I am Christian. If your world view is more rational than mine please come show me.

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

You are not the lone Discordian... well, with caveats.

I slipped on Grace (she was drunk and slippery), saw the 40 watt light and now follow Bob... cut me some slack.

But Eris and I go back... and forth.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: akushla99

I observed something in the world, morals. Which eventually lead me to the conclusion that there is a God who is the essence of Good.

But what proof do YOU have of the existence of god other than your own conclusion? (I know you will refuse to answer because anyone with religion always does, you will say "It's not my place to answer, I am asking you")

You have constantly brought this point up against me...and yet you use the very same in your own conclusions. (what, other than your own conclusion proves the rational existence of god?)

I will suggest again that rationally, man's own nature,development and need to survive is what drives morals rather than an invisible deity creating us from nothing and filling us with that knowledge.

a reply to: BlueMule

Good point... and I'm posting at all for a notion that it provoked.

Religious experience, of all stripes, happens... and one portion of my own take is that such experiences frequently produces people who forget to laugh (and then the Christian will say I have the 'demon of mockery' in me... and I agree and move on).

Religion is a polluted well... but gnosticism, or personal experience is a tad more pure... though only as pure as the mind filtering and interpreting it.

That's what happens when one dances with something with no legs... but exists anyway.

Trickster, the one hand clapping koen, Archons, aliens, masked aspects... all the same and different... but at it's core there might be something real... or as real as anything in this hall of mirrors, anyway.

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to take the love, comfort and any personal, relevant revelations... and then leave the baggage for someone who may need a change of underwear more than you.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

"Allow what to happen? How is it circular..just claiming it doesn't prove it...give me a logical premise that shows what I have said is circular...." Quote SOTL

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

ALMIGHTY God creates an adversary that for time immemorial has apparently been the cause of it's/our greatest headache - end point armageddon.

This one point, alone, is devoid of any logic (except internal, with added extras) that question a personal concept of ALMIGHTY...including the Almighty logic that would create a rock it cannot lift...

The word ALMIGHTY does not have many connotations - what's yours?

Å99

a reply to: th33ndgam3

We humans are unique in that we are different . Sons of God as a term that covers human's ,angelic beings , and Gods only son have subtle distinctions depending on the context used . God calls the nation of Israel his son who was going to be unique from all other nations .Abraham having two sons but God says he offered his only begotten son Isaac . The word begotten can be understood as unique in the sense that he was the promised son made to Abraham and Sarah .

In the council of God there are Elohim with differing ranks and functions .They are also called sons of God .There is one Elohim that is unique and above all the rest .Micheal Heiser shows the differing aspects to son of god and the other variances quite well .My attempt is far less so ..

a reply to: Baddogma

All hail discordia!

There are other Discordians around here I was just trying to play the martyr (to no avail). People can't hate what they can't see!

One ton of flax my friend!

*disappears in a flash of sulfurous smoke*

Sh*t.

I evolved too much.

The layman no longer understand's.

Backtrack!! Retreat!!

*runs off to a nearby mountain*

a reply to: Mister_Bit

But what proof do YOU have of the existence of god other than your own conclusion? (I know you will refuse to answer because anyone with religion always does, you will say "It's not my place to answer, I am asking you") You have constantly brought this point up against me...and yet you use the very same in your own conclusions. (what, other than your own conclusion proves the rational existence of god?) I will suggest again that rationally, man's own nature,development and need to survive is what drives morals rather than an invisible deity creating us from nothing and filling us with that knowledge.

In no way have I left you with out evidence for my world view.

The evidence I have given you is that it is more rational to believe that the universe is finite rather than eternal.

The quoted post references the existence of Good as an evidence for my world view.

I have many more, but it doesn't seem that you even understand these two yet...

I will suggest again that rationally, man's own nature,development and need to survive is what drives morals rather than an invisible deity creating us from nothing and filling us with that knowledge.

Just saying the word rationally in your sentence doesn't mean you have shown it to be rational...that requires discussion and analysis. The point of my moral argument is not that God drives morals. He is the very standard to which morals appeal too. You are talking about moral epistemology(how we know what is moral) I am talking about moral ontology(the existence of a moral standard as a whole). Your quote above doesn't even touch on the right subject.

a reply to: akushla99

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Asking you to explain yourself is not obtuse. It simply means that I don't understand where your coming from or what your trying to say.

ALMIGHTY God creates an adversary that for time immemorial has apparently been the cause of it's/our greatest headache - end point armageddon.

God created Lucifer and because Lucifer disobeys his creator I am using circular reasoning? I still don't see how I presupposed the thing I was trying to prove.

This one point, alone, is devoid of any logic (except internal, with added extras) that question a personal concept of ALMIGHTY...including the Almighty logic that would create a rock it cannot lift... The word ALMIGHTY does not have many connotations - what's yours?

That point is not devoid of logic at all? I don't see how the word almighty even plays into what we are talking about...I mean it seems to me based on the whole create a rock it cannot lift thing.. by almighty you mean omnipotent.

