California 'Shoot the gays' initiative likely to be circulated

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
This is why I much prefer U.K freedom of speech to the U.S. freedom of speech...

Inciting hatred should always be illegal.


No ones freedom of speech is under threat when these things are illegal...

I disagree, since the definition of "hatred" is defined by the current people that are in charge. You may prefer the UK system now, but, would you prefer it if your views were labeled as hate?

This isn't just some dude getting a petition passed around, he's trying to make being gay illegal & punishable by death.

Everyone arguing for free speech right now is a moron.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: beezzer

maybe so but how does this not equate to hate speech?

Granted it will go no where, but the guy is also advocating for the death of an entire group of people,I have to think even with freedom of speech some law was violated

Like you im all about our rights,but this pretty bad lol

Certainly it is hate speech. However, should "hate speech" be illegal and, if so, who gets to define it?

How about who the hatred is directed against?
they have the experience and perhaps even the scars as credentials!

I see the article was from San Francisco, not sure if this is where the guy is from, obviously enacting a law where it's 'duck season' on gays is way over the line. And all the attention it's getting, makes me wonder if it's intended to create a backlash against Christians. Which I see has been successful.

But if he is in San Francisco though.... We'll see, maybe he was being inflammatory to get attention so he could draw attention to the Folsom Street Fair.... Sounds so nice doesn't it? I just heard about it a few months ago, and apparently it's shown on the news as a 'how wonderful' story. So I was shocked to say the least when I saw this.

I don't agree with executing people at all period (well except for child rapists aka pedophiles) I can, understand the anger after finding out children are brought to this 'fair', and had it not been for the internet, I never would have known this was going on, the people that take children there should be charged with neglect at the very least imo. Warning, it's very graphic!

Two-year-olds Zola and Veronica Kruschel waddled through Folsom Street Fair amidst strangers in fishnets and leather crotch pouches, semi and fully nude men.

The twin girls who were also dressed for the event wore identical lace blouses, floral bonnets and black leather collars purchased from a pet store.

Fathers Gary Beuschel and John Kruse watched over them closely. They were proud to show the twins off.

“They will see more than the kids with moms and dads in Iowa,” said Beuschel, who wanted to expose his children to San Francisco's diverse community. “Every parent has to decide for themselves what is right for them. And I respect that. And we decided that this is right for our children.”

Beuschel and his girls were at the 22nd Folsom Street Fair, an annual leather event in San Francisco's South of Market district, which showcased outrageous costumes, fetish attire, and a community obsessed with bondage, whipping, and spanking.

article link xpress.sfsu.edu...

Hmmm, But now I'm questioning whether I should even post the link from the guy who attended and took pictures here? If you search for zombietime folsom you'll find it, but don't say I didn't warn you. Also those pics are from 2007 so who knows if it's worse or 'better' by now.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Is it? I've never seen that logic from a Muslim before. I usually see that logic from other Christians saying these people aren't really Christians so they can shirk Christian responsibility for a Christian behaving badly.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Those are just two examples from the same thread on the same day here on ATS.
Do you live with blinders on or something?

The idea that something pro Islamic is planted to stir up anti Islamic sentiment is a main staple of logic used all the time to brush off obvious pro Islamic agendas.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
This isn't just some dude getting a petition passed around, he's trying to make being gay illegal & punishable by death.

Everyone arguing for free speech right now is a moron.

JE SUIS CHARLIE!

But technically I don't think what this guy is doing is really considered free speech or inciting hatred. He's trying to eventually get a law passed that makes sodomy a capital offense.

"Shoot the Gays" is what the media is saying.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

But neither of those two people are Muslims. You originally said this:

Maybe he really hates Christians and did it for a way to get more people to hate Christians.
That is the number one logic Muslims are using whenever a Muslim tries pushing their crap down peoples throats.

So if you are going to give me examples, it behooves you to follow the template that YOU laid down originally.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

But neither of those two people are Muslims. You originally said this:

Maybe he really hates Christians and did it for a way to get more people to hate Christians.
That is the number one logic Muslims are using whenever a Muslim tries pushing their crap down peoples throats.

So if you are going to give me examples, it behooves you to follow the template that YOU laid down originally.

Muslim or pro Muslim, same thing. The logic used is the argument I made.

originally posted by: Rhiannon

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
This isn't just some dude getting a petition passed around, he's trying to make being gay illegal & punishable by death.

Everyone arguing for free speech right now is a moron.

JE SUIS CHARLIE!

But technically I don't think what this guy is doing is really considered free speech or inciting hatred. He's trying to eventually get a law passed that makes sodomy a capital offense.

"Shoot the Gays" is what the media is saying.

This is from the OP:::

it would require that anyone who touches a person of the same gender for sexual gratification be put to death by “bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.”

