Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

Blow back has began some companies are considering not doing business in Indiana, one rock band cancelled their appearance, another band member put the governor and leadership on blast ..It looks bad image wise.
Wilco exercises its religious freedom to not play in Indiana

Wilco just announced via Twitter that it has canceled an upcoming concert date in Indianapolis in protest of the state’s controversial new “religious freedom” law. In two tweets, the group stated, “We’re canceling our 5/7 show in Indianapolis. ‘Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act’ feels like thinly disguised legal discrimination... Hope to get back to the Hoosier State someday soon, when this odious measure is repealed. Refunds available at point of purchase.”

www.avclub.com... m_campaign=LinkPreview:1efault
Oooh this is gonna get expensiveeee!!!

a reply to: Annee

Thanks for that Annee - I hate cynicism

:-)

This is really scary. "Values Voter Summit".

Guess who has been a past speaker.

www.towleroad.com...

This is from 2010: Straw Vote: Conservatives Hand Mike Pence the Keys to the Car

abcnews.go.com...

It's going to be interesting to see what Arkansas now does, Faux News is getting in on it too with their random Tea Party talking heads calling this a "mob attack" on Christians and repeating the mantra that this law is the same as all the others...

I always knew that the US was a very divided country, but this month is going to show that even more, and it's increasingly divided along religious lines as well as racial and political.

What I really don't understand is how the Republican party thinks this is going to do them any good at all. The Democrats should be capitalizing on this right now and exposing all those who voted for these bills, those who have acted in their own selfish interests and against the interests of their states and populations.

Whatever happens in Indiana and Arkansas this week, I think it's pretty safe to say that the Republican party has done itself massive damage in the eyes of the public across the US. The gloves have come off, they've dropped their mask, the people now get to see how fanatical this party is and how dangerous these politicians are.

a reply to: Rocker2013

The problem I think is ... 30-35% of the American public is aligned, programmed, to be exactly in step with that "Republican party line," and what you (or I) see as fanatical is to them obvious, clear and truthful.

Notice the arguments in this thread from those on that side of the argument. These folks are clearly intelligent people ... who repeat the most inane, illogical memes over and over. It's like a recording.

Actually, it's very like a recording.

As you've pointed out, an idea moves through the collective right-wing media (notice the increased use of the word "coerce" for example, and pat argument that Indiana RFRA is "just like" the Federal RFRA) and becomes the standard cant or chant.

The argument that "both sides are the same" doesn't hold up in times like this. We've seen a number of different approaches, attitudes, ideas and ways of discussing the issue "from the left" and "from the middle."

But the right/Republican/reactionary side is almost uniform. They are approaching a kind of lock-step hive mentality.

... and whatever forces are running this "divide and conquer" program on the American people are succeeding beyond their wildest dreams.

80% of Americans are Christians.

Who are they being attacked by?

And what kind of cowards wouldn't take 4-to-1 odds, anyway?

Answer: There is no attack on Christians.

Stating that I don't agree with their beliefs, is not an attack.

Stating that I do not want to live according to their laws, is not an attack.

Stating that in this country we have separation of church and state, is not an attack.

Stating the truth about some Christians (that they're selfish and controlling) is not an attack on all Christians.

The illogical nail that is driven deep into the consciousness is that these people, who are OVERTLY attempting to exclude other American citizens from equal rights, are themselves whining about freedom.

That's a basic tactic of propaganda: repeat the irrational enough times so that it becomes accepted.

Once you get any group to believe an obvious lie ... they are at your disposal as a political unit of power.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
... and whatever forces are running this "divide and conquer" program on the American people are succeeding beyond their wildest dreams.

Interesting.
I don't think it's "run" by anyone, I just think it's a natural result of such an insane political division in a country. Politicians individually use the divide and conquer method to polarize the public in their favor, and both sides do it. All politicians point out the failures of their opponents and foster resentment as a result.

The only difference here, in my opinion, is that the Republicans are doing it to themselves.

I've long said that the Republican party will have no choice but to split into two. The people of the US have moved on from the religious moralistic crusading of the old party, they switch off, the youth are not falling for it, the country is increasingly moderate/agnostic in their beliefs and they are accepting of equality. The GOP has, for the most part, resolutely refused to modernize in response, which can only lead to a decline in support.

At the moment, with the passing of these laws and the backing from other senior GOP leaders, it looks like the Tea Party crowd has successfully taken control of much of the GOP. They're pushing out the moderate Republicans who know that the party cannot survive on this religious bent.

Ultimately this is a good thing, in the long run. These laws might be a pain the behind right now, but they are exposing the fact that the Tea Party has grabbed control of a lot of the GOP, and this is undoubtedly a far-right religious group.

I originally thought the more rational faction of the GOP would force out the Tea Party and become something more akin to our Conservatives in the UK (abandoning religious and moralistic preaching in favor of popular issues of economy etc) but it looks like the radicals have gained more control in the party rather than be pushed out. It will ultimately end in the same result though - three parties, the Dems, the Republicans and a right-wing party backed by the fundies, Nazis, hate groups and most extreme organizations in the US. Again, this would be a good thing for the Dems, because it would slit funding between two groups and diminish the power of both.

You will end up with a three-party system. The radicals will be in a powerless minority, the Republicans (or another form of it) will focus on economy, and the Dems will probably be the most powerful across the country as a result of the right splitting apart.

An intelligent Republican would be looking to start another party, one that works in the interests of the public, and one they can actually get behind. If one Republican started their own party tomorrow with a mandate to focus exclusively on border control, economy and national security, they could replace the GOP within a year.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Stating that I don't agree with their beliefs, is not an attack.
Stating that I do not want to live according to their laws, is not an attack.
Stating that in this country we have separation of church and state, is not an attack.
Stating the truth about some Christians (that they're selfish and controlling) is not an attack on all Christians.

