NATO escalating Ukraine crisis with blatant lies, according to Germany

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: sosobad

No not confusing. Just bringing up facts you would rather not talk about. Instead of looking to Germany for answers look to the countries that are most threatened by Russia for answers. Germany is not all of NATO. Sorry to confuse you with actual facts.

Hold on you called this propaganda and then failed to show why and then started talking about Poland. The whole damn thread is about Germany and NATO but you want to talk about Poland. Yes you are confused or just outright throwing a strop because you can't back up your claim. Your "actual facts" would be better of suited in a thread about Poland and NATO

originally posted by: rock427
a reply to: bjarneorn

The only thing remotely idiotic is your rudimentary understanding of nato. As for nato expanding; perhaps you should start by asking the right question. Why are countries fleeing for nato instead of rejecting it?

I agree, just watched that Video from page one inside Russia (vice) and it looks so poor and people look so unhappy. I remember East Germany when the wall came down and how poor it was, how the infrastructure was all crumbling and how west Germany had to pay re-patriation tax to bring it up to standard.

Then look at almost all former Bloc countries, ruined by Communism and ask why they want to join NATO. Because they don't want to be pulled back into a poor communist existence.

If NATO is expanding, by invitation, it is not to attack Russia, it is to Defend from ever being part of that mess again.

Maybe Dr Breedlove is raising the stakes so he can get more focus from his CoC. I can't see NATO getting involved in a civil war if Ukraine join. Russia will get its ass handed to itself fighting a proxy war in Ukraine.

Germany is still the biggest financial, industrial, technological and military power in Europe. If the US establishment illusionists like Nuland, McCain, Ed Lucas, Breedlove keep their war-mongering and lose Germany and France as partners-in-crime as result, they'll be losing a lot more than they think over East Europe and in general. The reality that NATO agency has been also backing Neonazis in Ukraine is also starting to spread through the political elite.

I simply can't believe they're THAT shortsighted and stupid... there's gotta be something else from behind.

a reply to: sosobad

I claimed that your propaganda revolved around Germany. Germany is only one member of NATO. For some reason you were refuse to acknowledge all the other countries that involve NATO. So yes you are spouting German propaganda about a multinational organization. Some of which see the Russian threat a lot more clearly than Germany.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: sosobad

Where did I say I supported the protest in Ukraine? Stay on topic its libyia not ukraine. Trying to deflect to something else is cheap no matter how you slice it. I support peoples voices but when the majority abuses the minority then someone should step in and stop it right?

So you support the original protests that started the Libya civil war? Protests that were largely carried out by radical islamists?

Al-quaeda started bombing.[21] and rebels began forming their own government.

simple.m.wikipedia.org...

But dismiss the crowd of 1.7 million protest against western intervention? An intervention that directly aided in ISIS's rise to power? Gotcha

And don't be whinging about deflecting when you outright lied on another thread about me not too long ago. And yes you supported the euromaidan from the get go and anyone that has been on those threads knows it.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: sosobad

I claimed that your propaganda revolved around Germany. Germany is only one member of NATO. For some reason you were refuse to acknowledge all the other countries that involve NATO. So yes you are spouting German propaganda about a multinational organization. Some of which see the Russian threat a lot more clearly than Germany.

This will be my last response to you as it is late where I am and you still have not shown one piece of evidence as to how this is propaganda, not one. It is far too late for me to argue with someone who cant see that this is a thread about Germany.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: sosobad

I claimed that your propaganda revolved around Germany. Germany is only one member of NATO. For some reason you were refuse to acknowledge all the other countries that involve NATO. So yes you are spouting German propaganda about a multinational organization. Some of which see the Russian threat a lot more clearly than Germany.

... what was just "Russian/Putin propaganda" yesterday has now become also "German propaganda" (funniest thing I've heard in a while...whatever that means). Also add the "French propaganda" to this as both Hollande and Sarkozy recently expressed criticism over this whole anti-Russian war rhetoric. Also Turkey seems to have become cozy with Russia. So how is losing powerful partners is any political empowerment in your strange logic?

