Showing how the first pyramids of ancient Egypt may be 19,000 years old

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Variable

The sphinx is even older than the pyramids. you can tell that from the erosion on it. It happenned when it was wetter.

Some theories from certain people here suggest we might be the 5th itheration of humanity to exist here.

Ahh...but the theory that the tilt of the Earth's axis suddenly and dramatically shifted, would imply something sudden and dramatic happened to the planet that started the rapid end of the ice age, and of course the relatively rapid melting of the vast ice sheets.

What could have caused this sudden end to the ice age? Asteroid impacts heralding the start of the end of the ice age actually has some merit. Not only that, there is physical evidence locked up in our geology that shows the Northern hemisphere took a battering from space, with the entire hemisphere being peppered by relatively small (non ELE), but very numerous meteorite impacts, occurring somewhere between 14,000 - 18,000 YA.

The physical weight of the massive sheets of ice covering almost a third to half of the planet, suddenly (relatively) being removed due to the ice melting and the weight dramatically lifting would have caused several undesirable physical effects.

One immediately noticeable effect would have been major, worldwide weather disruptions. Without the giant, white, sunlight reflectors that the ice sheets would have been, more Solar radiation would reach the surface, and not be reflected back into space...the Earth would have warmed up, causing weather not seen for generations.

Droughts, floods, missed monsoons, scorching heat where once was temperate conditions (and vice versa) and a lot more would become commonplace.

Another effect would have been the Earth pole shifting, the weight of the water ice suddenly being lifted would have created an imbalance, like a boat at sea loaded with it's cargo shifting from port to starboard, the boat will shift it's position in the water reacting to the change in weight distribution of the cargo...same thing for the millions of tonnes of ice water for the ice sheets.

This would cause massive floods, like a bathtub sloshing over the sides if you move too fast in the bath...the seas would inundate the lands, swallowing the low lying settlements and infrastructure and travelling far inland.

This brings us back to the Sphinx and it's water erosion.

If the weather changes and the inland flooding, tidal waves, tsunamis and so on happened as above, this would explain the deep weathering on the Sphinx...the Giza complex Pyramids also show similar signs of being inundated with a massive and powerful flood..at least once.

The missing casing stones, from the Great Pyramid, were assumed to have been robbed off over time, as other later monuments nearby have the former casing stones incorporated in the constructions...but were they robbed of the Pyramids or were they simply scavenged and picked up from the ground after they were dislodged and swept off the Pyramid, damaged and eroded by powerful and fast flowing flood waters?

I think perhaps the latter...these casing stones, IMO, were not meant to lend a decorative effect to the Pyramids, but rather were designed and placed on the outer surface of the Pyramids, to act as a shield to protect the entire constriction from one of natures most destructive forces...raging, tumultuous, flowing water from tsunamis and floods.

They obviously worked as intended, to a degree anyway as the Pyramids are still in existence, even though the outer stones were scoured off the surface of the Pyramids, they would have to be considered successful if only accidentally ablative in action...a win is a win regardless.

There are, high up within the interior of the Pyramids, approximately at the level where the upper portions of the casing stones remain (approx two-thirds up the Pyramid), there are layers of 'tide marks' (imagine being filthy, having a bath and seeing the dirt/scum line after emptying the bath water) these are made of sea salt and minerals..the theory being that the water did make it's way into the superstructure either directly flooding it, or over time slowly percolating into the interior of the Pyramids, leaving behind this 'tide mark' once the water levels receded.

This scouring off of the harder casing stones, together with the water damage to the Sphinx, are evidence of this great and massive flooding and ingress of massive quantities of water over Giza certainly and probably the entire region, or even Hemisphere.

I too, like a lot of you here it seems, believe civilisation, even technologically advanced civilisation similar to our own today have existed in the remote and distant past, well beyond recorded history and largely forgotten due to massive calamities experienced by our ancestors over the millennia, the truth of which only really now exists in folklore, disjointed and distorted oral traditional history (myth) and in the more resilient, mammoth buildings left behind that we have puzzled over for centuries.

