Should gay people fight for the right for anti-gay businesses to take their money or just boycott?

Think about it. If they hate gays so much that they're willing to make a "No Gays!" rule, then would you even want to trust them with your food anyway? Would you really want to give such a business your money?

Obviously, this type of discrimination is hypocritical for a nation that claims to believe in Liberty and Justice for all (which means ALL law-abiding citizens should be treated fairly/with justice and not discriminated against), but is it really worth it to even provide them with your money when they have shown their true colors.

If someone owned a company and believed women shouldn't vote, shouldn't work, and should stay in the kitchen but they are still willing to take a women's money, would many women actually want to give them their money?

Let me clarify; I'm not supporting discrimination because I still believe in Liberty and JUSTICE for ALL (law-abiding citizens), but at the same time, I don't think these type of people should be getting money/support from the very people they want to discriminate against.

What do you all think of this?

First of all, not all gay people are trying to cause trouble. In fact I blame liberal straight people for the controversy not gay folks. Also, no Christian that I have heard of has denied service to gay people. As far as I know you can go into any bakery in America and get a loaf of bread or a cupcake. The problem is when you ask someone to make a cake that would be used in what they perceive to be a sinful act. They don't want to knowingly participate in what they believe is a sin.

Both sides of this argument are idiots. However, most gay people are normal, caring human beings that probably uniquely understand the BS. The problem is the liberal media and blowing something so small out of proportion.

The liberal media and their supporters are not trying to withhold money from these businesses...they are trying to destroy their business. There is a difference and it isn't the gay folks that are driving this in the first place.

a reply to: Metallicus

They don't want to knowingly participate in what they believe is a sin.

Pretty funny as everyone is a sinner. They would make wedding cakes for divorced people but not gay people.

a reply to: arpgme

then would you even want to trust them with your food anyway?

They should be more worried about inspectors than gay people lol.

Anyway it's hard I know. Anti-discriminatory law is the best we got. If only people would behave we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

Hell if it were me I would be worried about everyone working there
spitting in the mix but other foreign stuff they could be adding.

And I would NOT support nor give money to any business that did not
treat every customer the same as they do not deserve it.

Cheers
Ektar

Not being funny but if you open a business to serve the public, you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate on who you serve.

No gays, no women, no whites, no blacks, no this, no that

Sure people jump behind having a right not to serve an individual because of their behaviour, totally acceptable, but to pre judge and section parts of society that you refuse to serve as a company policy is disgusting.

If you offer a service to the public, you shouldnt be allowed, by law to discriminate. Allow one form of discrimination, you open the flood gates.

divide and conquer

Well if gay people are going to get mad and do something. You would think Westborough Baptist is at the top of their list. ( massive amount of sarcasm)

a reply to: arpgme

I don't think it's so much about forcing a a specific business to make some specific food for gay people. It's more about business owners USING their businesses to show public disapproval of a group of people by trying to shame them with righteous judgment as unworthy of the same rights as the rest of us.

If a bakery refused to serve me because of my gender, race, or religion, I wouldn't force them to make my cake. I certainly wouldn't eat it. But I might sue them for discrimination. NOT so they'd have to make me a cake, but so they couldn't USE their business to justify their bigotry.

A business owner has a certain "standing" in a community. They are in contract with the state, and therefore have to follow state laws in doing business with the public. It's part of living in civilized society. If they USE their state-sponsored standing to show conspicuous piety, it gives their opinion a certain "weight" that it shouldn't have.

If gay people won't get served in a bakery for a wedding cake why don't they just go somewhere else? Making a big issue out of it is just so.....gay.

Why would they want a cake baked with hate anyway?

a reply to: arpgme

It seems there are generally three teams in this game...

The bigots who want to selectively pick their "religious beliefs" in order to discriminate against others (come on, picking out LGBT people while ignoring everything else in that book is clear bs, and we all know it).

Then there are those who believe all businesses should be forced to provide service to all under the law, without discriminating based on gender, race, sexuality etc.

Then there are those who seem to want to return to an old "wild west" America where anyone can put a sign in their window saying "no gays", "no blacks" or "no jews" etc.

Here's the deal...

There is no option of saying anyone can refuse to serve anyone they don't like. Want to know why? Because that would be basically admitting that you've failed to evolve as a society and are happy to accept racism, bigotry, intolerance. If you seriously go back to this you are sowing the seeds for more racial tension, more hatred, more intolerance an more bigotry. A cohesive society doesn't just come about from nothing, if you don't work on inclusion and breaking DOWN walls you end up with a fractious society with increased tribalism.

Obviously, American society is evolving, and on this particular issue it is evolving fast. Whatever your political views you cannot possibly deny that LGBT rights are increasingly important, and not because of some "conspiracy" (no matter how the extreme right wants to pretend that's the case).

All data shows, FOR A FACT, that the young are more inclined to support equality and rights for all, in contrast to what the Republican party wants, or what the Christian right wing wants.

Ultimately, there is only one way this can all go. Public opinion is pushing for equality all over the USA, and this argument is a part of that. What you are seeing here is a desperate fight back from the right wing conservatives attempting to push through laws they know the public does not want, and now they're getting heat for it they are freaking out.

The Republican party is predominantly controlled by the Christian lobby, and that lobby will not be happy to see the party moving with the public on this issue. The Republican party is now in an impossible position. It cannot keep their Tea Party core happy unless they fight for exclusion and intolerance, and the public will not accept that - as seen by the public opinion working against Indiana.

