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The Questions That Abiogenesis Needs To Answer, Before Evolution.
page: 17share:
a reply to: dragonridr
Don't ask me, my spiritual path has no creation myth as such, and the deities die, and breed etc. The whole monotheistic thing, with omi everything deities don't make sense to me. I think its very much something to make people feel at peace in the universe, that there is an all powerful being who has their back. It sort of removes obligations of taking responsibility for ones self however. "God made me this way" and "evil happens as a lesson for us all" vs "I'm a screw up I better change" and "Stop that it is wrong".
I'm not your average spiritual person or scientist however so *Shrug*?
Don't ask me, my spiritual path has no creation myth as such, and the deities die, and breed etc. The whole monotheistic thing, with omi everything deities don't make sense to me. I think its very much something to make people feel at peace in the universe, that there is an all powerful being who has their back. It sort of removes obligations of taking responsibility for ones self however. "God made me this way" and "evil happens as a lesson for us all" vs "I'm a screw up I better change" and "Stop that it is wrong".
I'm not your average spiritual person or scientist however so *Shrug*?
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
Yeah keep trying bucko, you might even be able to keep up with the adults at some point. But that thread of yours is already one you don't want actual science being talked about
Yeah keep trying bucko, you might even be able to keep up with the adults at some point. But that thread of yours is already one you don't want actual science being talked about
a reply to: Barcs
I thought your response was quite polite as you didn't call me a liar or an idiot which is a step in the right direction. I think I will make this my last post however as I find it all very stressful coping with so many ego's
You do have a tendency to view everything as wrong or right, as if this debate was about point scoring which of course it goes way beyond that. A strong belief, in a way is far more important than strong evidence because it shapes the way a person conducts his life. I knew my statement regarding a missing faculty would raise a few feathers and I also anticipated that it would be construed as a slight on ones intellectual capacity. I feel I need to clear that up.
Every human being exists in four states of consciousness, each state exists on a separate plane of existence
I. The physical
II. The emotional state
III. The mental state
IV. The causal state
Each of these are fairly self evident, except for perhaps the causal.
Hylozoics explains, that each state is activated within four different dimensions of reality.
Many people spend most of their waking lives subjectively in the emotional dimension in either higher or lower emotional states.
Consciousness drifts easily between each of these dimensional states of reality.
When focus is relaxed, consciousness drifts back and forth through the dimensions. A noise, perhaps snaps you into the physical world or a headline on the news, may slides your consciousness into the mental plane or news of an accident can send your consciousness plummeting into the lower emotional plane.
When we are hungry, or other bodily needs demand. Our focus moves firmly into our objective physical dimension.
A large proportion of humanity spend a great deal of time in the emotional dimension, being entertained by watching activities that stimulate our emotions, being joyful or being angry or jealous or envious the entire spectrum of human emotions drifting between the higher and lower planes of the emotional world, which is also referred to by some as Maya or the world of illusions.
When we study, or apply great thought to a subject particularly academic pursuits, we place out conscious attention firmly but subjectively in the mental plane. Whilst here, we are free of emotions, as it is a completely different plane of existence.
At any time, our conscious focus will move between these planes instantly. If someone talks to you when you are deep in thought for example, your consciousness slips back into the physical plane. an example would be if that person told you your dog had died, you would immediately slip into the emotional plane, you can't think straight because you have moved out of the mental plane and for a few moments the person with you may well as not exist, because your focus is not in the physical world. It has moved subjectively onto a different plane of reality. Sometimes it is very difficult to return from the emotional world until we can ‘get ourselves together’ so to speak.
The fourth plane that we move in and out of, but far less frequently is the causal plane, it is here where humanity has access to intuitive thought and much much more. All creative thoughts originate from this plane, all common sense comes from here. The causal plane is where the collective memory of all our previous lives are stored, it is the world of spiritual enlightenment, it is where we can converse with what some people refer to as our higher self. It is also where we have access to, ‘by proxy through intelligent entities, our own human collective consciousness.
Many people live most of their lives in the emotional plane unaware of lifeforms that occupy that plane of existence.
Academics spend much of their time in the mental plane and can appear cold or unfeeling to someone in the physical world, but in reality it is just that they are not in the emotional or physical world and are focused on a task at hand. Academics work very hard to maintain their focus on the mental plane as it is in this dimensional reality where things get worked out logical, factual, pragmatic, mathematical.