Just one more reason to accelerate the planning and implementation of off-world colonies and bases..whther that ultimately means permanent Lunar bases / habitats, colonies preserving recorded history of Humanity of Earth on Mars, or one of the Saturnian or Jovian Moons, some of which seem to be more promising to facilitate a future Human colony than either our Moon or Mars does.

We need to spread our wings...before they get clipped again, perhaps next time permanently so.

a reply to: babybunnies

What if the 17,000 year old cities were built by an advanced culture of humans, hard to estimate their relevant knowledge, but they were sophisticated with what they had (humans 1800's-1900's?) and then civilization collapsed due to flood/drought/meteor/nuclear/Mel Gibson idk. So maybe only several thousand remained on different parts of Earth, some may have always been nomads, but now that there was no government, schools, hospitals, anything, everyone became nomadic to find optimal living space.

After a few thousand years of trying to find a habitable place to build towns, and it was hard because either it was hard to find food or the weather was harsh or radiation that small groups traveled in constant search for the basic necesseties. Kids were only taught how to live, incest used to continue a family, deformations, etc. occured over a few thousand years so then there are groups of homo sapiens and cavemen and likley others, cavemen pretty much devolved from humans since their race had no need to want to rebuild society, or have currency, or build structures, they were only taught to seek shelter and hunt and gather food, so they kept doing it and teaching it, blocking out others who did not, thus they became extinct 10,000 years ago and we are back to where we are at today because some never gave up trying to rebuild a better way.

This cycle could easily go on and on for millions of years if one were open to it. I wonder what is below Earths thousands of pyramids. Remnants of pyramids before that? Cubes? Spheres? Skyscrapers?
It's not very logical to presume that all these structures here today are pyramids by chance either. Either the people were much better sailors or had planes or large birds to ride in order to spread info everywhere, or it was told to them by another being that could do all these, or it was within their race to do so without outside help, or there is a collective world conscious where some tap into that to get inspiration and feedback. I don't know all the answers, but history as it is told today (school texts) really has as much credence as myths from the past imho.

a reply to: iDope

Agree with your thinking to a large degree.

The Pyramids...were the Arks of civilisation (good book title there)..the builders knew unimaginable calamity was coming, couldn't get off world, and so they did the next best thing...they set out to ensure something of their culture, knowledge, history, religion and great works of art and technology were preserved, hopefully safe inside monumental constructions, but if the building lost integrity and the interior failed to protect the contents, at the very least, huge evidence of culture, knowledge, technology and art would remain, encoded in the actual monuments themselves, remaining for millennia after the calamity, even as ruins.

I have a feeling the elites and those with certain privileged positions within our world have always known about this, and concealed the facts from our collective memories.

Probably for more than one reason, but i think the central reason was to keep this knowledge from the general populace to enable civilisation to recover and progress, without the hindrance of the terrifying knowledge that one day, perhaps tomorrow, perhaps far into the future...it is going to happen again, and once more reduce the majority of people, who are mostly completely ignorant and completely unprepared for any calamity, much less one that would destroy our collective societies.

These buildings were built to last, and built to convey a message to a recovered, and technological civilisation...the message is;

We were like you and we were destroyed by this calamity at this time. Prepare your civilisations, because this is going to happen again.

Thank you for posting this link.


I agree with the article. History is older and stranger than we know. I feel it helps vindicate what many of our ATS members have been saying for years.


Tips hat and feels a bit proud to be part of this online community of open minded thinkers that seem to be dragging some of the old guard kicking and screaming into a new perspective.

Yes, it is my understanding that those pyramids are around 10,000 plus years old.

They are where the majority of humanity came back up from underground after living there for a long period of time after the collapse of Atlantis.

The great pyramid was actually constructed from the bottom up, as we emerged back onto the surface of Earth.

Soon, if not already, they will discover this. It will have a huge impact on society, religions mostly. So releasing these facts will have to be done carefully. I am under the belief that those closest to the pyramids and studying the underground areas, already have figured it out.

