Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Not quiet understanding what you mean by that? This is about businesses selling PRODUCTS for everyone. What you see in store's windows you should be able to buy regardless of who you are.

But you want the government to step in and tell businesses they must engage in a private contract (that is what a sale is by the way) even if they don't wish to. I have already noted that it is silly for any business owner to not do so and if they wish to, then let them -- denying a portion of your potential base is destructive enough. Heck, you even pointed out that most businesses fail right?

But that what you are trying to support!

Again letting businesses do what they want and let them go out of businesses will not work.

You know damn well that I am not supporting that some assumed insinuation. I am advocating that allowing businesses to operate on their own and given our current cultural standing, no business in this nation, even if they are denying services, would last long.

Heck, even if they do...how is that affecting you? Other than your social warrior status?

a reply to: ownbestenemy

Other than your social warrior status?

LOL funny man.

Heck, even if they do...how is that affecting you?

Maybe because I am a deaf man? Maybe because I have friends that are in the minority? Silly of you to think it will not affect people.

I am advocating that allowing businesses to operate on their own and given our current cultural standing, no business in this nation, even if they are denying services, would last long.

You yourself have agreed with me that that will not work.

Your solution will be doomed to fail. That's the point!

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

Maybe because I am a deaf man? Maybe because I have friends that are in the minority? Silly of you to think it will not affect people

You act as you know I am not in the minority but that maybe I see it is asinine? I never said it wouldn't affect people -- all business in one way or another does. The cost-prohibitive practice of obtaining a maid is affecting a subset of people. Do you think the Government should step in and regulate all business should be available to all?

a reply to: ownbestenemy

You act as you know I am not in the minority

You're the one asking me how it is affecting me.

The cost-prohibitive practice of obtaining a maid is affecting a subset of people.

Now you are going off track (I assume you meant the poor people).

Do you think the Government should step in and regulate all business should be available to all?

Yes if they offer products to the public. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

If I engage in business, doesn't that imply that I offer products to the public? So I should show no discrimination in my practice in who I deal with? The application towards "poor" people is the same as against alternative lifestyles. I am discerning in whom I actually engage in my business practices.

If I want to sell pizza (or photographic services/bakery/mating services/etc) to any subset of groups, I should be able to on my own accord without the Government telling me I need to service all. If I want to sell just cakes to gay/lesibian/etc...would you have a problem with that?

What if that was the big story of today. That a "gay" bakery refused to service a "religious" couple their cake based on their beliefs?

In my world view: I say let them. It is their right to do so.

What is your view on that? Force the owner to engaging with a customer in which discriminates against them?

a reply to: ownbestenemy

If I want to sell just cakes to gay/lesibian/etc...would you have a problem with that?

Yep. Believe it or not the LGBT community would be outraged if that happens.

The application towards "poor" people is the same as against alternative lifestyles.

Nope not the same. Poor people can not afford certain products or services.

In my world view: I say let them. It is their right to do so.

Yeah it is your worldview and your belief. You have that right. The point is that what you are suggesting will never ever work.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Why would it never work? We have a hyperconnective society where instant knowledge on a place of business is reported to those around them. Again, we aren't in the 60's where word of mouth was local and wagons can circle instantly.

Any business that wants to survive today would know that it must service all. The VERY small subset of those who only carter to the small subset, would be relegated to their own little corner of the world without affecting anyone. Again; if I found out I was being denied services based on my standing in society, I would capitalize on that niche. Not seek out Governmental punishment as does many groups today -- gay/religious/race based/etc.

Eh. We aren't getting anywhere. You think I am some bigot and I think you are a Statist. So be it. I believe we can do business effectively without the Government stepping in and regulating our morality. You believe we need Government to step in and regulate that morality. We are of two different worlds.

I believe society can handle this; not a stupid law or the force of Government. We agree on the stupid law part but my guess is you would want to replace the law with an equally stupid law.

a reply to: ownbestenemy

Why would it never work? We have a hyperconnective society where instant knowledge on a place of business is reported to those around them.

You do realize that there are still many small towns and countries out there? Heck my mom have been using AOL dial-up for a while till a couple of years ago when she got cable internet.

Also don't forget about the Bible belts!

You think I am some bigot

Whoa whoa whoa wait a minute. I have never said that nor have I ever thought you were one.

originally posted by: Turkenstein
a reply to: Annee
Some of us have to work.
I am sure there are a lot of things you are unsure of and I understand exactly what you are trying to do. Your antagonistic abusive language has little of an effect on me, however it does expose you for the troll you seem to be.
You are the one that came up with the nasty vile examples which proves where your mind is. I can copy and paste if you need reminded of your expressed thoughts.

How does this relate to anything I've said?

Is English your first language? That is an honest question.

a reply to: ownbestenemy

I want every American citizen to be treated equitably under the laws of this country, as well as the State, County, and/or city they reside in.

That is all. I believe in the rule of law. If that makes me a "statist" or a "totalitarian" in your book, well, thank god I don't give a rat's behind what you think.

Oh, and in anticipation of your faux-outrage that I've "accused of something" you haven't done?

Go blow bubbles.

originally posted by: Turkenstein

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: xuenchen

If I did, I wouldn't be asking the question.

You seem confused and jilted.

No she is not confused.