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: NavyDoc

If you say you wanna kick someone's arse that's between you and them and will amount to nothing unless someone presses charges.

If you say someone should kick someone else's arse at a gathering of likeminded but actually willing people you're inciting hatred...

Y'know this is getting ridiculous. People are responsible for their own actions period. REGARDLESS of me or anyone else saying I HATE ..... I want to kick a God-damned crybabies ass!

*disclaimer, I said I, and by saying I, I am in no way trying to imply, manipulate, or express any opinion, thought, or use free will that I think was given to me by some Creator, but regardless of where it came from, I know we all have free will, so that means you have free will, so if I say I hate someone or want to kick someone of a specific groups ass, not that I'm trying to categorize all people that feel a certain way, into one category because of course that would be racist, or bigoted or something bad I'm sure, so please remember, that if and when I dare to express myself outloud in front of other people who may or may not agree with me, well that's a big deal in itself....

OH F%$* IT... I HATE CRYBABIES! nyah nyah

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Is it? I've never seen that logic from a Muslim before. I usually see that logic from other Christians saying these people aren't really Christians so they can shirk Christian responsibility for a Christian behaving badly.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Those are just two examples from the same thread on the same day here on ATS.
Do you live with blinders on or something?

The idea that something pro Islamic is planted to stir up anti Islamic sentiment is a main staple of logic used all the time to brush off obvious pro Islamic agendas.

First I'm not Muslim and second America isn't a Christian nation. What I posted is the truth you have media outlets like FOX that promote islamophobia to reassure the masses that it's ok to invade and kill people because their religion is bad. As the school stated they have taught about other religions but nobody whined they are turning them into Buddhist or Hindus but when it comes to teaching kids about Islam then they are trying to make them Muslims. It becomes more and more apparent that the dumbing down of America is working quite well and now that it has taken effect then it's time to shove the pro Christian agenda down everyone throats.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: Rhiannon

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
This isn't just some dude getting a petition passed around, he's trying to make being gay illegal & punishable by death.

Everyone arguing for free speech right now is a moron.

JE SUIS CHARLIE!

But technically I don't think what this guy is doing is really considered free speech or inciting hatred. He's trying to eventually get a law passed that makes sodomy a capital offense.

"Shoot the Gays" is what the media is saying.

This is from the OP:::

it would require that anyone who touches a person of the same gender for sexual gratification be put to death by “bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.”

Yeah I read it, but he's not standing on the corner with a sign, or writing a column. He's trying to pass a law. Technically that's not a Free Speech issue.

The media using "Shoot the gays" is a free speech issue.

Just being obnoxiously detailed and literal like the boxheads usually are. See I can play that game, but as I find it obnoxious I usually don't.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

But neither of those two people are Muslims. You originally said this:

Maybe he really hates Christians and did it for a way to get more people to hate Christians.
That is the number one logic Muslims are using whenever a Muslim tries pushing their crap down peoples throats.

So if you are going to give me examples, it behooves you to follow the template that YOU laid down originally.

Muslim or pro Muslim, same thing. The logic used is the argument I made.

LOL no it isn't one is a follower of the faith the other isn't a follower of the faith but supports the rights of those that do follow that faith. You really shouldn't be using the word logic because you apparently don't understand the meaning of the word.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Is it? I've never seen that logic from a Muslim before. I usually see that logic from other Christians saying these people aren't really Christians so they can shirk Christian responsibility for a Christian behaving badly.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Those are just two examples from the same thread on the same day here on ATS.
Do you live with blinders on or something?

The idea that something pro Islamic is planted to stir up anti Islamic sentiment is a main staple of logic used all the time to brush off obvious pro Islamic agendas.

First I'm not Muslim and second America isn't a Christian nation. What I posted is the truth you have media outlets like FOX that promote islamophobia to reassure the masses that it's ok to invade and kill people because their religion is bad. As the school stated they have taught about other religions but nobody whined they are turning them into Buddhist or Hindus but when it comes to teaching kids about Islam then they are trying to make them Muslims. It becomes more and more apparent that the dumbing down of America is working quite well and now that it has taken effect then it's time to shove the pro Christian agenda down everyone throats.

Exhibit C above ^

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

But neither of those two people are Muslims. You originally said this:

Maybe he really hates Christians and did it for a way to get more people to hate Christians.
That is the number one logic Muslims are using whenever a Muslim tries pushing their crap down peoples throats.

So if you are going to give me examples, it behooves you to follow the template that YOU laid down originally.

Muslim or pro Muslim, same thing. The logic used is the argument I made.

LOL no it isn't one is a follower of the faith the other isn't a follower of the faith but supports the rights of those that do follow that faith. You really shouldn't be using the word logic because you apparently don't understand the meaning of the word.

