California 'Shoot the gays' initiative likely to be circulated

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: NavyDoc

No I didn't say I want speech I don't like illegal...


People can say what they want...

I'm specifically taking about inciting hatred with a view to violent oppression.



If you already have those laws, then the premise of this "shoot the gays" initiative shouldn't even be allowed to be petitioned should it not?

Unless the law doesn't apply to such, in which case I refer you back to every post I've made so far on that specific topic.

Why shouldn't a guy be allowed to try to circulate a stupid petition? That's what a free society means, that any citizen can voice an opinion and circulate petitions.

I'm all for stupid petitions....but calling for other citizens deaths goes way beyond stupid. That's not an opinion, that's calling for direct action. I don't much care for "kill whitey" either.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Christians, this is why we don't like your religion anymore. People like this give you guys a bad name.

If this nut wants this law in action, he should just move to Iraq. I hear ISIS would be a good fit for such ideology. Oh wait, he probably hates Muslims too...

Maybe he really hates Christians and did it for a way to get more people to hate Christians.
That is the number one logic Muslims are using whenever a Muslim tries pushing their crap down peoples throats.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well for one, I'm on here speaking out against it.

Since he's in California and I'm in the Midwest with a several hundred miles separating us, it's going to be hard for me to do much else especially as I have to go to work here in an hour or so.

Oh? I never see the span of distance consideration given to Muslims. The way it usually goes down, moderate Muslims are at fault for not dropping everything and going out and protesting terrorism or trying to fight against it even if they live half-way around the world. Glad to see the double standard here.

I could also point out that he's out with a petition trying to get 350,000 signatures and might have trouble in a land where there is a still a 70% identification of Christian in the populace. If this were really the popular position among Christians ... wouldn't he have his signatures? Heck, why would he even need his petition if this were really the popular position among Christians?

Let's be clear here, I understand all of these points and my entire approach here is rhetorical. Your points are certainly valid, but I am trying to get you to see the double standard you are applying to crazy Christians while using this argument against moderate Muslims not speaking out against the fundamentalists.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: NavyDoc

No I didn't say I want speech I don't like illegal...


People can say what they want...

I'm specifically taking about inciting hatred with a view to violent oppression.



If you already have those laws, then the premise of this "shoot the gays" initiative shouldn't even be allowed to be petitioned should it not?

Unless the law doesn't apply to such, in which case I refer you back to every post I've made so far on that specific topic.

Why shouldn't a guy be allowed to try to circulate a stupid petition? That's what a free society means, that any citizen can voice an opinion and circulate petitions.

I'm all for stupid petitions....but calling for other citizens deaths goes way beyond stupid. That's not an opinion, that's calling for direct action. I don't much care for "kill whitey" either.

But is it "direct action?" The very reason why we have rather strict definitions of actionable words is because we want to preserve the freedom of speech.

If he was passing up a signup sheet to join a gay killing posse, certainly that would be direct, concrete, and actionable.

However, he is presenting a petition to have a law put up for a vote. As nasty as the law he wants is, it is still political speech and should be protected. Not saying he can't be made fun of, criticized, shunned, ignored, shouted down by other citizens, but just not arrested for putting up a political petition.

I know it will go nowhere, in all likelyhood he knows it won't get anywhere, and most likely this is a stunt to get attention and to make some sort of asinine point.

a reply to: ketsuko

Better re-read the New Testatment because again you will see that the references to homosexuality are lumped-in with adultery, idolatry and other alleged 'sins'. The meaning of these passages has been long debated. And the Catholic teaching that the Old Rules were superseded by the New Rules is a matter of interpretation. That any of it is truly 'divine' and not the agenda of men is a huge stretch IMHO and that of many, far more well-heeled people.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Is it? I've never seen that logic from a Muslim before. I usually see that logic from other Christians saying these people aren't really Christians so they can shirk Christian responsibility for a Christian behaving badly.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Christians, this is why we don't like your religion anymore. People like this give you guys a bad name.

If this nut wants this law in action, he should just move to Iraq. I hear ISIS would be a good fit for such ideology. Oh wait, he probably hates Muslims too...