The illogical nail that is driven deep into the consciousness is that these people, who are OVERTLY attempting to exclude other American citizens from equal rights, are themselves whining about freedom.

The problem with these people is that they think their right to be intolerant of others is a core aspect of their religion, so if you try to prevent them from being ignorant douche bags they claim that it's an "attack" on their "right" to be a douche.

We see it all the time from the right-wing, it's "freedom of opinion" for them to protest and rant against laws designed to give others equal rights, then they claim it's the "gay mafia" or "liberal conspiracy" for the left to protest in exactly the same way.

They demand that people be tolerant of their intolerance, which is of course complete nonsense. It's the kind of argument only the most addled and nonsensical brain can come up with as a response. Which again echoes the irrationality of organized religious delusion - you need to be mentally dubious in order to believe that nonsense to begin with.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I understand your position and I can't find any fault in it. For many years I argued for "people are just people" and about half of us support one side in any given question and half the other side.

It's natural, normal, based on group psychology, etc.

My opinion changed when I started encountering, about a decade ago, highly intelligent, successful people that I had known for years suddenly repeating this zombie-like chant on political issues. They're still perfectly reasonable people ... until you run up on one of those "issues" and then you tap into a well of ... irrational nonsense.

Despite my interest in conspiracies and cultural anomalies of all sorts ... I have ALWAYS argued against the presence of some hidden cabal in the shadows, subtly manipulating all areas of our lives from the dish soap we choose to who we vote for as President.

I still hold to that, for the most part, but ... sometimes, ya know ...

I just pick up on these highly formulated NLP-esque structures that are being propagated through what we call the "right-wing media."

They're designed. They're coming from somewhere or someone with intent.

INMO YMMV.

(PS, I enjoy your postings by the way! Keep them up! )

a reply to: Rocker2013

/nods

Regressives and reactionaries are just as "politically correct" as anyone.

Christianity is, pere et fils, a victim-based culture:

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Matthew 24:9

A victim mentality is fundamental in the group-psychology of Christians.

a reply to: flammadraco

That's funny, I live in southern GA, in my neck of the woods we got "reverse" racism, also my littler every corner church small town is a haven for gay business entrepreneurs, is been known and call underground gay haven.

Here even with all the churches and Christian people from the southern Baptist strong hold business are welcome regardless off who are the ones running them.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Despite my interest in conspiracies and cultural anomalies of all sorts ... I have ALWAYS argued against the presence of some hidden cabal in the shadows, subtly manipulating all areas of our lives from the dish soap we choose to who we vote for as President.

Oh I agree, and I am of a similar mind, the only difference is that I believe there are several vested interests at work on both sides of the coin. It's no secret that while the US was against Nazi Germany there were American corporations pushing for war, and selling to the Nazis. In the UK we had the Daily Mail backing the Nazi regime, until they miraculously abandoned support for that ideology when it became clear what the Nazis were really doing.

There are powerful people with their own interests in all avenues of politics, and I believe that's why some seem to think that there's one all-powerful cabal at the helm of it. I rationalize against that because all evidence shows that there's more than one vested interest, if there was one single cabal with an agenda then they would already be in power and the charade would be over.

Isn't this democracy in action? We can debate the validity of corporations having a vote, and the corruptibility of corporate money in government, but ultimately it all comes down the same thing - political ideologies competing with each other and individual interests (money, power and ego) benefiting from that political game.

If this farce in Indiana has shown us anything it's that such vested interests are quite happy to blatantly throw an entire population under the bus to further their ideological agenda.

a reply to: Annee

With everything going on right now with all the backlash that Pence law is causing the ones that were defending the law are going to make an about face, is all political nothing more and nothing else.

America is not a theocracy, having constitutional rights to freedom of religion doesn't equate to discrimination under Religious freedom.

I just had to post this - - speaking of how people think.

FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) — Gov. Steve Beshear's administration is arguing in a brief filed with the U.S. Supreme Court that Kentucky's ban on gay marriage isn't discriminatory because it bars both gay and straight people from same-sex unions.

news.yahoo.com...

a reply to: Annee

He, he, Annee, you can not describe more moronic words than that ones, still when it comes to gay marriage they are been debated by our supreme court that while some states can ban then for now, they know that it will no be for too long.

We do have nothing but morons running politics and making laws this days in the US.

a reply to: Annee

Lol that has got to be the dumbest reasoning I've ever seen in my life.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Annee

With everything going on right now with all the backlash that Pence law is causing the ones that were defending the law are going to make an about face, is all political nothing more and nothing else.

America is not a theocracy, having constitutional rights to freedom of religion doesn't equate to discrimination under Religious freedom.

I dunno. They're definitely trying their best to make it a Christian theocracy it seems.

These Right Wing Extremists believe allowing gays rights is part of the end times.

Politicians usually do whatever it takes to save their job, so do hope they about face.

a reply to: Annee

I can tell you right now, that when it comes to the real dangers of religious followers and that is with any religion the extremist are the most dangerous of all, is groups of religious followers that will do anything to bring the end of times even if it means by force.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Annee

He, he, Annee, you can not describe more moronic words than that ones, still when it comes to gay marriage they are been debated by our supreme court that while some states can ban then for now, they know that it will no be for too long.

We do have nothing but morons running politics and making laws this days in the US.

These Right Wing states know they've lost the Marriage Equality fight.

What they're doing is trying to make state laws to deny LGBT rights before the USSC makes a ruling.

a reply to: Annee

I agree, but that is all they can do, hopefully they will fail, I still don't get why banning same sex marriage has become such a crusade, is starting to look more like percussion than trying to use the religious card and Pence bill is prove of that.