Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

originally posted by: ownbestenemy
a reply to: beezzer

Agreed -- why I said the State shouldn't even have to be stepping in -- an individual should have the right to determine who they engage in contract with; regardless if they are a "public accommodation" -- just as much as an individual has the right to determine they don't wish to engage in a contract with such people.

I always saw these as interesting -- a market niche to serve exclusively to the LGBT crowd. Seems like a good business right now no?

If I were an entrepeneur, I'd being "catering" to the LGBT community exclusively.

originally posted by: ownbestenemy
a reply to: Annee

If no one challenged it (which is there an actual legal challenge in the works? Or just public opinion?), then the People really have no leg to stand on regarding the outcome (intended or unintended).

I am not wasting my time anymore on people who can't/refuse to understand this government is secular.

Public businesses are regulated by a secular government.

You don't like it - - - don't have a public business.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Annee

Why not respect someone's religious beliefs?

Religion is a personal choice.

Keep it personal.

So it is okay NOT to respect someone's religious beliefs?

a reply to: Turkenstein

Thanks for the unsolicited debate advice there, coach!

I'll start listening when you say something relevant. Or on topic.

In the meantime, apparently you're going continue to try to compensate for the lack of content in your posts by making what I'm sure you think are cunning digs at me personally. Whatever. Enjoy it.

As to your last, you're interested in the intricacies of gay relationships because you live in Indiana?

Oooookay.

(You've received a "less than hospitable tone" from me because you came out of the gate trying to be snide. Your posts belie any ability to be sarcastic with anything faintly resembling panache. Your posts just come off ... flinty and crude. Frankly, your no-content posts are becoming boring. Have fun in the discussion! /shrug)

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ownbestenemy
a reply to: beezzer

Agreed -- why I said the State shouldn't even have to be stepping in -- an individual should have the right to determine who they engage in contract with; regardless if they are a "public accommodation" -- just as much as an individual has the right to determine they don't wish to engage in a contract with such people.

I always saw these as interesting -- a market niche to serve exclusively to the LGBT crowd. Seems like a good business right now no?

If I were an entrepeneur, I'd being "catering" to the LGBT community exclusively.

But wait -- wouldn't that be discriminating against those outside of the LGBT community if you are exclusively catering to them? All puns aside --

I mean, if I were to flip through the yellow pages and see an ad that states "Serving the LGBT community" I might feel discriminated against and thus denied service before it was even sought because of the ad itself.

a reply to: Annee

You do understand that I believe in a secular Government no? I hold the same beliefs as the Founding Fathers. I am a deist at heart, but when it comes to Government and its APPLICATION, it is secular.

Just because you are having a hard time with someone challenging your beliefs and your viewpoint, don't leave. Engage and we might find some common ground. Or take your third place trophy and be happy. I don't care either. I am done too.

See I can take my ball and go home too.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: beezzer
20 pages.

Hmmph.

You know, we wouldn't need laws like this if people simply respected others religious convictions.

If this Indiana bill goes thru; you could very well suffer the brunt of this discrimination...I't won't be limited to Gay people!

Therein lies the crux.

if people weren't going to respect me before the law, why would it change?

Does that mean you are ok with discriminating against LGBT folks using religion as the reason; that's the real crux of the matter.

Lets turn it around.

Are you okay with LGBT people disrespecting people's religious beliefs?

Tell me how a gay person wanting to buy a piece of cheese or some slimjims is disrespecting a religious business...they can be discriminated against just because of who they are.... Didn't we go thru this with Black people once? Does it even matter to you?

originally posted by: Annee
You don't like it - - - don't have a public business.

Define "public business"....

Since to engage in business, I must make myself public, in order to obtain clientel, wouldn't that make all business "public"?

Or is it just cake, photography and wedding services....possibly "mating" services too...

Just trying to understand where you are coming from Annee.

originally posted by: ownbestenemy

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ownbestenemy
a reply to: beezzer

Agreed -- why I said the State shouldn't even have to be stepping in -- an individual should have the right to determine who they engage in contract with; regardless if they are a "public accommodation" -- just as much as an individual has the right to determine they don't wish to engage in a contract with such people.

