Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

a reply to: Gryphon66

I am not sure that is even a relevant question though. Maybe clarify it a bit.

I am not advocating this law, but I still have yet to see the apocalyptic effects that people are proclaiming it will have.

a reply to: ownbestenemy

Input from the random gay in the Peanut Gallery:

You didn't say that the gay person in your example would be comfortable everywhere etc., you said in a "straight" establishment.

Why move the goalposts so obviously?

a reply to: ownbestenemy

Are you saying that gay people are perfectly comfortable in every establishment? All the time? Everywhere?

LOL are you for real? Well maybe you are right in some cases? For example would a gay man be comfortable at Westboro Baptist Church?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Question for the proponents of this Indiana law: how do you know that someone is living a life that your religion doesn't agree with?

It's an honest and real question, and if you don't want to give it some actual thought, please don't bother with some trivial quipping answer.

What is that question?

How many times is divorce mentioned in the bible compared to homosexual?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Maybe some businesses are concerned about flash-mobs disrupting the flow of commerce.

What if a group of Muslims wanted to make a point about a restaurant serving pork and alcohol?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Fair enough.

I've said what I had to say on the matter.

Respect is dead.

damn shame

a reply to: ownbestenemy

How is it not relevant?

The proponents here are saying that the religious beliefs of proprietors should be respected, and that this law allows said prorprietors to exclude those with whom doing business would be, in their mind, against their religion.

My question is, how would they know? I can go in and act straighter than most straight men. I can gather up their cakes that I will be serving at my homosexual/atheist orgy later that day ... how will the proprietor know that I am a) not an acceptable customer and b) what I may or may not do with their products that would offend their religious sensibilities?

Are shop-owners going to give out a quiz on recent sins committed to everyone who comes in the door? Or just the nelly/flamboyant ones?

Follow up ... what about when they refuse to serve what they think is an effeminate man who happens to be straight?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

You didn't say that the gay person in your example would be comfortable everywhere etc., you said in a "straight" establishment.

Why move the goalposts so obviously?

Would anyone feel comfortable anywhere?

Of course not.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ownbestenemy

Input from the random gay in the Peanut Gallery:

You didn't say that the gay person in your example would be comfortable everywhere etc., you said in a "straight" establishment.

Why move the goalposts so obviously?

Because I was questioned on the semantics. See my edit. I am not moving any goal post. It stands right where it should. I am stating that people will feel discriminated against no matter that "law". You cannot regulate nor legislate morality.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Gryphon66

Maybe some businesses are concerned about flash-mobs disrupting the flow of commerce.

What if a group of Muslims wanted to make a point about a restaurant serving pork and alcohol?

Do you have any examples of that?

a reply to: Annee

I do know that Jesus spoke out against divorce, and stated that in heaven, humans are like angels not cast in male and female forms ... and I know that He never mentioned homosexuals overtly.

I don't know the scorecard though.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ownbestenemy

Are you saying that gay people are perfectly comfortable in every establishment? All the time? Everywhere?

LOL are you for real? Well maybe you are right in some cases? For example would a gay man be comfortable at Westboro Baptist Church?

I wouldn't feel comfortable there....bad example and yes...I am for real. Not a bot.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Gryphon66

Maybe some businesses are concerned about flash-mobs disrupting the flow of commerce.

What if a group of Muslims wanted to make a point about a restaurant serving pork and alcohol?

With the new Indiana law in place, the Muslims would have a great case!

a reply to: ownbestenemy

No it is not a bad example. It was tongue-in-cheek reply to your silly post.

Why would any gay person be uncomfortable at gas stations, grocery stores, movie theaters, etc etc?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Ah -- you are speaking to the religious proponents of the law. That I cannot answer.

To the actual law though, I still haven't seen the claims made brought to light -- that it targets a group specifically -- that it denies gay/lesbian/etc -- that it allows people to discriminate.

It allows what has always been allowed -- to do business as you see fit.

Logical Question:
If we move this along and start applying discrimination to say, income or "class status". Would it not follow that we should force businesses that provide "public accommodation" to accept those who cannot pay as customers?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Uh cause those are notably never discriminatory. Just as a straight person wouldn't feel uncomfortable at those. Typically those are impersonal operations unless you live in a small -- small town.

a reply to: ownbestenemy

Okay ... so you edited. I'm gay and I've been in establishments owned by people of (I'm assuming here) all sexual orientations and proclivities and I've never felt uncomfortable based on that knowledge, or as should be obvious in most cases, an absolute ignorance of what the owners do in their lifestyle, romantic interests, sex interests, etc.

I'm only one voice, but ... what you're saying makes no sense from a real world perspective, unless you have testimony from other gay folk that you're not elucidating.

a reply to: ownbestenemy

The fact that you think we should live in some non-discriminatory bubble where we all get along and everything is okay makes to understand where you are coming from. Here is the kicker though. I saw this discrimination listed above, but in a large majority of the cases, we didn't need a law to correct it. Didn't need Government to step in like some daddy-figure to tell us what to do and what not to do. We worked as a society, as a community.

That's kinda arrogant to to assume you know how and what I think. And when have we worked as a society or a community.
I'm for limited government as well but not at the expense of racism, discrimination and bigotry displayed in Indiana and many other states...especially on BS religious grounds.

And assuming to know my thought processes doesn't help with your credibility either!

a reply to: ownbestenemy

Well if we are talking about straight and gay bars then maybe. Some would be uncomfortable there obviously. Some wouldn't. I've been to gay bars with my friends and I have never felt uncomfortable.

a reply to: ownbestenemy


What's a "straight" business? What's a "gay" business?

I am stating that people will feel discriminated against no matter that "law".

And Christians will always claim persecution no matter the law. But there should be no need for a law to legalize either.