It is an interesting premise but not one i necessarily put any credence into. However, if new theories aren't postulated and examined, how are we ever going to learn anything? That is to say, just because i don't necessarily agree it doesn't mean i am right and you are wrong (or vice versa) - we just need to keep pushing the boundaries and extend our knowledge.

I do find it interesting that no one is prepared to take a crack at Professor Michel Barsoum's work in which he effectively shows how the limestones blocks were made artificially (using natural ingredients), rather than cut in a natural form. Whilst this solves the construction queries that many people have, i don't believe that it significantly takes anything away from the mystery - if anything it adds to it (in that "ancient" man had some very simple technology that is better than what we currently use).

a reply to: MysterX

I have a feeling the elites and those with certain privileged positions within our world have always known about this, and concealed the facts from our collective memories.

I would suspect free masons at minimum have much of the knowledge encrypted within given their symbolism nearly always ties to ancient Egypt in a way.

These buildings were built to last, and built to convey a message to a recovered, and technological civilisation...the message is; We were like you and we were destroyed by this calamity at this time. Prepare your civilisations, because this is going to happen again.

So they built the pyramids to store knowledge for generations knowing that a calamity was on the way? Or these arks were built in case of emergency, don't panic? The great pyramid doesn't even have much writing inside, or really anything within, under perhaps, Thoth tablets, dragon bones, alien statues, an old knight guarding the holy grail, sand.
I think that in the populace's mind, they know calamity can strike at anytime, like that Mayhem guy from Allstate. Volcanoes blow, earthquakes ruin, tornados, storms, etc, but a truly big mother of all storms is hard to envision, yet is always possible. I don't think elite know when it is going to happen based off of the pyramids or any knowledge telling the future, but they do have knowledge about possible disasters that are left out of media for sure. So if the president ever goes on tv to warn of an event, he is already in shelter days before we hear it.

I personally see people destroying people before a major calamity of natural forces. Sure a big natural disaster is due likley this century, but nowhere near ending human population, even if 99% die in the world theres 72 million people left. We are bipedal cockroaches that scutter to a NWO (New Way Out). An actual NWO would be less likley if natural disaster eliminated billions, nuclear war and fear of more nuclear war is the most nearsided workable solution they figured out. Nothing is feared more than nuclear bombs, fear so high that people plea and beg to be kept safe, even if it's from their own government who caused a few bombs to be dropped over there and here, they will nuke it all before they give up power. Theyll be in bunkers anyways and we will be at work with paper bags over our heads trying to get the last screw.

originally posted by: MysterX

There are, high up within the interior of the Pyramids, approximately at the level where the upper portions of the casing stones remain (approx two-thirds up the Pyramid), there are layers of 'tide marks' (imagine being filthy, having a bath and seeing the dirt/scum line after emptying the bath water) these are made of sea salt and minerals..the theory being that the water did make it's way into the superstructure either directly flooding it, or over time slowly percolating into the interior of the Pyramids, leaving behind this 'tide mark' once the water levels receded.

Any old buildings that use limestone as a building block are subject to this phenomenon. Most limestone is formed under sea. When it is used for building millions of years later, it becomes exposed to weathering. This weathering then unlocks minerals within the limestone that begin to "leech" out. As a local example, this is one of the big problems York Minster has faced since its construction in the Medieval period. I can guarantee York hasn't been deluged by the sea since the Minster was built!

a reply to: AthlonSavage

They didn't build any of them? Incredible claims do require incredible proof, something which is missing from both sides of the argument. There is more proof for Egyptians building the Pyramids in the form of stories told by them for years, written accounts, visible proof of development of the actual building of pyramids. Also the fact Pyramids infact many megalithic monuments across Egypt seem to always be on coast of the Nile, ask yourself why?

If you don't take into account the great pyramid (which I agree could be alot older, but also requires proof) what other Pyramid is mysterious?

