE harming women and children it kills part of your soul to kill any way. BUT after Vietnam AMERICAN FORCES learned ,the enemy USES our natures to sway our public and demoralize our troops. NOW if it has a gun or we have to do so we will kill anything or anyone to acomplish the mission and suicide later AFTER we come back. ALL of that ,everything we stand for as warriors is now spit on by progressives seeking to minimize the value of warfare instead of stopping wars BEFORE we go,
ANOTHER mistake and we won't TAKE any crap from them for it ,they HATE that.
ALL Eastern forces believe the US and their humanitarian natures are a weakness,COWARDICE, THEY WANT America to PAY for our passed sins and WE won't do that as long as we can hold our own WHERE ever we take the field.
OBAMA is trying to change that with his social movement, CLOWARD and Piven is being used against us all in order to "TAke us down a peg"
I statrted a thread about my war with P.C. stating as such.
YOUR military has STOPPED a great deal of OLIGARICHAL efforts to forment ignorant wars,THEY will always attempt to keep us divided and fighting.
ANYONE who knows history can see that S##T for what it is.

a reply to: luthier

You may be correct my info from reading what from locals say is mostly, THEY want to be their OWN country not some GLOBAL tool,and CERTAINLY not a RUSSIAN state again.
WE WON'T tollerate the return of the WARSAW pact.
ALL of this is being played that way.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

THAT wussy wasn't a SCOUT my friend.
(Glory hound CAV you know)

a reply to: luthier

Clinton destroyed HUMINT by restraining our intelligence gathering to electronic dependency NOW, Obama is running ALL of this like Johnson from the whitehouse he IS NOT litening to anyone but his own people,he HIGHKLY resembles an ISLAMIC sympathizer and has shown his callous distain for American lives in the field.
He is either HIGHLY ignorant of world affairs and HE himself is manipulated OR he is TRYING to subvert the country.
Russia still is using their intelligaence as they always have since the are using the old SOVIET UNION models again.
THEY are strapped for cash surrounded by NATO and they are scared. I say when you knock a man down, help him get up.
WE DIDN'T DO THAT.
If we as individuals don't figure this out and remove the creatures who operate the puppet strings we will continue to pay with BLOOD. I WILL fight SATAN himself to do so ,death is easy.
I'm just not intelligent enough to know more.

OUR I am paranoid and ALL of my CONSPIRACIE THEORIES are false.
THE choice is YOURS but I WILL NEVER lie to any of you to bolster what I say.I may not be right,I guess we'll see.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Mister_Bit

That just says it all..... With this mentallity I've no doubt the USA wants war and will take us all with them straight to hell.

Really, because it was a friendly competition where nobody died...so how does that equate to the US wanting war?

In reality it would be easier to lose to a country in competition such as boxing than it would be to go to war and lose bodies. And I guarantee most Americans would agree, which shows me you don't know much about the average American person.

And if you are American then you don't know anything about the people around you, because I guarantee you wouldn't find many that advocate a war with anyone much less Russia.

NO ONE here wants war!!!!! Ask any veteran here on ATS. If you think that, then you are deluded. My youngest son and I have both served in the US military. Both of us have PTSD and both of us have multiple awards of the purple heart.

There are a few thinks you don't understand! You have no bona fetis to speak of war or how the US conducts war. At best it's a bad guess. You have never seen combat so you are unaware of the requirements to do things necessary to survive. This is not exclusively an American experience...it is a soldier thing. In the army we have a saying, opinions are like an a**hole, everybody has one and they all stink. Go to your local military recruiter and enlist. In 3-4 years years you will have a much different view if you survive.

Avoiding the entire conventional vs. nuclear argument going on in the undertones of this thread...



Our military has been at war, or involved in some large-scale conflict for many years now. Honing our tactics, soldiers, enhancing our equipment and leadership.

What exactly have the Russian Armed Forces been up to the last 10 years?

I'm not trying to be flippant, if you know something they have done that is near the scale that our military has been operating at for over a decade now, please post it.

Experience and equipment wins out in the end, I say, although it would by no means be a blowout.

WE walked into one of THE most SCARY places on the planet in Iraq.
I think we know what to do.
We just want to make sure there is a GOOD reason for it and that we are allowed to do it right
OTHERWISE it isn't a place YOU want us to go and we don't want to be there.

We still have to survive when they don't care about us and put us in such places.
SOME posters here make the mistake of thinking we want it and we can't do it.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

THAT wussy wasn't a SCOUT my friend.
(Glory hound CAV you know)

Just the first one I found.

Just thought it was funny when discussing the Russian and US who would win. It's a shame though we can't actually do things like that instead of having to go to war.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

WE walked into one of THE most SCARY places on the planet in Iraq. I think we know what to do.

