Christian University Chaplain Fired after Preaching Peace Over War

originally posted by: glend

Perhaps that so called Christian school should enter an eleventh commandment, thou shall not threaten the profit of the military Industrial complex.

Don't you mean "prophet" of the military-industrial complex?

the gist of this thread is unsettling , coupled with the threads that are prominate lately
war seems to be the theme. the drums are pounding loudly and i am very afraid of the future.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God" - Matthew 5:9

Sad that a follower of CHRIST at a CHRISTian university can get fired from their job for not siding with the devil and encouraging humanity to destroy itself through war.

a reply to: NthOther

Speaking of peace and love is not profitable to the war machine but war is!

S&F

Don't ever come between a man's guns and his gawd...

a reply to: NthOther

So the Kansas City Star, which has a notable progressive bias in everything, says the guy was fired because of this sermon and everyone here leaps all over it? Typical.

For one thing, Selma is story about racism which has a narrative the country is fatigued about - whites bad, blacks good. America bad. IN a day and age where we only have to turn on the TV to get that same message yelled at us by the media every day. It's no surprise no one shelled out $20/person to see it in the theatre. I know I wouldn't.

And if I see American Sniper, it won't be because I'm addicted to war, guns, violence, etc. It will be because I tend to like the way Clint Eastwood puts a movie together. Although in all honesty, I don't imagine I'll see either.

Also, when he says that equating Christianity with patriotism? Where is that even implied by anything? It basically sounds to me like he is saying we aren't a Christian nation and shouldn't hold any loyalty to our country or even care about it. Hello ... shades of Reverand Wright.

Then he goes on to say some stuff that sounds OK, until he starts making the implication that if we want our country to stay free, we are somehow not being Christian. Doesn't he realize that if we lose our freedom, we also lose our ability to be Christian? Isn't he aware that Christians in other nations are dying, often horribly, because they don't have their freedom? That because we are willing to defend our freedom, he can stand up there and tell us we should lose our freedom because that really shows how much we love God.

Then he starts railing about persecution. For those of you who think Christians have a persecution complex ... you either want to persecute us or you didn't read the entirety of this man's sermon. HE WANTS PEOPLE TO PERSECUTE CHRISTIANS. Maybe that's why those of you reading this piece said spot one? You'd like to persecute us and load us on cattle cars?

One person said to me, but they didn’t have terrorists trying to kill them. THEY DID. THE ROMANS WERE AN OPPRESSIVE SUPER-POWER RULING OVER THEM, THEY CRUCIFIED HUNDREDS IN PUBLIC PLACES AS EXAMPLES TO THOSE WHO FELL OUT OF LINE.

Yes, he just stood up there and preached that we should all be persecuted and die.

No wonder so many of you love his sermon.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, he just stood up there and preached that we should all be persecuted and die.

No wonder so many of you love his sermon.

LOL!! No - he stood up there and quoted from the Bible.

Matthew, and Romans (Romans of course, was written by Paul, not Jesus). Only TWO instances of the word "persecute" - and both came straight from the Bible. Your favorite book.

He also said:

It is a scary complicated world out there. People want to kill us. We have an obligation to protect our children and loved ones, our neighbors. But Christian words are not revenge and retaliation, they are redemption and reconciliation.
This is the struggle.
So, what does Jesus have to say about it. Again, if you are not a follower of Jesus you can relax. This doesn’t concern you.
But Christians have to do something with this. I have to do something with the words of Jesus and his actions.
We have to be very careful about equating patriotism with Christianity. We never say God and…anything. God is above all, everything else is underneath.
love my country and am thankful for freedom.

That sounds to me like he wants to protect his and your freedom, and feels obliged to protect those in danger.
How is that "railing about persecution"?

Even I have heard those verses before - Jesus was a pacifist.
Perhaps you're in the wrong religion if you think he didn't really teach those things. EVERY kid who's been to Sunday School knows he said "do not repay evil with evil", etc.

As for the Star - it's one of the better newspapers out there - balanced, intelligent, and non-inflammatory.
You really do have a very defensive, rabid, and strange way of thinking.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Charlie, "church and state" relates to government run, compulsory environments. Not universities, where you are paying for your education.

I went to Hardin Simmons University for a short while, and sat through required church services.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

And most religious universities where you would be required to sit through a service are private ones I think although I don't have huge experience with religiously affiliated universities.

a reply to: ketsuko
At the end of the sermon, he said:

Are we walking toward the Kingdom of God where weapons are beaten into plowshares, where no one goes hungry, everyone is valued and cared for? Or are we walking away from the Kingdom?

You should write him a letter, since he then asked for thoughts about it.

a reply to: ketsuko

That is true.

As is this university, in the OP.

Although, the catch is what is and is not considered part of the curriculum requirement for your degree. I would presume that theology degrees of all types would require some time spent observing theology in action.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NthOther
For one thing, Selma is story about racism which has a narrative the country is fatigued about - whites bad, blacks good. America bad. IN a day and age where we only have to turn on the TV to get that same message yelled at us by the media every day. It's no surprise no one shelled out $20/person to see it in the theatre. I know I wouldn't.