You brought up a hypothetical question about Muslims which have nothing to do with this topic. Muslims have and will not ever do such thing.

It does have to do with this topic of religious freedom. Also, Muslims have proven when they are in the majority they will do anything to anyone under the guise of alla. Just ask the families of beheading victims.

Interesting fact though ... under the IRFRA ... those Muslims now have the same special rights as all other religions.

So, get ready to hear more from "Alla" and take care not to complain or comment because you will be minimizing their ever-expanding "rights to religion" and can bring you up on charges because you are limiting their exercises by your unfair critique.

... and maybe after that, listen to some "Abba."

I also posted this info in another thread here at ATS:

It seems that one of the O'Connors was also asked if they would impose their religious beliefs on couples that were remarrying after divorce ...

When asked about pizza for weddings with divorced couples, O’Connor paused.

“You know, that’s something that I don’t have figured out in my own mind yet,” he said. “Because I’m divorced. So that’s something I don’t have figured out.”

Indiana Pizza Parlour Won't Serve because: Jesus

Hmmmm ... but ... unlike "gay marriage" Jesus did have something to say about D-I-V-O-R-C-E:

3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Matthew 19: 3-6

Yeah.

originally posted by: ownbestenemy
a reply to: Deaf Alien

If I engage in business, doesn't that imply that I offer products to the public? So I should show no discrimination in my practice in who I deal with? The application towards "poor" people is the same as against alternative lifestyles. I am discerning in whom I actually engage in my business practices.

If I want to sell pizza (or photographic services/bakery/mating services/etc) to any subset of groups, I should be able to on my own accord without the Government telling me I need to service all. If I want to sell just cakes to gay/lesibian/etc...would you have a problem with that?

What if that was the big story of today. That a "gay" bakery refused to service a "religious" couple their cake based on their beliefs?

In my world view: I say let them. It is their right to do so.

What is your view on that? Force the owner to engaging with a customer in which discriminates against them?

The whole "public business" thing has always been a pet peeve of mine, as if putting out some good or service automatically creates "public" ownership of me and my property. Where was the public that now claim ownership of me and my property when I put my home up for collateral for a business loan? Where were they when I was working 80-100 hours a week to cover both my day job and my side business? Would they cover me and my debts if the business failed? It seems a lot of people want to claim ownership of something they are not responsible for.

Of course the whole point of starting a business was to make money and as such it is stupid to turn away paying customers, but I do get annoyed by this "the public owns you" mentality.

a reply to: windword

I was just reading that part of the post by Gryphon66 and then read your reply then I figure that the author of the bill is not only a liar but he soweth discord among brethren intentionally.

a reply to: marg6043

Yeah, but it was "okay", because he was lying for Jesus!

a reply to: Gryphon66

You are right, it should not be any laws or bills regarding the discrimination of or encouraging discrimination even when it comes shrouded within already established by the constitution rights to freedom of religion.

Also the 4th and 5th amendment protect individuals against discrimination by the Federal state and individual states, this along is base for Pence bill to be nullify.

Under the law,

Discrimination refers to the treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. Discrimination can be the effect of some law or established practice that confers privileges on a certain class or denies privileges to a certain class because of race, age, sex, nationality, religion, or handicap. Federal law, including Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, prohibits employment discrimination based on any one of those characteristics. Other federal statutes, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in voting rights, housing, credit extension, public education, and access to public facilities. State laws also provide further protection against discrimination.

definitions.uslegal.com...

As a nation we should be going forward no backwards in our laws.

a reply to: windword

Yes, dear old God and Jesus, how many wars has been soweth in thee names.

a reply to: marg6043

Absolutely! Thanks for adding additional facts to our information base here!

The Federal RFRA of 1993 has been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1997 (City of Boerne v. Flores.

Why are States scrambling to enact laws that are UNCONSTITUTIONAL?

What is this mess going to cost the American taxpayer?

It's literally mind-blowing.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Turkenstein
a reply to: Annee
Some of us have to work.
I am sure there are a lot of things you are unsure of and I understand exactly what you are trying to do. Your antagonistic abusive language has little of an effect on me, however it does expose you for the troll you seem to be.
You are the one that came up with the nasty vile examples which proves where your mind is. I can copy and paste if you need reminded of your expressed thoughts.

How does this relate to anything I've said?

Is English your first language? That is an honest question.

You can go back and look it up.
The only honesty in your question is the fact that it is "honestly" meant to be dismissive and a diversion from what you said. I refuse to entertain such a vile question as your first.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: marg6043

Absolutely! Thanks for adding additional facts to our information base here!

The Federal RFRA of 1993 has been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1997 (City of Boerne v. Flores.

Why are States scrambling to enact laws that are UNCONSTITUTIONAL?

What is this mess going to cost the American taxpayer?

It's literally mind-blowing.

It don't matter the cost as long as some people believed that the golden era when America was prosperous and everything seemed safe and secure, before all these rights were bequeathed to others and hence the reason for their shrinking pocket book and influence in America was at it's greatest when others were half free..Must get back to that era by all means, and for idiot black pastors and religious folks who think this will end with da gayz ,have another thing coming for what happen when they use the curse of Ham.. NOT THE GREASY MEAL to openly discriminate on their azzez on religious grounds.