What? Throwing puppies off cliffs? Yeah that should shake up Russia.

a reply to: Dimithae


What's with your stark anti American position Bishop?
Who would you want to win in the event of large scale war?

a reply to: TechniXcality

I don't want ANY war. It brings out the animal in us and shows our weakness. We should be able to progress from that,don't you think? It destroys families,not just those over here,but where ever we fight. I refuse to support ANY war the US gets into UNTIL it stops fighting for money. And thats ALL these wars have been about. Anybody that thinks otherwise needs to wake up and look at what the CIA and NGO's have been up too.

a reply to: Dimithae

Well want and reality sometimes are in contrast don't you think? I agree to an extent we need to recover moral compass, but as I've said previously if its their head or yours its going to be theirs every time.

a reply to: TechniXcality

If I have no choice,I choose me and mine always. But I won't be forced into blood letting by a government that is making a profit off it. They want their profits,they can just shove their own kids in there and tell them its for THEIR future. LOL like that would ever happen.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: luthier

Clinton destroyed HUMINT by restraining our intelligence gathering to electronic dependency NOW, Obama is running ALL of this like Johnson from the whitehouse he IS NOT litening to anyone but his own people,he HIGHKLY resembles an ISLAMIC sympathizer and has shown his callous distain for American lives in the field.
He is either HIGHLY ignorant of world affairs and HE himself is manipulated OR he is TRYING to subvert the country.
Russia still is using their intelligaence as they always have since the are using the old SOVIET UNION models again.
THEY are strapped for cash surrounded by NATO and they are scared. I say when you knock a man down, help him get up.
WE DIDN'T DO THAT.
If we as individuals don't figure this out and remove the creatures who operate the puppet strings we will continue to pay with BLOOD. I WILL fight SATAN himself to do so ,death is easy.
I'm just not intelligent enough to know more.

OUR I am paranoid and ALL of my CONSPIRACIE THEORIES are false.
THE choice is YOURS but I WILL NEVER lie to any of you to bolster what I say.I may not be right,I guess we'll see.

Not only are you paranoid and have a pretty common conservative view its ridiculous.

If we had dealt with Iran years ago with a treaty rather than walk away from the nuke deal they would have maybe 100 centrifuges now we are talking about letting them keel thousands.

Diplomacy is king and our forefathers were all about it.

There are many neocon fake conservatives out there who know nothing of true Republicanism, the philosophies of our forefathers, or the actual constitution and bill of rights.

I also would question what unit you were in. Most people I know that use constant military lingo and are not current soldiers are fakes. If you love the country so much and the military why are you not currently a service man?

The modern neocon and most liberal points of view are nothing like what are forefathers believed in. The libertarian party is the only close resemblance to American ideals left and the public views them as insane.

Its best we sympathize, and negotiate rather than stir up the dust. Its easier to put spies in a country we communicate with on a friendly level and can get better intelligence that way.

Obama is no different than Bush, or any other puppet out there. I think his foreign policy is slightly better than the last guy.

Military advisors have been bought by the defense industry years and years ago so its not like ignoring some of them is a bad thing.
Ever listen to Eisenhowers exit speach or read much on JFK. Eisenhower was fighting men in Korea with American gear and was pissed the defense industry had come to funding both sides.

Grow up. Foreign soil wars are antiamerican. Trade, diplomacy, due process, and civil rights are American virtues and Neocon Republicans are just as responsible if not more so with Bush/Cheney to the degradation of American Values.

a reply to: Dimithae

WTF are YOU takiing anyway?
Come BACK AFTER your hallicinations are over so I TOO get your references...

originally posted by: Ensinger23
Avoiding the entire conventional vs. nuclear argument going on in the undertones of this thread...



Our military has been at war, or involved in some large-scale conflict for many years now. Honing our tactics, soldiers, enhancing our equipment and leadership.

What exactly have the Russian Armed Forces been up to the last 10 years?

I'm not trying to be flippant, if you know something they have done that is near the scale that our military has been operating at for over a decade now, please post it.

Experience and equipment wins out in the end, I say, although it would by no means be a blowout.

Its easy to look up. Military conflicts Russian has been involved with. Its a big list.

a reply to: luthier

THANK YOU Dr. I can't WAIT to hear your medical quilifications AS WELL as how effective your critical thinkng handles the written language.
As to MY military Lineage and HISTORY I have covered it MANY times and since you can't be bothered to EVEN check out my passed THREADS maybe your myopic logic is derived from the self serving effort of YOUR psudo philosphical anatysis that most attempt to use on me with the skills of a kindegarden student. Insted of analysing JUST what is in front of you.
I HAVE grown up PROG YOU need to WAKE UP.
maybe do more research ,instead of what the CELLPHONE tells you.
My Korean Ex was pretty thourough in how we saved Korea when I was stationed there as a blues scout.
THAT fact that you EVEN SAY NEOCoN is an indicator you are a programmed liberal who sucks on this PC GARBAGE and think YOU understand the world from your lofty perch NO DOUBT gleaned from College.

i forsee a loss if america or europe fights such a war, not by lack of numbers, money, training, equipment or anything like that. no what will cost us will be lack of centralization and control, inefficiency of leadership is good for democratic processes but it's terrible for waging full scale war.

america will only wage such a war when it casts off the republic and openly declares itself an empire to the world.