Artistic people, very young children, devotional types of characters, spend much of their lives moving between the physical the emotional and the causal worlds. As with the mental and emotional planes, there are sub-planes with upper and lower causal an upper and lower mental and emotional.
The planes could be best described as harmonics of very fine matter with a continuous spectrum between each plane. The planes merely highlight the sweet spot, much like tuning a radio. The planes could be described as the frequency where things come together in focus.
Of course we all spend time on the four different planes although some people scarcely ever venture into the causal world. People who spend much time meditating find themselves in the higher emotional, and sometimes will switch from a subjective experience to an objective reality. They briefly see the world of Maya including it’s occupants.
When we die, our conscious focus enters objectively into the world of Maya the same world we spend much of our physical life. We see this world as a physical world that has its own laws of physics it is a world where our imagination creates our reality. Our etheric body dies along with our physical body because while we where alive it acted as a conduit providing the energies required for life. All living biological organisms have an etheric body that fits exactly to the physical. It is through this that all life is animated. Our new body in the emotional world is composed of the much finer matter, as is everything on that plane. Science would probably refer to this matter as dark energy.
Eventually, your emotional body will dissolve and your consciousness then attains objective reality on the mental plane which is composed of even finer and more energetic matter. Most people would describe this place as heaven. The lower emotional world contains elements of duality, some would call that good and evil. From the mental plane on, there is only an intense sensation of bliss. In fact the higher through the planes we travel the more intense the sensation of bliss, some call this sensation love, it is an energy, a force that runs through everything constantly. Its affects are least felt on the physical plane.
Few, but not so many people, awaken on the causal plane. When they do, they get some input as to what their next physical life should be and spend time learning from advanced beings who have passed through the human kingdom and also beings that followed a different evolutionary path. The help we all receive from these benevolent beings is profoundly humbling.
When you pass from that world, the next thing you are aware of is somebody slapping you into the reality of the physical world as you take on a new physical body.
So back to my statement;
"it is your incapacity or a missing faculty that denies you from seeing the same as some other people"
I. Where is it you have you trained your consciousness to spend most of your waking hours?
II. Which world or worlds, do you spend the most of your time?
III. How often do you tune your consciousness to access the causal plane? because it is not where you would go to work something out.
I thought your response was quite polite as you didn't call me a liar or an idiot which is a step in the right direction. I think I will make this my last post however as I find it all very stressful coping with so many ego's
You do have a tendency to view everything as wrong or right, as if this debate was about point scoring which of course it goes way beyond that. A strong belief, in a way is far more important than strong evidence because it shapes the way a person conducts his life. I knew my statement regarding a missing faculty would raise a few feathers and I also anticipated that it would be construed as a slight on ones intellectual capacity. I feel I need to clear that up.
Every human being exists in four states of consciousness, each state exists on a separate plane of existence
I. The physical
II. The emotional state
III. The mental state
IV. The causal state
Each of these are fairly self evident, except for perhaps the causal.
Hylozoics explains, that each state is activated within four different dimensions of reality.
Many people spend most of their waking lives subjectively in the emotional dimension in either higher or lower emotional states.
Consciousness drifts easily between each of these dimensional states of reality.
When focus is relaxed, consciousness drifts back and forth through the dimensions. A noise, perhaps snaps you into the physical world or a headline on the news, may slides your consciousness into the mental plane or news of an accident can send your consciousness plummeting into the lower emotional plane.
When we are hungry, or other bodily needs demand. Our focus moves firmly into our objective physical dimension.
A large proportion of humanity spend a great deal of time in the emotional dimension, being entertained by watching activities that stimulate our emotions, being joyful or being angry or jealous or envious the entire spectrum of human emotions drifting between the higher and lower planes of the emotional world, which is also referred to by some as Maya or the world of illusions.
When we study, or apply great thought to a subject particularly academic pursuits, we place out conscious attention firmly but subjectively in the mental plane. Whilst here, we are free of emotions, as it is a completely different plane of existence.
At any time, our conscious focus will move between these planes instantly. If someone talks to you when you are deep in thought for example, your consciousness slips back into the physical plane. an example would be if that person told you your dog had died, you would immediately slip into the emotional plane, you can't think straight because you have moved out of the mental plane and for a few moments the person with you may well as not exist, because your focus is not in the physical world. It has moved subjectively onto a different plane of reality. Sometimes it is very difficult to return from the emotional world until we can ‘get ourselves together’ so to speak.