Looks like NATO's list of allies grows thin! As I wrote above, Germany and France are no junior-league football teams. If NATO loses support from them, the next thing you know it'll fold back to the original UK/USA alliance.

a reply to: anticitizen

It's funny how you discuss the Der Spegeil article 'in detail' but forget to mention this stated in the article...

"To be sure, neither Berlin's Russia experts nor BND intelligence analysts doubt that Moscow is supporting the pro-Russian separatists. The BND even has proof of such support."

That's ok. You simply were focused on bashing the US and missed the country that is fueling the whole conflict...as well as sending soldiers...
link
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Echtelion

And till Russia start claiming more territory iae their's which they Seized after World War II. Then Europe will once again be screaming for US and UK help.

And I for one hope the US lets you complain about the new occupations while we offer not one bit of help.

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: rock427
a reply to: bjarneorn

The only thing remotely idiotic is your rudimentary understanding of nato. As for nato expanding; perhaps you should start by asking the right question. Why are countries fleeing for nato instead of rejecting it?

I agree, just watched that Video from page one inside Russia (vice) and it looks so poor and people look so unhappy. I remember East Germany when the wall came down and how poor it was, how the infrastructure was all crumbling and how west Germany had to pay re-patriation tax to bring it up to standard.

Then look at almost all former Bloc countries, ruined by Communism and ask why they want to join NATO. Because they don't want to be pulled back into a poor communist existence.

I really can't believe there's still people on this Earth who associate today's Russia with a "Soviet communist regime".

And explain me how the forced IMF bailouts, and resulting austerity measures, are any sort of enrichment for the people in Ukraine these days. The problem with Ukraine isn't Putin's "imperialism", but the fact that it's been run by CRIMINAL oligarchs like KOLOMOISKY since the Soviet bloc fell, which doesn't mean it was much better before.... only different.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: anticitizen

It's funny how you discuss the Der Spegeil article 'in detail' but forget to mention this stated in the article...

"To be sure, neither Berlin's Russia experts nor BND intelligence analysts doubt that Moscow is supporting the pro-Russian separatists. The BND even has proof of such support."

That's ok. You simply were focused on bashing the US and missed the country that is fueling the whole conflict...as well as sending soldiers...
link
www.youtube.com...

aw come on... Vice is a propaganda outlet owned by Rupert Murdoch. And the zionist American reporter who've been doing propaganda pieces for them against anything Russian in Ukraine is a total shill of the US establishment.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Echtelion

And till Russia start claiming more territory iae their's which they Seized after World War II. Then Europe will once again be screaming for US and UK help.

And I for one hope the US lets you complain about the new occupations while we offer not one bit of help.

Yawn... this is getting ridiculous. Russia has NO plan to grab territory beyond the ethnically-Russian areas that have been secured in Ukraine. Perhaps a bit more will secede from the Neonazis in Kiev, but Putin said openly they had to use and not interest in taking over East Europe.

On the other hand, there's tons of evidence of the US-NATO establishment planning to take over EVERYTHING eastward... and 'till last year they've been successful at it. No one can deny the US invasions and NATO annexations all around Russia since 25 years. They want the whole of Eurasia... and Zbigniew CLEARLY wrote about this plan back in the '90s.

You do like to fail, don't you?

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: sosobad

Where did I say I supported the protest in Ukraine? Stay on topic its libyia not ukraine. Trying to deflect to something else is cheap no matter how you slice it. I support peoples voices but when the majority abuses the minority then someone should step in and stop it right?

So you support the original protests that started the Libya civil war? Protests that were largely carried out by radical islamists?

Al-quaeda started bombing.[21] and rebels began forming their own government.

simple.m.wikipedia.org...