Also to your casing stone post please explain how you seem to know the exact number of casing stones there were considering they have been removed for a good thousand or so years without documented accounts of them?

Only someone swimming in pure ignorance would claim the Egyptians didn't know maths, when their architecture proves the opposite.

originally posted by: Scott Creighton
Hi ATS,

It is my strongly-held belief that our species is much, much older and its origins more mysterious than many of us have been lead to believe by conventional wisdom.

You mean Sapiens is older than 200.000 years?
You mean Erectus is older than 2 millions years?


Damn, man. That's crazy!

Or maybe you mean you don't really understand what you talk about and mix "the origins of our species" with "the first civilizations"?


Yes, seems to be the case:

And science, it seems, is starting to agree:

No surprise then that if you don't really understand this topic you allow for so much pseudo-science in your OP.

The funniest is when you claim that "we have been led to believe" while at the same time showing a complete misunderstanding of the current findings about human history.


The fact that you consider the pyramids are 19.000 years olds when we have documented and dated accounts of their construction by the Egyptians themselves is laughable to say the least.

I don't think you are in a position to make a judgement about what "we have been led to believe" when you are prone to believe every nutjob theory posted on the net.

IMHO

No star for such a lazy and non documented OP

Posting a crazy video and saying "I believe it!" ? You surely can do better.



Of course the history of humans predates the written history. Anyone with half a brain knows we had tens if not hundreds of thousands of oral, symbolic and cultural tradition before that. Science knows it very well too.

It seems it's only conspiracy theorists who are brainwashed enough to actually believe archeology says it all started 6.000 years ago.

a reply to: undo

You should always take the bible with a pinch of salt. It is extremely vague and inaccurate and has been edited many times to suit various agendas. However, let's just say there is some truth to it. It is entirely possible that the fall of mankind from paradise is telling of how man became corrupted by technology and destroyed the planet, turning it from paradise into a wasteland.

The conditions described thereafter, up until the cleansing flood could very well be describing a post-nuclear war. It could possibly be some other sort of disaster but war is the most likely culprit. The flood could have been some sort of natural mechanism to rid the surface of its toxins (radioactivity and humans). There is so much about this planet we still don't understand.

The universe works in cycles, and if we are at a position now to destroy ourselves, then its extremely likely it has happened before. There is too much evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, to outright deny that possibility, and has already been stated, the ego of those in power pretty much dictates what we are told.

a reply to: Firefly_

What I would like to know about such theories about "previous human races", advanced in technologies and destroyed by cataclysms, is how they forgot how to write, how to draw, etc... ?

If someone can enlighten me?

Or maybe it's simply a continuation of the old myths found in many cultures about the 5 ages of man?


I have no doubt there have been different "civilizations" over the 200.000 years of Sapiens history. I have no doubt different human groups created new cultures, conquered new lands, then their civilization declined and became absorbed by new ones. Like with the Aryans, like with the Romans, like with the Mayans.


But to read this as "these previous civilizations had super-technologies then disappeared because of a worldwide flood or nuclear war", that's just wishfull thinking.


All archeological findings show a slow and steady continuous technological and cultural evolution that started at least 1 millions years ago. If there was a technologically advanced civilization during this ancient history, we would inevitably find traces of it.



Cataclysms, wars, floods, it doesn't make people forget how to speak or how to write. The human species is resilient.



"ancient technologically advanced civ" is a seducing theory if you love fantasy and sci-fi, but it's still a BS theory.

If you accept this theory and the cataclysmic implications, it makes the current saga of climate science and its vigorous denial all the more fascinating.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
If you accept this theory and the cataclysmic implications, it makes the current saga of climate science and its vigorous denial all the more fascinating.

What I personally find fascinating is that most people completely overlook the grand scale (and rather slow speed) of such things discussed here (human history, fall of civilizations, cataclysm, climate change) and project their own finitude to it.

For example we like to believe civilizations "die". When we look around us we see it's never the case. They simply transform, become absorbed into another, bigger or more successful culture.