The fourth plane that we move in and out of, but far less frequently is the causal plane, it is here where humanity has access to intuitive thought and much much more. All creative thoughts originate from this plane, all common sense comes from here. The causal plane is where the collective memory of all our previous lives are stored, it is the world of spiritual enlightenment, it is where we can converse with what some people refer to as our higher self. It is also where we have access to, ‘by proxy through intelligent entities, our own human collective consciousness.
Many people live most of their lives in the emotional plane unaware of lifeforms that occupy that plane of existence.
Academics spend much of their time in the mental plane and can appear cold or unfeeling to someone in the physical world, but in reality it is just that they are not in the emotional or physical world and are focused on a task at hand. Academics work very hard to maintain their focus on the mental plane as it is in this dimensional reality where things get worked out logical, factual, pragmatic, mathematical.
Artistic people, very young children, devotional types of characters, spend much of their lives moving between the physical the emotional and the causal worlds. As with the mental and emotional planes, there are sub-planes with upper and lower causal an upper and lower mental and emotional.
The planes could be best described as harmonics of very fine matter with a continuous spectrum between each plane. The planes merely highlight the sweet spot, much like tuning a radio. The planes could be described as the frequency where things come together in focus.
Of course we all spend time on the four different planes although some people scarcely ever venture into the causal world. People who spend much time meditating find themselves in the higher emotional, and sometimes will switch from a subjective experience to an objective reality. They briefly see the world of Maya including it’s occupants.
When we die, our conscious focus enters objectively into the world of Maya the same world we spend much of our physical life. We see this world as a physical world that has its own laws of physics it is a world where our imagination creates our reality. Our etheric body dies along with our physical body because while we where alive it acted as a conduit providing the energies required for life. All living biological organisms have an etheric body that fits exactly to the physical. It is through this that all life is animated. Our new body in the emotional world is composed of the much finer matter, as is everything on that plane. Science would probably refer to this matter as dark energy.
Eventually, your emotional body will dissolve and your consciousness then attains objective reality on the mental plane which is composed of even finer and more energetic matter. Most people would describe this place as heaven. The lower emotional world contains elements of duality, some would call that good and evil. From the mental plane on, there is only an intense sensation of bliss. In fact the higher through the planes we travel the more intense the sensation of bliss, some call this sensation love, it is an energy, a force that runs through everything constantly. Its affects are least felt on the physical plane.
Few, but not so many people, awaken on the causal plane. When they do, they get some input as to what their next physical life should be and spend time learning from advanced beings who have passed through the human kingdom and also beings that followed a different evolutionary path. The help we all receive from these benevolent beings is profoundly humbling.
When you pass from that world, the next thing you are aware of is somebody slapping you into the reality of the physical world as you take on a new physical body.
So back to my statement;
"it is your incapacity or a missing faculty that denies you from seeing the same as some other people"
I. Where is it you have you trained your consciousness to spend most of your waking hours?
II. Which world or worlds, do you spend the most of your time?
III. How often do you tune your consciousness to access the causal plane? because it is not where you would go to work something out.
edit on 8-4-2015 by kennyb72 because: punctuation
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
The problem is YOU and others like you look at the end product and work your way back to the start.
MAN made god here is REAL EVIDENCE Names of gods all of those MAN created , all those people who had faith in those gods had creation stories stories they are all different they CAN'T all be right BUT they CAN all be WRONG!
Have a look here at how CREATIONISTS look at probability or should it be improbability.
A whole host of things have happened to the Earth to get us to this point, had the dinosaurs not been wiped out we might not have appeared for example, if we were closer or further from the sun life may have been different or may not have happened.
We know the building blocks for life can be found in space and due to size and numbers life as it has thought to have happened is far more logical than stories made up by primitive man.
The problem is YOU and others like you look at the end product and work your way back to the start.
MAN made god here is REAL EVIDENCE Names of gods all of those MAN created , all those people who had faith in those gods had creation stories stories they are all different they CAN'T all be right BUT they CAN all be WRONG!
Have a look here at how CREATIONISTS look at probability or should it be improbability.
A whole host of things have happened to the Earth to get us to this point, had the dinosaurs not been wiped out we might not have appeared for example, if we were closer or further from the sun life may have been different or may not have happened.
