Sumerian Calculations of Inter-Stellar Distances.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

How does the mathematic value Pi fit it into the relationship between heavenly bodies. I mean Pi is a constant and it directly relates to the sphere, and everying in your Op is discussing distances with and between spheres.

Im of the understanding they decided brighter stars were closer than dimmer ones. They figured distance both between stars plus that seeming depth of brightness.

They measured land distance in the same terms though, they thought the stars were attached to the sacred mountains in the distance (they thought the stars were very close by).

And another interesting thing to note that they believed the stars were gods. The same way we call our celebrities stars. Probably just a coincidence, right? Not like we worship celebrities or anything...

a reply to: AthlonSavage

They tended to look at things in terms of ratios and reciprocals

Because this is given as an actual fixed ratio (rather than being extrapolated from a circle area procedure) it’s arguably the first discovered value for pi. It’s also intriguing in that relating the inscribed polygon to the circle is how Archimedes gets the first truly rigorous calculation ofpi — he just adds more sides to get a closer estimate.

Babylonian value for Pi

They were interested in numeric sequence and the relationship of the sum of integers such as seen in say the Fibonaci sequence, so say they consider area of a pentagon =5/3 the side of the pentagon that relates thus in 3,5,8,13,21

The Hebrews used this formulae for their numeric structuring of their tribal system, were they derive a sum total of 80 for the 12 tribes by employing the sum of integers of 13 with 11 excluded (the 11th born daughter Dinah) and giving a reciprocal value by having the sons born to 4 different mothers, so an alternative count value.



40 was the sacred number of Enki and 15 of Inanna, the differential of 80 and 30 was 50 the sacred number of Enlil were 30 was the Moon or Suen, so they employed a very good way of encoding sacred number.

The tribal dispositions there around the 12 gated city are as according to the Dead Sea Temple scroll.



a reply to: Elementalist

Thanks, but of course really we owe everything to the academics that do the serious research such as the paper i sourced from by Eleanor Robson who is a veritable Nisaba when it comes to compiling data.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Excellent thread and a great read. I do believe you are on to something. The timing of the late neolithic age is key and you are wise to continue down that train of thought as far as development and eventual transition of sacred traditions passed down into that of a language of ruling classes of the ancient world. This of course being a set of traditions and sacred knowledge which were transmitted from an earlier language and cultural base even farther into the remote past.

There may even be genetic evidence in modern day royalty like tracking rh- blood from the remote past into ancient ruling families. What could be a separate genetic heritage can have different admixtures of different populations and considering the time we are talking about, could even have unique genetic admixtures from other hominids both known and unknown. Admixtures that are not present in most modern day humans, but that are still found in select groups of ruling traditions and peoples.

The transmission of sacred knowledge had its own language and writ that underwent linguistic evolution and change just like the the peoples who transmitted it from generation to generation underwent genetic evolution and change.

The babylonian Gods were gods incarnate, physical beings with families and clans. They were the precursor to the god kings and divine rulers of later generations which claimed descendancy from these first gods. Their language and cultural wealth of knowledge would and did become the means of transmission and origin of sacred knowledge from the remote past in the form of babylonian language and culture becoming exclusive to the ruling classes of the first civilizations and the empires and dynasties that emerged from there on.

In any event good job.

I like it.

Very interesting stuff.

I don't have time right now to read all your links, but saving for later.

I found some further information after reading your thread. It discusses the details behind the calculator tablets and how the math was thought to be computed.

Sumerian Circular Segment Coefficients and Calculator Demo Example

leolady

a reply to: tadaman

Yes really it's the Mathematics of The Fish People, including the 12 gated city that is otherwise known as the Abzu of Enki or Pegasus square...





The Place of Origin


a reply to: leolady

Thanks for that very interesting, and the same methodology among the Meso-Americans of course employed the same symbolism, this is a Mesopotamian equivalent of the Chakana;



So from the article you linked;

The subdivided square is called the quincunx diamond, which was also known among the ancient Chinese and Mayans. Quincunx means 5 portions, counting the center and 4 cardinal directions. Sometimes, the Mayans oriented the quincunx was oriented to the four points of the equinox(2) and the solitice(2). Among the Mayans, the 2 solar overhead or crossover points were sometimes added to include 7 points.