And If your question is God omnipotent I would say yes, but God cannot do things that are logically impossible because those things simply cannot exist. For example, A square circle simply cannot exist. Neither can a rock an omnipotent being can't lift. These logical impossibilties would make questions like Can God create a square ciricle unimportant

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Mister_Bit

But what proof do YOU have of the existence of god other than your own conclusion? (I know you will refuse to answer because anyone with religion always does, you will say "It's not my place to answer, I am asking you") You have constantly brought this point up against me...and yet you use the very same in your own conclusions. (what, other than your own conclusion proves the rational existence of god?) I will suggest again that rationally, man's own nature,development and need to survive is what drives morals rather than an invisible deity creating us from nothing and filling us with that knowledge.

In no way have I left you with out evidence for my world view.

The evidence I have given you is that it is more rational to believe that the universe is finite rather than eternal.

The quoted post references the existence of Good as an evidence for my world view.

I have many more, but it doesn't seem that you even understand these two yet...

I will suggest again that rationally, man's own nature,development and need to survive is what drives morals rather than an invisible deity creating us from nothing and filling us with that knowledge.

Just saying the word rationally in your sentence doesn't mean you have shown it to be rational...that requires discussion and analysis. The point of my moral argument is not that God drives morals. He is the very standard to which morals appeal too. You are talking about moral epistemology(how we know what is moral) I am talking about moral ontology(the existence of a moral standard as a whole). Your quote above doesn't even touch on the right subject.

I give up mate, there is no talking to you on any level.

I said you'd evade the question and you did.

You are purposefully evasive and vague, you wont validate your own points, give 'opinion' as fact and faith as evidence and wont answer a direct question.

Nothing personal but we cannot discuss things 'rationally'

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb

The evidence I have given you is that it is more rational to believe that the universe is finite rather than eternal.

That's not evidence... that's an opinion.

originally posted by: puzzlesphere

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb

The evidence I have given you is that it is more rational to believe that the universe is finite rather than eternal.

That's not evidence... that's an opinion.

I think they have determined an edge... can't remember the exact phrase they use to describe it?

I wonder what's on the other side?

End of Greatness

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

if God(a creator of the universe) exist, then he is the essence of Good(perfect in all attributes related to Good).

Or....not. He is not necessarily 'the Essence of Good.' It is only you people that make that giant leap from the available literature to 'modern born-againism'. It's crap.

Maybe your revered "God (creator of the universe)" doesn't exist at all - and maybe if he does (which is very doubtful), AND behaves the way he's described in his 'biography', then "he" is, clearly, a masochistic jerk. And that's where your entire thread fell apart - you are claiming to know the mind of 'God', and you don't know the mind of any 'divine being' - God or Zeus or anyone else.

If God(the creator of the universe) is the essence of Good, then God is perfectly Just.

This does not follow. YOU are the one saying "God" is the essence of "Good" - other people think that your 'God' is a psychopathic jerk. Your 'story' is all based on his 'biography', you know (the Bible).

a reply to: Mister_Bit
I agree and a few of us have come to the same conclusion. He is all over the board and you can't nail down on any point. He is suitably vague and spouts opinion. I am done here too.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

Is it permeable or solid... what is nothingness... the big bang obviously isn't creating it...

Is it Space?

www.fromquarkstoquasars.com...

freaky!

if God(a creator of the universe) exist, then he is the essence of Good(perfect in all attributes related to Good). If God(the creator of the universe) is the essence of Good, then God is perfectly Just. 

Well...

'I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.' -Isaiah 45:7

Transcendent Divinity is beyond all pairs of opposites, and encompasses them all. Coincidentia oppositorum.

The problem of evil is not as simple as identifying with the good and fighting the evil. Oh, how I wish it was.

👣

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

THE LOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY IS THAT IT WOULD CREATE ITS OWN RIVAL...THAT IT CANNOT POOF INTO KINGDOM COME.

Is that plain enough ?

You have averred Almightiness, and then proceed to limit Almightiness...do you seriously consider this to be a legitimate position to take?

Å99

a reply to: BlueMule

You know, I was just thinking of editing my post to say:

"unless, ServantofTheLamb, you understand that we are ALL a part of God."

But - in the event, it didn't seem worth the trouble. He can't hear it. Can't see it. He might 'read' it and comprehend the words, but still he can't go there. Not really. NOT YET.

(The map is not the territory, and all that. 'A bill of fare with one real raisin on it instead of the word 'raisin', with one real egg instead of the word 'egg', might be an inadequate meal, but it would at least be a commencement of reality.' - William James)

Maybe, though ----- maybe, one day, he'll understand. Just maybe. And that's all any of us can hope to do, right? Plant seeds.

originally posted by: BlueMule
'I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.' -Isaiah 45:7

Heavy! I never seen that before...

But is this talking about the 3 days of darkness in Egypt?

Reading the previous verses we get "though you have not acknowledged me"

sounds familiar?

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: BlueMule
'I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.' -Isaiah 45:7

Heavy! I never seen that before...

But is this talking about the 3 days of darkness in Egypt?

Reading the previous verses we get "though you have not acknowledged me"

sounds familiar?

I don't think it refers to anything in particular. I think it's probably an example of panentheism poking through the henotheism/monotheism.

👣