My argument is the logic used, you want to focus on the word Muslim avoiding the topic all together. Transparent deflection will get you nowhere.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

They aren't the same thing at all and you are being intellectually dishonest by trying to suggest they are.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Is it? I've never seen that logic from a Muslim before. I usually see that logic from other Christians saying these people aren't really Christians so they can shirk Christian responsibility for a Christian behaving badly.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Those are just two examples from the same thread on the same day here on ATS.
Do you live with blinders on or something?

The idea that something pro Islamic is planted to stir up anti Islamic sentiment is a main staple of logic used all the time to brush off obvious pro Islamic agendas.

First I'm not Muslim and second America isn't a Christian nation. What I posted is the truth you have media outlets like FOX that promote islamophobia to reassure the masses that it's ok to invade and kill people because their religion is bad. As the school stated they have taught about other religions but nobody whined they are turning them into Buddhist or Hindus but when it comes to teaching kids about Islam then they are trying to make them Muslims. It becomes more and more apparent that the dumbing down of America is working quite well and now that it has taken effect then it's time to shove the pro Christian agenda down everyone throats.

Although I do agree with you re: islamaphobia, you are wrong when you say that 'the dumbing down of America is in order to push the pro-Christian agenda'.

America may not be a 'Christian Nation' anymore, but it most certainly was founded on those principles. The dumbing down of America is so that, the people that came here to BE AMERICAN, forget what that means.

Freedom of Speech
Right to Bear Arms
Freedom of Religion INCLUDING CHRISTIANITY ffs
etc......

Anyone who identifies themselves as a 'hyphen American' or as a religion-first, should imo be sent back to the country in front of the hyphen, or to where their religion is the majority. America has been watered down and being destroyed from within. Or trying to be anyway... God forbid should whites have a fair being proud to be white.

originally posted by: Rhiannon

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: Rhiannon

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
This isn't just some dude getting a petition passed around, he's trying to make being gay illegal & punishable by death.

Everyone arguing for free speech right now is a moron.

JE SUIS CHARLIE!

But technically I don't think what this guy is doing is really considered free speech or inciting hatred. He's trying to eventually get a law passed that makes sodomy a capital offense.

"Shoot the Gays" is what the media is saying.

This is from the OP:::

it would require that anyone who touches a person of the same gender for sexual gratification be put to death by “bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.”

Yeah I read it, but he's not standing on the corner with a sign, or writing a column. He's trying to pass a law. Technically that's not a Free Speech issue.

The media using "Shoot the gays" is a free speech issue.

Just being obnoxiously detailed and literal like the boxheads usually are. See I can play that game, but as I find it obnoxious I usually don't.

So people should have the right to try & get laws passed that promote hate & death because the act itself doesn't violate free speech?
I think I understand the semantics of what you're saying, but I still don't agree.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: beezzer

maybe so but how does this not equate to hate speech?

Granted it will go no where, but the guy is also advocating for the death of an entire group of people,I have to think even with freedom of speech some law was violated

Like you im all about our rights,but this pretty bad lol

Certainly it is hate speech. However, should "hate speech" be illegal and, if so, who gets to define it?

How about who the hatred is directed against?
they have the experience and perhaps even the scars as credentials!

So only certain groups get to define the speech of their detractors? I'd suggest that would result in just as much discrimination and loss of free speech as the bad guys want.

Because the freedom of speech is so damned important, we really should not be seeking more and more laws to ban speech we find offensive, but rather shining the light of disgust on it and exposing it for what it is. Remember, if you give the state the power to ban speech you find offensive, you give the state the power to ban your speech if someone else finds it offensive. The answer is more freedom and more speech, not less.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: Rhiannon

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: Rhiannon

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
This isn't just some dude getting a petition passed around, he's trying to make being gay illegal & punishable by death.

Everyone arguing for free speech right now is a moron.

JE SUIS CHARLIE!

But technically I don't think what this guy is doing is really considered free speech or inciting hatred. He's trying to eventually get a law passed that makes sodomy a capital offense.

"Shoot the Gays" is what the media is saying.

This is from the OP:::

it would require that anyone who touches a person of the same gender for sexual gratification be put to death by “bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.”

Yeah I read it, but he's not standing on the corner with a sign, or writing a column. He's trying to pass a law. Technically that's not a Free Speech issue.

The media using "Shoot the gays" is a free speech issue.

Just being obnoxiously detailed and literal like the boxheads usually are. See I can play that game, but as I find it obnoxious I usually don't.

So people should have the right to try & get laws passed that promote hate & death because the act itself doesn't violate free speech?
I think I understand the semantics of what you're saying, but I still don't agree.

Actually I was kind-of... (well strike kind-of) being a smart-ass to illustrate how idiotic IMO some people get in tearing down arguments due to semantics because 'some' people are so literal, but nm lol