But dismiss the crowd of 1.7 million protest against western intervention? An intervention that directly aided in ISIS's rise to power? Gotcha

And don't be whinging about deflecting when you outright lied on another thread about me not too long ago. And yes you supported the euromaidan from the get go and anyone that has been on those threads knows it.

WHere did i say i support them protesting? I said i support people voicing their opinion. And as long as they are peaceful they are ok. You can voice your opinion without protesting.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

It's funny how you discuss the Der Spegeil article 'in detail' but forget to mention this stated in the article...

"To be sure, neither Berlin's Russia experts nor BND intelligence analysts doubt that Moscow is supporting the pro-Russian separatists. The BND even has proof of such support."

Ehm, it is not the subject of the article, is it? The OP was also not denying this.

That's ok. You simply were focused on bashing the US and missed the country that is fueling the whole conflict...as well as sending soldiers... link

No the OP focussed on the subject of the article, you know the same subject that you try to ignore by focussing on the one line in the article that is critical of Russia about something the OP nor anyone else here was denying.

Pretty transparent (and laughable) tactics.


And btw, the source is called Der Spiegel, not Speigel or Spegeil. I am sure these are just simple spelling mistakes. I mean there is no way that anybody would be so desperate to do it on purpose just for effect. Right?

a reply to: noeltrotsky

You ruined your credibility by using Wikipedia to prove ideological issue

Wikipedia can only be trusted for hardcore science stuff, sometimes not even then

Anything political or ideological and Wikipedia is just a CIA editing station

originally posted by: rock427
I dont think you have the slightest clue who or what NATO is.

NATO is defensive in nature,

I stopped reading right there, lol why should I read the Rest of your post?

I mean my goodness man.... Even CNN covered all the NATO conquests

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: anticitizen

It's funny how you discuss the Der Spegeil article 'in detail' but forget to mention this stated in the article...

"To be sure, neither Berlin's Russia experts nor BND intelligence analysts doubt that Moscow is supporting the pro-Russian separatists. The BND even has proof of such support."

That's ok. You simply were focused on bashing the US and missed the country that is fueling the whole conflict...as well as sending soldiers...
link
www.youtube.com...

I haven't been discussing it since it's not the topic. Topic is: NATO escalating Ukraine crisis trough lies.
But from my pov Russia intervening in Ukraine is plausible. You know, it's what the US has been doing for years now after all... and they have been bombing whole countries for less reasons.
And i'm not bashing USA, i'm bashing their foreign policy.

And messing around in the backyard of russia and bring it closer to NATO is a stupid move and one more aggressive act, just like the missile shield around Russia. I'm just glad Russia isn't as triggerhappy as the US and NATO command. Else we had full scale war already.

a reply to: sosobad

I missed the part about me lying about you i SAID that AT THE TIME VICTOR USED THE SAME PICTURE SO I GOT CONFUSED. I EVEN SAID IT IN THE THREAD. So dont go there about me not owning up to my mistakes. You must had not read that i guess. i forgive you though.

point is thought you were deflecting from the topic at hand to something un releated and i will not apologize for that.

The topic is NAto escalation right? has nato annexxed anything there? its also a free to enter organization for any country who wants in. so its ok as long as they arent former soviet states right? how hypocritical russia telling others how to conduct themselves. The US does to at times so dont go there.

a reply to: anticitizen
Great post OP.

The German's are also the one's that are most offended
by the new government in Ukraine since a number of
Nazi's are now in government positions including the
vice president of Ukraine.

Nazi skinheads were used to overthrow the elected
government.

Rebel 5

a reply to: anticitizen
People have no idea the money made in selling arms. The U.S. is the largest seller of weapons in the world. Do know how many years the U.S. has NOT been in one form of armed conflict or another since its inception? Very, very few. It also keeps the blind patriotism going and distracts from the political thievery. The rich get richer, the poor are brainwashed into signing up and going to pointless wars and suffer at home, if they get home. And it's nothing new!