The key to understanding many of tbe Sumerian geometric coefficients and figures is the 16 square grid with the unit square and unit circle. Even some enigmatic figures turn out to be based on the 16 square grid. The complex knot design was found on the back of a clay tablet, perhaps as a decorative book cover. The freehand drawing contains many visual illusions. Some parts of the decorative knot overlay the 16 square grid, including the rope straight lines and turns.

And this approach going back to the early Neolithic in terms of the worlds first ever built brick wall and not surprisingly oldest ever mural;

a reply to: johnwick

My culture doesn't acknowledge "Sir" as a hereditary or given title.

She's a 'Ma'am'.

Interesting... again. A couple things stuck out for me... regarding the earlier math being more complex...

I remember a conversation with a friend who happens to be a top tier Sanskrit scholar, and he once mused about how the earliest scraps of ancient languages actually seem more complex, rather opposite of what one would expect.

We were discussing the likelihood of earlier, forgotten civilizations and this fact of earlier complexity, regarding the Hittite language if I remember, struck him as curious... the old "out of nowhere domesticated crops and farm animals" came up too... but the language reverse arc of complexity struck him as one of the best clues that we might have "de-evolved."

Add math to that list, then... and the big blanks before 6000 bp and how we sprang up with a fully formed urban system and there is some room to ponder, no?

Most ancient scholars would likely say about earlier, higher civilizations "no." But there are clues and it's not impossible.

Although Sitchen's interpretations are ... a tad too flexible (to be generous). Good thread... again.

a reply to: Baddogma

It's true ancient languages had far more characters and ways of expression than modern, and the same goes for measurement and accounting, it can be looked at two ways, that they were more capable of handling complex systems or that we have streamlined and improved upon the systems.

In Theology the case for me seems more clear cut, the Sumerians had a vastly superior religious system than anything at present, and even that was undergoing simplification and syncretism at least by the Akkadian period, Monotheism wasn't any sort of advancement it was simply giving up trying to understand and leaving it to some vague notion of 'God', everything just lumped together.

In many other areas things have almost died out, folk lore, the narrative of the constellations, herbalism, spiritualism and esoteric, craft skills, so perhaps people will generally end up knowing pretty much nothing and find it increasingly difficult to relate to anything...

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Baddogma

It's true ancient languages had far more characters and ways of expression than modern, and the same goes for measurement and accounting, it can be looked at two ways, that they were more capable of handling complex systems or that we have streamlined and improved upon the systems.

In Theology the case for me seems more clear cut, the Sumerians had a vastly superior religious system than anything at present, and even that was undergoing simplification and syncretism at least by the Akkadian period, Monotheism wasn't any sort of advancement it was simply giving up trying to understand and leaving it to some vague notion of 'God', everything just lumped together.

In many other areas things have almost died out, folk lore, the narrative of the constellations, herbalism, spiritualism and esoteric, craft skills, so perhaps people will generally end up knowing pretty much nothing and find it increasingly difficult to relate to anything...

I agree with this.. Indeed the phrase "when it is to simple it becomes complicated", will eventually apply. Yet in order to control, remove all complexity and supply a source of command and worship and you have a technological modern day..

Simple and efficient indeed, and also pre conceived. As far as the numerology affairs I think it was and still is the over exaggeration of trying to make something unknown understandable, and mystique as well, yet it indeed still remains unknown and opinionated as hell thousands of years later..

Also again, it is not what you do in life, it is what you do to be remembered in life..



Good thread op, I got to use my brain.

a reply to: Bicent76

Yes detachment from life toward the light, the rapidly diminishing perspective toward the singular vanishing point.

And people are still going to be surprised when they simply disappear...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

people will generally end up knowing pretty much nothing and find it increasingly difficult to relate to anything...

You have managed to sum up my essence very succinctly... and I fear I'm not alone.

What IF evolution isn't graphed on the unending upward curve? But it's odd... as we achieve more in the material sciences, the inner life of folks seem sparser... but it's relative and perhaps I'm simply surrounded by imbeciles where I am, and thus have a skewed sampling... of course it could be argued I'm a pot yelling at black kettles, too.

a reply to: Baddogma

It's the general trend people caught up in modern life can't help but be caught up in it and lose the basis of their humanity in terms of engagement with the natural world, everything just becomes an abstraction, the trick is passing through to the other side when the points converge...

