Spirituality might work if it wasn't so stupid.

Nothing ... no Earth or Sun or other stars ... no love ... no movement ... without life ... not even dead ... just nothing
No soul ... no thoughts, ideas ... nothing to share ... nothing to give or receive ... just nothing

How does such a belief help or uplift others ... there is much more to Reality than just nothing

originally posted by: artistpoet
Nothing ... no Earth or Sun or other stars ... no love ... no movement ... without life ... not even dead ... just nothing
No soul ... no thoughts, ideas ... nothing to share ... nothing to give or receive ... just nothing

How does such a belief help or uplift others ... there is much more to Reality than just nothing

Movement is happening is it not?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Movement is happening is it not?

Yes things are in motion but the cause of the motion is something ...

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Movement is happening is it not?

Yes things are in motion but the cause of the motion is something ...

Things are not in motion - there are no things.
This that is ever presently appearing is constantly appearing different.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Movement is happening is it not?

Yes things are in motion but the cause of the motion is something ...

Is it the big bang that caused the motion or was it something prior to that?

a reply to: bb23108

I am my eye, bb. As soon as light hits it, it hits me, and I am seeing. I would not be able to see that light if it had nothing to reflect off of. It is direct. Even if it was dark, I could go and touch it directly. Seeing, light, is not necessary, for perception, nor is an image analogy, as any blind man will prove.

The time it takes for light to travel shows that there is a relationship between perceived and perceived. Some things are simply further away than others. If it was all an image, nothing could be further away than another, and depth perception, distance, etc. would be an illusion.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Things are not in motion - there are no things.
This that is ever presently appearing is constantly appearing different.

The Universe we abide in is in motion and is ever changing ... it is full of all sorts of things in states of growth or decay ... ...appearing is not a thing ... an object can appear ... like a star ... but nothing will never appear ... nothing is a separation from that which is ...

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If it was all an image, nothing could be further away than another, and depth perception, distance, etc. would be an illusion.

Time and space is an illusion.
Where is time now?
And where is there another space for this image to appear in?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

What image?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Is it the big bang that caused the motion or was it something prior to that?

How would I know for sure ... Not even sure if the Big Bang theory is true ... but for the sake of discussion ... if it were true ... I believe something caused the Big Bang ...

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Itisnowagain

What image?

This that is appearing as seeing.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Is it the big bang that caused the motion or was it something prior to that?

How would I know for sure ... Not even sure if the Big Bang is theory is true ... but for the sake of discussion ... if it were true ... I believe something caused the Big Bang ...

The problem with the mind is that it can imagine absolutely anything and then as it presents all these things, they can be believed or not believed.
But does what is actually happening need to be believed?
But that is too simple for the mind - the mind is seeking answers in time and space.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

But does what is actually happening need to be believed?

Yes ... I need to believe that what is happening is real but understand it is only a limited view of reality

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Willtell

The disbeliever is another myth promoted by assumed spiritual hierarchies. Truth is, I believe in something; you believe in nothing.

I even believe in you, friend. You're real. I would place no spirit, no consciousness, nor no God above you. I do nothing but defend your reality, while you and others slander it.

i use my entire body, not just sight. What do you use?

You remind me of someone (great movie, btw)



Now understand I’m not calling you the devil

(Check out the mentality!)

Cause the devil even believes in God and the unseen


So with all due respect where could that leave people who don’t believe?


There is an old saying, It goes like this:


"There's some people the devil don't even want!"

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108

I am my eye, bb. As soon as light hits it, it hits me, and I am seeing. I would not be able to see that light if it had nothing to reflect off of. It is direct. Even if it was dark, I could go and touch it directly. Seeing, light, is not necessary, for perception, nor is an image analogy, as any blind man will prove.

The time it takes for light to travel shows that there is a relationship between perceived and perceived. Some things are simply further away than others. If it was all an image, nothing could be further away than another, and depth perception, distance, etc. would be an illusion.

And this is where we differ. You say you are your eyes whereas, the only experience I have of my eyes is that they exist in my awareness, provide images, etc., to awareness. But I am not fundamentally my eyes - I am awareness.

Now we can define ourselves as our eyes or obviously as our body-minds for convenience in communication, keeping order, etc., but fundamentally I only ever experience through the mode of consciousness or awareness whatever the body-mind is manifesting. When the body-mind dies, the awareness does not - though one must find that out for themselves.

I was only giving the seeing of an image as an example. This same argument applies to any and all feedback that the body-mind provides in relation to objects.

All sensations, sound, light, touch, smell, taste are experienced only and always via awareness, and they all take time to occur - so we never experience any object as it is at the very moment the body-mind first began sensing it. In other words, we are NEVER in the position of directly experiencing an object as it IS exactly at the moment the light or sound is created. Only non-separate reality itself could possibly be in such a position.

a reply to: bb23108

Then you believe you are a ghost riding in a machine. It is no different than any soul hypothesis. There are vast amounts of evidence and arguments that prove the opposite, however. So I won't get into them here.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108

Then you believe you are a ghost riding in a machine. It is no different than any soul hypothesis. There are vast amounts of evidence and arguments that prove the opposite, however. So I won't get into them here.

Oh dear, you almost could have said "spirit" instead of "ghost", LesMis! But that word is stupid!

No belief necessary, friend. It is just the way it is. Awareness is not a ghost or spirit - it is beyond all conditional objects whether physical or subtle.

You have not answered my question - show me that you actually experience anything or anyone directly apart from a mode of awareness.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Btw A DISBELEIVER IS NOT A MYTH

A myth is a symbolic story that teaches a theme or motif

Disbeliever is one who doesn’t believe in a process or ideal or doctrine.

You got to get these things straight or you won’t be a real militant atheist like the big boy’s Dawkins and Sam Harris

a reply to: bb23108

What is a mode of awareness?

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Itisnowagain

But does what is actually happening need to be believed?

Yes ... I need to believe that what is happening is real but understand it is only a limited view of reality

You feel that you need to believe 'something' (some concept), rather than just see that seeing and hearing is just happening?