Whatever your political views, no sane person can claim that this is not public opinion speaking. It's been loud, it's been clear, and it's been entirely without any "gay lobby" or "liberal mafia".

Some conservative will be along any moment now to claim that this is all the work of the gay mafia, because it's their go-to claim when public opinion is against their views, they cannot accept that most Americans are decent, moral people who don't like discrimination, they would prefer they were all rabid Bible-thumpers like them. Tough luck, the people are speaking and they are doing so loudly.

My guess is that in some of the instances of say a bakery refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding, the couple that went in to order it did not initially know that their service was going to be refused. YELP and Google Reviews don't exactly make clear what patronage they cater to (unless it is publicized after refusal of service). Perhaps the onus is on the business owner who may have falsely advertised that they do custom orders to the public when that is not indeed the case. They do custom orders for a specific group of the public or refuse to do orders for a specific group of the public.

Many businesses where I live will have an equality flag sticker posted on their window or door to show that they are open to business to any patron.

a reply to: ProleUK

Absolutely right.

What people are not considering is that the rest of the world (or at least all the countries the US really wants to deal with) will not accept this either. You cannot have a society in 2015 where businesses can put up discrimination signs against serving entire groups of people.

This is not a solution, going back to some 1950's mentality is not the way to evolve as a society.

Can you imagine the billions of $'s lost in tourism if this was the law in the US?

It's not gonna happen, so people can forget this wild west, scorched-Earth, knee-jerk "solution".

This should be an easy question but is not. There is a difference between PC and respecting beliefs.

I can make tshirts saying anything you like. Someone I know asked me to make some with something I felt was wrong and I said no.

Am I wrong for doing so and just because others would say the tshirts were accepatable should I be forced by society to do something I am not happy with?

The simple answer is as others have said, move along. Ask for a service, if that service is refused then ask someone else. Why give money to someone that does not like your lifestlye choice?

originally posted by: nerbot
If gay people won't get served in a bakery for a wedding cake why don't they just go somewhere else? Making a big issue out of it is just so.....gay.

Why would they want a cake baked with hate anyway?

i wouldn't but more to the point, if your wife or mum got refused service because she is female, or dressed in a certain way, you'd be offended. What if, apart from the humiliation they were put through in the store by the owner, they had no-where else to go to get what they needed. Someone comes online and smartly says, go else where, their kind wasn't welcome, someone else will open up and give the demand.

Morally wrong on so many levels. Don't offer services if you are going to discriminate.

originally posted by: nerbot
... why don't they just go somewhere else?

Three hours away? Not everyone lives in a large town or city, you know? There is exactly ONE bakery in my town.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

If a bakery refused to serve me because of my gender, race, or religion, I wouldn't force them to make my cake. I certainly wouldn't eat it. But I might sue them for discrimination. NOT so they'd have to make me a cake, but so they couldn't USE their business to justify their bigotry.

That makes sense. Sue to get rid of discrimination that treat others unfairly and boycott. It doesn't have to be either/or. If they choose to apologize and say "now we believe in equal rights and will not use the money from our services for anti-gay laws" then maybe.

a reply to: nonspecific

to be fair it depends on the message

if it said and urged people to kill a particular person or instigate violence, common sense would say no i wont print that.

if it was Jenny loves Fiona happy wedding , seriously what the hell.

easy to say your senaio without stating what it was that was so wrong

to me it comes down to harm caused. i mean no t shirt maker would allow t shirts to be printed with 'death to &*(^^(' ' or whoever

originally posted by: nonspecific
Am I wrong for doing so and just because others would say the tshirts were accepatable should I be forced by society to do something I am not happy with?

Absolutely not! Not ONE of the legal cases in the news is because of the MESSAGE on a cake. They are because they were refused the CAKE.

If a female customer asked you to put "I love my husband" on a shirt and you happily complied, and then a male customer asked you to put "I love my husband" on a shirt and you denied to do it, THEN you'd be discriminating.

Why bother?

just boycott.

Why force someone who doesn't like you into taking your money? Go to someone who respects and appreciates your business while not judging.

seems simple to me.

JUDE!!

originally posted by: ProleUK
a reply to: nonspecific

to be fair it depends on the message

if it said and urged people to kill a particular person or instigate violence, common sense would say no i wont print that.

if it was Jenny loves Fiona happy wedding , seriously what the hell.

easy to say your senaio without stating what it was that was so wrong

to me it comes down to harm caused. i mean no t shirt maker would allow t shirts to be printed with 'death to &*(^^(' ' or whoever

I agree but my point was that it is ultimatley my right to choose(I do not agree btw just playing devils advocate).

Would a homosexual baker be happy to make a cake for the western baptist church? on this basis it would be wrong to refuse service based on what is a belief?

Surely the right to decide lies with the business and the owner alone?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: nonspecific
Am I wrong for doing so and just because others would say the tshirts were accepatable should I be forced by society to do something I am not happy with?

Absolutely not! Not ONE of the legal cases in the news is because of the MESSAGE on a cake. They are because they were refused the CAKE.

If a female customer asked you to put "I love my husband" on a shirt and you happily complied, and then a male customer asked you to put "I love my husband" on a shirt and you denied to do it, THEN you'd be discriminating.

Yes I would but it would be my choice.

It should always be my choice to decide what I choose or choose not to do.