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: Kantzveldt

...the Sumerian Goddess Nisaba was held to hold a Lapis Lazuli tablet upon which was the schematic of the Heavens, that through her observations of movements in time and space she could make predictive forecasts, that architectural formulations could reflect the greater pattern seen in the skies, but perhaps less well known that the scribal devotees' of Nisaba had a go at this themselves on their own tablets, the measurement of inter-stellar distances;

Hmmm...iridescent blue tablet eh? Could almost be a description of a blue screen on an electronic tablet, with an astronomy programme on it.

Or just as out of the box but even more simple a possibility...if that makes sense...in my opinion as a lifelong history obssessed polyglot, i say so much of the past is shrouded in mystery and riddle due to lack of vocabulary more often i bet than we think complicating such simple things, had they the lexicon to work with of the 21st century IF indeed there ever were beings with earthly orgins (inner earth, atlantis, under water, etc.) or ET that ever came in contact with man. Lapiz could have used as nothing more than a description of color and as this is Sumer still etching on tablets waiting for Johnny Paper to get his new invention out there, "tablet" could be naturally WHATEVER was the receiving medium of written word and tablet only taking on the connotation of a heavy hard bulky object after thousands of years influencing it. Imagine just in a hundred how "tablet" will be what people call computers now, the whole stone thing definition #3 or 4 in the dictionary then and "computer" as silly as when my grandpa would do his taxes with his casio solar powered "adding machine" and write a letter on his word processor lol. But honestly the lack of such simple inventions, simple words, and the "universe" often meaning our sun and its surroundings at times in the past can turn "she had a blue paper she carried around with a schematic of the solar system" into the myths and fantasies of today even if there was no intent to create fantasy. Works backwards too. Ship to us is any mode of transportation via water air or space and the verb even works if by car or foot. Go back in time and show the enterprise, the hindenderg, a saucer in flight and say "these are ships" and even da vinci who was sure air travel was days away would have u straight jacketed because til air travel was reality "ship" hadnt evolved into such an all inclusive word. It was a wooden water floater and thats it. I always wanted to make a post about so much that i have discovered that can be brought from myth or biblical nonsense to quite sensible and likely events by reassessing just one word which may not seem like much but heck, theres a few examples that i believe are not only so likely the fault of one single word being substituted for a word that best fit when vocab didnt exist yet for it but these few examples if true would rewrite history, shake the foundations of religions abrahamic, native american, aboriginal, hindu, and prove quite a bit of what we see as entertaining mythology is actually meant as historic anecdotes and finally I dont like the terminology "ancient aliens" but its almost laughable in this day and age to keep ignoring and laughing at the fact that over thousands and thousands of years on six continents, civilizations grew civilizations fell, culture changes nothing etc I cant find any people who recorded anything, passed down stories, had drama or any information relaying tech not a single people who DONT say beings much like humans but either technologically advanced, wielding magic powers, or who were gods came to the people of earth, were physical tangible beings, and tell us they did the same thing at each flippin place and each point in time. For every people who ever were to have chosen the skies as the orgin and they came bringing tech as nothing more than a crazy newly evolved social animal inventing nonsense about a man in the clouds to explain away what scared naked and cold shivering man couldnt, well id say the people of earth should ask one thing and one thing only if theres an alien disclosure coming and thats "Is there an intergallactic lottery and where can we get a ticket?" because oddly enough its the mathy sciency atheisty people who mock people who consider ancient visit possible yet they ignore the fact that all our ancestors documenting it every era every geographic location if looked at by any statistic scrutiny would be statistically impossible. My being a devout christian reinforces it. Just as i hate terminology like ancient alien, demon and angel has had too much attatched to the words but even my religion tells me these beings came down the bible calls fallen angels or demons in fact the person who scribed the oldest books deemed this interaction so central to everything past present and future of mankind he only goes a page or two before telling us and that tells me its important, its fact, and the apokrypha even say well lookie here, they will have star maps. I wont go further since it took me years to train myself to not allow a word to spark an image in my head when pondering christianity but extreme cross culture study while ignoring weight attached to words after so long while looking for real evidence is what turned me from atheist city into the god loving guy i am now when my whole introduction to ats was yrs ago when id look for religious ppl online just to laugh at how dumb they could be. And you dont have to be a polyglot to see its all over history. It truly bends and twists the mind heart and soul all over when you look at things like ancient god weapons- thors hammer, ra's ankh, kalis arrow, zeus thunderbolt, the ark of the covenant- if not the same thing very possibly connected and more interesting when reading story in Mahabgavida (totally botched that didnt i) of the nuclear war when clues followed lead us to a very ancient ruined city underwater a mile from mumbai just as book said where it looks and tests like a nuclear wasteland. The ark able to melt an enemy next to an unscathed friend and carried on poles to keep very far from carriers who, as well as all those who cared for it in the temple or anyone who came near it died of cancer. Yes the idea of sentient nuclear energy harnassed by man is crazy but its too crazy to be coincidence, i believe limited vocab is what gave us the puzzle we have now but i bet its much more simple than that. Like i said i have so much i think i figured out but this one is my current obssession. The most important tho may be the fall from grace story that exists everywhere since if we just knew what they meant could reveal ths meaning of life. U kno the fall, the cherokee boy stealing from the heavens, prometheus bringing fire from olympus, eating fruit of knowledge in heaven forcing new situation on earth. Anyway the moral of the story is i have found time and again that things are much simpler than alternative history theory explores often. Its just so hard when you have to realize were getting information from people who communicated their observations of light years ahead rocket science with hammer and chisel tech. Like if u take Icelandic 101 and as yr 1 final exam i asked "In Icelandic describe the mechanics of jet propulsion, time begins...now!"