We know the building blocks for life can be found in space and due to size and numbers life as it has thought to have happened is far more logical than stories made up by primitive man.
edit on 8-4-2015 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
Why is abiogenesis needed to explain the theory of evolution? Please explain that to me.
It does not matter how it happened. It HAPPENED!!!!
Maybe some unicorn pooped rainbows and boom a big bang happened. Nothing to do with evolution.
Abiogenesis remains an enigma of theories, yet it needs to be achieved to even get to the theory of evolution.
Why is abiogenesis needed to explain the theory of evolution? Please explain that to me.
It does not matter how it happened. It HAPPENED!!!!
Maybe some unicorn pooped rainbows and boom a big bang happened. Nothing to do with evolution.
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
Are you on drugs?
I never said, nor do I mean, any such thing. Stop putting lies into my mouth.
And you meant 'AFFECTED' not 'EFFECTED'.
You mean there was no gender evolution that effected breeding, hey there is a thread on that too .
Are you on drugs?
I never said, nor do I mean, any such thing. Stop putting lies into my mouth.
And you meant 'AFFECTED' not 'EFFECTED'.
a reply to: Deaf Alien
Well it seems that most posters in this thread are avoiding one particular word from the thread title
Title of thread
I let this go on this long without bringing it to anybodies attention so the usual posts could be made to ad nauseam, and now they have.
The reality is, every poster is actually correct technically in how current science defines it all, but these things have to happen BEFORE evolution even starts.
And there are questions that need to be answered about abiogenesis.
And if anybody says no questions about abiogeneisis need to be answered, then it is intellectual dishonesty and a form of bias dissonance.
I just ask the question what would actually bring a person to that state?
Some sort of mental and emotional PSTD, from a spiritual crisis suffered in the past.
I think I just discovered my next thread title
Look for it soon.
Well it seems that most posters in this thread are avoiding one particular word from the thread title
Title of thread
The Questions That Abiogenesis Needs To Answer, Before Evolution.
I let this go on this long without bringing it to anybodies attention so the usual posts could be made to ad nauseam, and now they have.
The reality is, every poster is actually correct technically in how current science defines it all, but these things have to happen BEFORE evolution even starts.
And there are questions that need to be answered about abiogenesis.
And if anybody says no questions about abiogeneisis need to be answered, then it is intellectual dishonesty and a form of bias dissonance.
I just ask the question what would actually bring a person to that state?
Some sort of mental and emotional PSTD, from a spiritual crisis suffered in the past.
I think I just discovered my next thread title
Look for it soon.
edit on 8-4-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
Going by that, adding the "before evolution" to the title was unnecessary. If you have concerns with what the Abiogenesis hypothesis says and predicts, fine. But mentioning evolution at the beginning of the discussion only muddies the waters and makes people think you can't tell the difference between the two. In fact, it makes you look like you did it intentionally to troll people into pointing out that abiogenesis and evolution are two separate topics.
Going by that, adding the "before evolution" to the title was unnecessary. If you have concerns with what the Abiogenesis hypothesis says and predicts, fine. But mentioning evolution at the beginning of the discussion only muddies the waters and makes people think you can't tell the difference between the two. In fact, it makes you look like you did it intentionally to troll people into pointing out that abiogenesis and evolution are two separate topics.
a reply to: Krazysh0t
It depends if people are thinking in scientific concepts or philosophical concepts, it was a title designed to cast a large net to engage both sides of the debate, and it did. 17 pages of it.
It depends if people are thinking in scientific concepts or philosophical concepts, it was a title designed to cast a large net to engage both sides of the debate, and it did. 17 pages of it.
edit on 8-4-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
Maybe if you call tricking one side of the discussion into debating a strawman casting a large net...
Maybe if you call tricking one side of the discussion into debating a strawman casting a large net...
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
Maybe if you call tricking one side of the discussion into debating a strawman casting a large net...
Or losing a debate and then deciding to change the whole premise of the argument to discredit the opposition... maybe that's "casting a large net"?
I don't know, I'm new to the whole compulsive internet trolling scene.
originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Krazysh0t
So which is the strawman then ?
The scientific concepts or philosophical concepts ?
The strawman is the insinuation that your title makes that evolution relies on the abiogenesis hypothesis to be true in order for it to be true as well. As you have no claimed, that wasn't a point your were trying to express in your OP though. But it wasn't dire enough to you to correct anyone for 16 pages. This makes it look like you did it intentionally to deceive people.
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