You may be tired of hearing about the racism in the US but that doesn't mean that anyone else is nor does it mean that it doesn't exist. And while you may not want to hear how the US still has this problem, others choose not to ignore it.

And if I see American Sniper, it won't be because I'm addicted to war, guns, violence, etc. It will be because I tend to like the way Clint Eastwood puts a movie together. Although in all honesty, I don't imagine I'll see either.

Do you think Eastwood's directorial style is what brought in the millions? or was it the guns being fired at the Muslims by a good ol boy?

Then he starts railing about persecution. For those of you who think Christians have a persecution complex ... you either want to persecute us or you didn't read the entirety of this man's sermon. HE WANTS PEOPLE TO PERSECUTE CHRISTIANS. Maybe that's why those of you reading this piece said spot one? You'd like to persecute us and load us on cattle cars?

Lol self pwnage right there.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thanks for the insight Texan...

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
I would love another reformation that would create 2 different new types of Christians.

Those who follow Jesus teachings and believe works is the way to prove what you are. The ones who follow Jesus example and will fix their sins themselves.

The ones who believe they are saved since the call themselves Christians and believe Jesus died for the sins. We can call them followers of Paul. Paulism since they follow Paul.

Any one having an objection?

Already happening.

Check out Blood on the Altar: The Coming War Between Christian vs. Christian by Tom Horn, Gary Stearman, Chuck Missler and Cris Putnam.

The apostate church will join or head up the New One World Religion and go on to rid themselves of the rest of us.

a reply to: infolurker

The apostate church will join or head up the New One World Religion and go on to rid themselves of the rest of us.

Which one is the "apostate church" ?

originally posted by: ketsuko

So the Kansas City Star, which has a notable progressive bias in everything, says the guy was fired because of this sermon and everyone here leaps all over it? Typical.

It was either that or Raw Story, which I purposely didn't link to because it has a "notable progressive bias in everything".

So take your pick. Shoot the messenger, ignore the message.

Also, when he says that equating Christianity with patriotism? Where is that even implied by anything? It basically sounds to me like he is saying we aren't a Christian nation and shouldn't hold any loyalty to our country or even care about it. Hello ... shades of Reverand Wright.

Seriously? Did you really read the sermon?

Have you ever read the New Testament, for that matter? Reverend Wright is correct when he chastises America and encourages us to be loyal to God above all else. That is consistent with Biblical teachings.

Modern Christians have their priorities all screwed up, which is the point here. Yes, God is more important than America. If you have to choose between God and America, you choose God. Most Christians will say that, but in reality act entirely to the contrary.

And if you dare call them out on it... well, we've seen what happens.

I don't think that Christians should be anti-military (it serves an important function, and the Bible recognizes this) just anti-needless aggression and wasteful killing (or, put it another way, pro-peace.) You'd think this would be something we can all agree on, right?

A while back I did a film review for a Christian publication. I criticized a particular film because I didn't think it did an adequate job of defending America's wars of choice. Oddly enough, those particular critiques didn't make it to the published cut.

Although space constraints *do* exist in journalism (if you go about screaming because all your words didn't make it to the final cut, you won't get very far) I feel reasonably confident that I lost a couple of paragraphs because my pointed criticisms didn't align with the worldview of the publication's audience.

I'm not complaining–it's not skin off my nose-but I think it illustrates the interesting state of mainstream conservative Christianity in America, although perhaps not as well as the OP's story. Seems too soon to judge if the chaplain was, in fact, being censored, but I'm really glad he at least put his foot forward to get people to think. If the transcript in the OP is accurate, he did a really good job of asking people to wrestle with the question rather than just trying to shove the answer down their throats. A good example for us all today, I think.

didnt it used to be a marine slogan "kill em all", short for "kill them all and let god sort em out"?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes but those aren't real Christians, nor are most fundamentalists. Being a Christian means trying to walk in Christ's footsteps and being a lot more metaphorical.

This man was fired for doing his job.

originally posted by: Unity_99
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes but those aren't real Christians, nor are most fundamentalists. Being a Christian means trying to walk in Christ's footsteps and being a lot more metaphorical.

This man was fired for doing his job.

Part of the reason this man was able to preach what he preached is because a good many people over the years, many of them Christian, defended this country with their lives. Some of those people fought and died to establish it in the first place.

Had those people not been willing to take up arms, things would be very different and it is arguable whether or what type of pulpit this man would have had.

Some may say that there is no excuse for a Christian to ever fight for themselves and be Christian, but if that were true, them God would never had ordered the Israelites to take up arms in their own defense so many times either, even to the point of aggression.

And of course, we spend so much time being told we cannot judge and to not be judgmental and I see a good deal of judgmentalism going on here starting with what came out of this man's mouth. Many of you are piling on because what he said is something you agree with. So much for a loving God who forgives ... not when it comes to this issue apparently.