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Well the only thing we known for certain is that the Tablet was understood as a lap-top device, because they always emphasized that it was placed on the knee when seated to consult and seek advice from.



But as well as this Nisaba recorded on tablet the deeds of everyone, and at the New year celebrations she would read from the tablet of life or destiny the more notable events and achievements of the year, she recorded everything.

The arts of Nisaba's house of wisdom; palace archivist of heaven and earth, who keeps count of every single assignment, who holds a holy reed-stylus and covers the great tablets of destiny with writing!

To the true woman who possesses exceeding wisdom, always consulting a tablet of lapis lazuli, giving advice to all lands, the true woman, Nisaba, knowing the inmost secrets of numbers.

a reply to: johnwick

Or like the reason a cell has to be so small, because the volume of a sphere or circle increases faster than its surface area. So to feed its volume it has to be small to have enough surface area?

But do we know how small a cell needs to be? There may be planet sized cells.

"Caulerpa is a unique organism," said Chitwood. "It's a member of the green algae, which are plants. Remarkably, it's a single cell that can grow to a length of six to twelve inches.

www.sciencedaily.com...

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat
Clearly you have done a lot of reading on these subjects and I agree with nearly all of what you say. I broke your text up a bit so I could read it better as my eyesight is not good for continued patterns, hope you don't mind and included in case anyone else needs also.

Or just as out of the box but even more simple of a possibility...if that makes sense...in my opinion as a lifelong history obsessed polyglot, I believe so much of the past is shrouded in mystery and riddle due to lack of vocabulary, more often I bet than we think, complicating such simple things. Had they the lexicon to work with of the 21st century, IF indeed there ever were beings with earthly origins (inner earth, atlantis, under water, etc.) or ET that ever came in contact with man.

Lapiz very well could have been used as nothing more than a description of color and as this is Sumer still etching on tablets waiting for Johnny Paper to get his new invention out there, "tablet" could be naturally WHATEVER was the receiving medium of written word and tablet only taking on the connotation of a heavy hard bulky object after thousands of years influencing it.

Imagine just in a hundred years how "tablet" will be what people call computers now, the whole stone thing definition #3 or 4 in the dictionary then a "computer" will seem as silly as when my grandpa would do his taxes with his casio solar powered "adding machine" and write a letter on his word processor lol. But honestly the lack of such simple inventions, simple words, and the "universe" often meaning our sun and its surroundings at times in the past, can turn "she had a blue paper she carried around with a schematic of the solar system" into the myths and fantasies of today, even if there was no intent to create fantasy.

Works backwards too. The word ship to us is any mode of transportation via water. air or space and the verb even works if meaning by car or foot. Go back in time and show the Enterprise, the Hindenburg, a saucer in flight. and say "these are ships" and even da Vinci who was sure air travel was days away, would have you straight jacketed because until air travel was reality "ship" hadn't evolved into such an all inclusive word. It was a wooden water floater and that's it.

I always wanted to make a post about so much that I have discovered that can be brought from myth or biblical nonsense to quite sensible and likely events by reassessing just one word which may not seem like much but heck, there's a few examples that I believe are not only so likely the fault of one single word being substituted for a word that would best fit when vocabulary didn't exist yet for it. These few examples if true, would rewrite history, shake the foundations of religions, abrahamic, native american, aboriginal, and hindu and prove quite a bit of what we see as entertaining mythology is actually meant as historic anecdotes.