Likewise, when cataclysm happen, it's not like everything suddenly stops, like a human being dying. The Asian tsunami killed 300.000 souls. It's a cataclysm of biblical proportions. Did life stop? Did civilization crumble? Did people suddenly become dumb and forgot how to write or build tools? All these changes are slow and tenuous, not shot and violent like people believe.



I never understand why people believe the human is not resilient and that civilization and technology cannot survive cataclysm. If anything it's simply a projection of their own fear, of their own finitude IMHO.

To quote Jeff:

a reply to: yuppa

The sphinx was buried in the sand for thousands of years which accounts for the damage not water.

Read Graham Hancock's fingerprints of the gods. It is incredibly in depth look at the structures of ancient giza. His research there is what led him down the ancient aalienspath, for better or worse.

It covers all of this, with no conclusions, just about 600 pages of evidence.

a reply to: Scott Creighton

S & F, this topic has always deeply intrigued me and it also excites me to hear more about it when it is coming from someone who has actually been to Giza Thank you OP

a reply to: AthlonSavage

I have to agree the eygptians didn't build them don't see any substantial proof of that. For all the bunkers who roll into this thread incredible claims require incredible proof, so lay out your incredible proof the Eygptians built them.

There is quite a bit of proof in the form of pottery and carbon dating. The pyramids core were not built to precise specifications, the outer covering was probably much more finished. The core, however, has some fairly large gaps between stones, the workers filled these gaps with stuff that they had around them and slop in mortar. They didn't have cement like we know, but what they did was burn gypsum to make mortar. Occasionally they found bits of charcoal in the mortared cracks. This they could carbon date. Also, they used pottery to carry everything, so there is tons and tons of shards all over in layers as it was used. There is a whole field of people who just study pottery.

Here is something from Lehner in an interview with Nova:

NOVA: Is there any evidence at all that an ancient civilization predating the civilization of Khufu, Khafre and Menkaure was there?

LEHNER: It's a good question. If they were there, you see—civilizations don't disappear without a trace. If archaeologists can go out and dig up a campsite of hunters and gatherers that was occupied 15,000 years ago, there's no way there could have been a complex civilization at a place like Giza or anywhere in the Nile Valley and they didn't leave a trace, because people eat, people poop, people leave their garbage around, and they leave their traces, they leave the traces of humanity.

The entire article is found here

I learned many things when reading it. Lehner was originally interested in the Great Pyramids by the writings of Edgar Cayce. Cayce believed the Pyramids were far older. Lehner went on to go to Yale and write several books. Pretty interesting guy.


V

originally posted by: ISawItFirst

Read Graham Hancock's fingerprints of the gods. It is incredibly in depth look at the structures of ancient giza. His research there is what led him down the ancient aalienspath, for better or worse.

It covers all of this, with no conclusions, just about 600 pages of evidence.

Like most of his kinds, Hancock makes a huge mistake when claiming archaeology thinks humans before the ice age had no knowledge of mathematics or astronomy.

Like many before him he is simply fascinated by the Atlantis myth, but it never occurred to him that science never said humans before the ice age were dumb.


If he actually read modern anthropology he would see science regularly finds trace of great craftsmanship and knowledge dating tens and hundreds of thousands of years back in time.

What people like Hancock claims is simply stating the obvious already accepted by science, and adding a mythological twist to it to appeal for the masses.

a reply to: MysterX

Another effect would have been the Earth pole shifting, the weight of the water ice suddenly being lifted would have created an imbalance, like a boat at sea loaded with it's cargo shifting from port to starboard, the boat will shift it's position in the water reacting to the change in weight distribution of the cargo...same thing for the millions of tonnes of ice water for the ice sheets.

So your saying a magnetic shift causes flooding? Didn't we go through all this during the 2012 fever dream? Pole shifts don't cause floods. The magnetic poles have been moving for years. They can flip. But it doesn't cause floods. Magnetic poles are not the earth moving.

V