Maybe he really hates Christians and did it for a way to get more people to hate Christians.
That is the number one logic Muslims are using whenever a Muslim tries pushing their crap down peoples throats.

That's a BS defense. I've certainly never seen a Muslim relying on this type of BS defense, either.

McLaughlin in a straight-up Fundamental fascist. He is like his extremist Taliban/ISIS counterparts. They are all part and parcel of the same hardcore religious zealotry. The only difference is that McLaughlin lives in a much more civilized nation that would never tolerate someone like him taking direct action on their beliefs, hopefully he has had it drubbed into his head that there would be consequences. I say hopefully, because some people like him DO act on their hateful beliefs in this country. His initiative is just him acting out his fantasy of shooting gay people.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Christians, this is why we don't like your religion anymore. People like this give you guys a bad name.

If this nut wants this law in action, he should just move to Iraq. I hear ISIS would be a good fit for such ideology. Oh wait, he probably hates Muslims too...

meanwhile actual religious zealots by the thousands are out there all over the world beheading gays and throwing them of of buildings

And people chose to ignore, downplay,or dismiss it (its not our country or our rules seems to be a good line)

Though I agree this guy is should be locked away for hate speech , spare the the false outrage grouping all Christians together while people like you beat us over the head telling us how we shouldnt lump all Muslims together for the actions of ISIS

Again throw this guy in jail and lose the key

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Is the guy a Christian? He thinks so.

Is he full of hate?

Probably.

Is he a closet gay guy?

lolz, probably.

But we live in a society government by a Constitution that allows people to express themselves as they see fit, as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.

His petition would definitely infringe upon the rights of others, ergo; it'll go nowhere. But he is free to be an idiot.

The difference is the Constitution.

Countries where Islam is prevalent don't have that little "infringement" clause. Individual rights aren't as paramount.

Now I am a Christian, although I do not believe the same as this person does.

Which may confuse some people. But those confused people have a hard time imagining that people can have different opinions.

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
California 'Shoot the gays' initiative likely to be circulated

So this is happening. In California an initiative titled "Shoot the gays" will be circulated, and the judge overseeing it has no choice but to allow it, per California law. The initiative would need 365,000 signatures to then be placed on the ballot for a vote to become law.

Matt McLaughlin, a lawyer from Huntington Beach in Orange County, paid his $200 filing fee Feb. 26 to submit the “Sodomite Suppression Act” to the voters. Declaring it is “better that offenders should die rather than that all of us should be killed by God’s just wrath,” it would require that anyone who touches a person of the same gender for sexual gratification be put to death by “bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.”

The measure would also make it a crime, punishable by 10 years in prison and permanent expulsion from the state, to advocate gay rights to an audience that includes minors. It specifies that its constitutionality can be judged only by a state Supreme Court that has been purged of LGBT justices and their advocates. And it authorizes private citizens to step in as executioners if the state fails to act within a year. Another provision would require that the text of the initiative be posted prominently in every public school classroom.

(...) McLaughlin’s measure is currently before Harris, whose options appear to be limited. Once the sponsor has paid the required fee, state law directs the attorney general to prepare a title and a maximum 100-word summary of the initiative and forward it to the secretary of state for a 90-day period of public signature-gathering. The secretary of state’s website says Harris is scheduled to take those actions by about May 4.

So who is this Matt McLaughlin, who submitted this initiative? For starters, this is not his first ballot initiative. His previous initiative was to force schools to use a King James Bible as a textbook.

McLaughlin, a lawyer since 1998, tried to qualify an initiative in 2004 that would have added the King James Bible as a literature textbook in California public schools. He was quoted at the time as saying he was promoting classroom use of the Bible for its “rich use of the English language” and was not trying to indoctrinate students.

It never ceases to amaze me that we still have, in this day and age, religious zealots who view the Bible as instructions to commit murder; “better that offenders should die rather than that all of us should be killed by God’s just wrath,” and that these 'offenders' should die by “bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.”