Finally I don't like the terminology "ancient aliens" but it's almost laughable in this day and age to keep ignoring and laughing at the fact that over thousands and thousands of years on six continents, civilizations grew and civilizations fell, culture changes nothing etc. I can't find any people who recorded anything, passed down stories, had drama or any information relaying tech, not a single people who DON'T say beings much like humans, but either more technologically advanced or wielding magic powers, or who were gods, came to the people of earth. Who were physical tangible beings, and tell us they did the same things at each flippin place and each point in time.

For every people who were ever to have chosen the skies as their origin and they came bringing tech as nothing more than a crazy newly evolved social animal inventing nonsense about a man in the clouds to explain away what scared, naked and cold shivering man couldn't. Well I would say the people of the earth should ask one thing and one thing only, if there is an alien disclosure coming and that is, "Is there an intergalactic lottery and where can we get a ticket?," because oddly enough it's the mathy, sciency, atheisty people who mock those who consider ancient visits possible and yet they ignore the fact that all of our ancestors were documenting it every era, every geographic location. If looked at by any statistic scrutiny would be statistically impossible.

My being a devout Christian reinforces it. Just as I hate terminology like ancient alien, demon and angel that has had too much various meaning attached to the words. Even my religion tells me these beings came down as what the bible calls fallen angels or demons, and in fact the person who scribed the oldest books deemed this interaction so central to everything past present and future of mankind he only goes a page or two before telling us so. That tells me its important, that it is a fact, and the apocrypha even say, "well lookie here, they will have star maps".

I won't go any further since it took me years to train myself not to allow a word to spark an image in my head when pondering christianity but extreme cross culture study while ignoring weight attached to words after so long, while looking for real evidence, is what turned me from atheist city into the god loving guy I am now. My whole introduction to ATS was yrs ago when I would look for religious people online and I just had to laugh at how dumb they could be.

You don't have to be a polyglot to see it's all over history. It truly bends and twists the mind, heart and soul all over the place when you look at things like ancient god, weapons- Thors hammer, Ra's ankh, Kalis arrow, Zeus thunderbolt, the ark of the covenant- if not the same things very possibly connected and more interesting when reading the story in Mahabgavida (totally botched that didnt i) of the nuclear war. When clues followed leading us to a very ancient ruined city underwater a mile from Mumbai just as the book said, where it looks and tested like a nuclear wasteland.

The ark was able to melt an enemy next to an unscathed friend and was carried on poles to keep it very far from the carriers who as well as all of those who cared for it in the temple, or anyone who came near to it died of cancer. Yes the idea of sentient nuclear energy harnessed by man is crazy, but its simply too crazy to be all a coincidence.

I believe a limited vocabulary is what gave us the puzzle we have now, but I would bet it is much more simple than that. Like I said, I have so much I think about that I figured out, but this one is my current obsession. The most important thought may be about the fall from grace story that exists everywhere, if we just knew what they meant it could reveal the very meaning of life.

You know the fall, the Cherokee boy stealing from the heavens, Prometheus bringing fire from Olympus, eating the fruit of knowledge in heaven forcing a new situation on earth. Anyway the moral of the story is that I have found very often time and again that things are much simpler than alternative history theory explores. It's just so hard when you have to realize we are getting information from people who communicated their observations of light years ahead of rocket science with hammer and chisel technology. For instance if you take Icelandic 101 and as your 1 final exam you are asked, "In Icelandic describe the mechanics of jet propulsion, time begins...now!"

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

If it wasn't for Char-Lee, I wouldn't have even bothered with your seemingly run-on sentence... However because they refined your post, I had a chance to read a true gem. I had so many "Oh yeah" moments reading through your post. I don't know if you would, but I think it would help a lot of the borderline skeptics if you voiced that wisdom with sources, that have helped you through that transition from religious persecutor to a "God loving guy".

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Back on topic...

Have you read any of the Wes Penre Papers

He goes over a lot of the ancient Sumerian Gods and how it all plays into the grand scheme of "Universal Truth". It's one rabbit hole that I haven't dug into too much, just because the conclusions are so incredibly radical. I was just wondering if you might be able to shed some light, given your knowledge on this subject.

a reply to: Aedaeum

No i have to say i don't really appreciate his approach or interpretations, he just seems to be re-packaging the most stupid things he's read on the internet.