I always saw these as interesting -- a market niche to serve exclusively to the LGBT crowd. Seems like a good business right now no?

If I were an entrepeneur, I'd being "catering" to the LGBT community exclusively.

But wait -- wouldn't that be discriminating against those outside of the LGBT community if you are exclusively catering to them? All puns aside --

I mean, if I were to flip through the yellow pages and see an ad that states "Serving the LGBT community" I might feel discriminated against and thus denied service before it was even sought because of the ad itself.

Stores discriminate all the time.

They close at hours that make it unavailable for people working different shifts to shop.

They say, "No shoes, no shirt, no service".

They say you can't carry firearms.

They say children MUST be accompanied by an adult.

They say they won't take bills larger than a 20.


I discriminate against vegan restaurants when I go out and eat because I want a steak.

Discrimination happens all the time.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Rocker2013

Whatever happened to respect?

I may not agree with your ideology or beliefs, but I can still respect your wishes.

Respect goes both ways, yes?
And in instances where it doesn't, there should be laws to prevent people from abusing their so-called "religious beliefs" to abuse others.

Your right to have religious views DOES NOT trump another persons right to be treated with equal respect. Whether you accept it or not, there are a hell of a lot of religious nutters who have absolutely no desire to respect others and treat them with decency.

When I walk into a business I don't give a damn if that person is a Christian, they should not give a damn whether I am gay. Their religion is none of my business, who I sleep with is none of theirs. Provide a service or product, but keep your cult out of it.

Respect is about respecting differences too. These "Christians" clearly do not respect others in the way they demand to be respected.

a reply to: beezzer

Just to be clear here Beezer....we both think this law is a joke of a law right? That it really has no place in a free society?

a reply to: beezzer

And none of what you list there is remotely related to a core aspect of a persons identity and being.

I asked this of another poster with similar views, but I'll ask it again here...

Do you agree that a business has the right to put "no black people" in their window, yes or no?

a reply to: olaru12

It matter quite a bit.

I think you overlooked me saying that this bill will fail because you cannot legislate respect.

This is just a small facet of a larger problem we are witnessing in society, in my humble opinion.

If we cannot respect everyone now, what makes a "law" anymore effective?

originally posted by: Rocker2013
Respect is about respecting differences too. These "Christians" clearly do not respect others in the way they demand to be respected.

Are you implying that only "Christians" are doing the discriminating? That there are not instances of nuanced discrimination from basically all sides of the coin in life?

originally posted by: ownbestenemy
a reply to: Annee

You do understand that I believe in a secular Government no? I hold the same beliefs as the Founding Fathers. I am a deist at heart, but when it comes to Government and its APPLICATION, it is secular.

Just because you are having a hard time with someone challenging your beliefs and your viewpoint, don't leave. Engage and we might find some common ground. Or take your third place trophy and be happy. I don't care either. I am done too.

See I can take my ball and go home too.

I'm atheist. But, that has nothing to do with anything.

This has to do with discrimination - - - you know, not providing the service of your business to a paying customer.

My mom was a polio victim in the 1952 epidemic. As a child I experienced her being refused service by a variety of businesses. Can't serve a disabled person if it makes other customers uncomfortable. Can't allow a disabled person that might slip and fall.

So what ever your bigotry is - - if you own a business - - keep it to yourself and serve your customer.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Is the Christian community being respected by the LGBT community?

originally posted by: ownbestenemy
a reply to: beezzer

Just to be clear here Beezer....we both think this law is a joke of a law right? That it really has no place in a free society?

Agreed. I'm saddened that it had to come to this.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: olaru12



If we cannot respect everyone now, what makes a "law" anymore effective?

Well obviously we can't respect everyone or this BS dumbass law would never have been drafted.

Careful when traveling thru Indiana, amigo!

originally posted by: ownbestenemy

originally posted by: Rocker2013
Respect is about respecting differences too. These "Christians" clearly do not respect others in the way they demand to be respected.

Are you implying that only "Christians" are doing the discriminating?

In this instance, in the USA, where Republicans and Christians have done everything in their power to prevent equality, yes.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Rocker2013

Is the Christian community being respected by the LGBT community?

I'm sure an LGBT bakery won't have any problem baking them a wedding cake.