This is nothing more than a publicity stunt. Both California and federal law prohibits this type of criminal act.

He is probably trying to find new clients who are in the radical extreme far right.

Sick advertising for the sick minded.

This story went around the nation - $200.00 dollars is cheap advertising. I wonder if he works with a lawyer by the name of Saul?

a reply to: ketsuko

All Levitical Law means to a Christian is that it makes it clear that God does not condone homosexuality which means we ought not condone it.

The physical act of a man having sex with a man. Not homosexuality the orientation itself. They had no concept or word for our modern day understanding of a sexual orientation of underlying attraction in Biblical times. Their words reflected the physical sexual act itself. Translations that explicitly include the word 'homosexuality' do so in error. Easily something that can be demonstrated. Either way, Old Testament as far as I know targets men having sex with men, and not women having sex with women. That alone entails it's not anti-homosexuality as women of course can be gay as well.

a reply to: beezzer

maybe so but how does this not equate to hate speech?

Granted it will go no where, but the guy is also advocating for the death of an entire group of people,I have to think even with freedom of speech some law was violated

Like you im all about our rights,but this pretty bad lol

I read "California" in the thread title & it didn't make sense.


Then I read "Orange County" & everything made perfect sense.


They say Austin is like California in Texas, well orange county is Texas in California.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: beezzer

maybe so but how does this not equate to hate speech?

Granted it will go no where, but the guy is also advocating for the death of an entire group of people,I have to think even with freedom of speech some law was violated

Like you im all about our rights,but this pretty bad lol

Certainly it is hate speech. However, should "hate speech" be illegal and, if so, who gets to define it?

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
I read "California" in the thread title & it didn't make sense.


Then I read "Orange County" & everything made perfect sense.


They say Austin is like California in Texas, well orange county is Texas in California.

LOL, that's good to know. Like you I was a little surprised this originated in California, and not some of the the, er, redneck-ier part of the nation.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: beezzer

maybe so but how does this not equate to hate speech?

Granted it will go no where, but the guy is also advocating for the death of an entire group of people,I have to think even with freedom of speech some law was violated

Like you im all about our rights,but this pretty bad lol

It's a gray area to be sure, but is he actually promoting violence?

We had a thread here recently where the NBP protests were actively calling for killing of all cops, yet they were protected by the 1st Amendment.

originally posted by: grey580
Can I pay $200 bucks and get the Shoot Ignorant Idiots Act passed?

Come on folks it's 2015. I thought we left all this crap behind us in the 60's.

orange county in southern California, is like the Ferguson Missouri of California. our wackiest right-wingers come from there, and areas around San Diego.....plus, up in the central foothills, you will see a lot of confederate flags, pick-ups with hounddogs in the back, and hear accents straight out of Arkansas. they live up there because down in the lowlands and along the coast, you have all those brown people. in the extreme north-eastern part of our state, you have the "Dick Cheney Fan club" group of communities. in the extreme north-western part of the state, you have the "keep away from my stash" group....aaahhhh variety...the spice and sometimes the bane of life.

How is this not a threat or inciting hatred?, this guy is probably so full of self loathing because he cannot control his urges/feeling..likley as gay as they come. I thought I had seen it all on here but the fact that this petition may be entertained..WTF, time for a vacation from this place before all hope is lost.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

I am a person that cares deeply about humanity...and the desires of my heart, spirit and soul are for a caring, loving world where there is peace and harmony...now I realize there is true evil in this world that is at all times working against my heart's desire for humanity...but still I have some hope.

However...reading about this lawyer in CA that wants to pass a law to destroy a part of humanity that is so precious...really hurts my heart. To me this lawyer person is insane and he is wrong. One of the sad facts in life is that there are many on this planet that think like he does.

I have many gay friends who I consider family... and who are wonderful loving and caring people...they have helped me in a positive way in my journey in this life. They are so dear to me.

originally posted by: caladonea
a reply to: Blackmarketeer
... and who are wonderful loving and caring people...they have helped me in a positive way in my journey in this life. They are so dear to me.

Take solace knowing that no one feels that way about this lawyer