911 Truth Hijacked: 911 Perps Created the Truth Movement!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

There are no disinfo agents trying to peddle some kind of 9/11 agenda because like i said, the 9/11 truth movement is peddling enough disinfo themselves.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The 9/11 truth movement started out making logical inquiries into what happened that day, focusing on things like the defense of airspace over the pentagon, looking into NORAD's activities and standard operating procedures, building 7, etc.

Once it started gaining traction, the holographic plane bs or the mini nuke crap started finding it's way into the discussion. Completely ridiculous stuff that really did distract from the core issue of discovering the truth.

I do agree with your points about how fractured the truth movement has become, but could it be possible that was the result of a disinfo campaign? After well over a decade of looking into the subject, I am content to say that I don't know what happened that day or which parties were actively involved, but I do know the U.S government wasn't telling the whole truth, and still isn't. Whether that is a result of an effort to cover up their own ineptitude, or because they had a hand in it, I don't know. I just know what I believe.

I think the truth movement would be better served by discarding some of the wilder theories and framing their efforts in the spirit of genuine inquiry, rather than pretending there is ironclad evidence supporting the notion that the Israelis were behind it, or there were holographic planes, or Dick Cheney and the lizard people planned it all.

Start with the basics: Either the U.S government knew it was coming and did nothing (or actively had a hand in it), or they were stunningly inept at defending the nation and are guilty of a monumental failure in national defense. Either scenario is a crime worthy of punishment imo, and thus far nobody has paid for that crime except for the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. People who clearly had nothing to do with it.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Shadow Herder

If you had read the information provided you wouldnt have wrote that.

I read the whole thing and watched all but one of the videos

The thread states the theories you mentioned were created not by truthers but the people covering the truth of 911. Your post is actually proof of how this disinfo tactic is supposed to work.

I don't think you quite get what i am saying.

Do you not see how fractured the 9/11 truth movement looks when people who advocate some kind of false flag cannot agree on how it happened and cannot even trust that the people who advocate theories they do not subscribe to.

This is the internet, crazy people get a loud voice. So someone doesn't have to be a Israeli cyber disinfo agent for them to post some ludicrous theory about "no planes". Every major conspiracy theory has its share of crazies who try to promote some pretty out of the box and at times down right sickening theories. Just look at the people who like to go on about the Sandy Hook "Actors". Saying that the victams of a school shooting were actors and saying there were no planes on 9/11 are equally nuts. You do not need any disinfo agents about to peddle this stuff, because the "truthers" are peddling enough of their own disnfo.

Threads like this are a perfect example.

It appears obvious that you have failed to read the OP before responding.

But you'll say otherwise of course.

What motivates many conspiracy theorists is fear of the chaos of reality. It's easier to believe everything is being controlled by elite conspirators than to believe we actually live in chaos and random crap can happen to you at any time. In this case it's more reassuring to believe there is organized conspiracy behind the sprawling "truth" movement than it is to wrap your brain around the fact that the world is full of insanity and any wacko or hoaxer with access to a computer is now part of the grand Media.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Of course it is easy for the conspiracies don't exist crowd to make up all kinds of new scenarios in their minds that support buildings exploding to dust because of planes and jet fuel.

Does not matter what anyone says or THINKS after the fact, everyone in the WORLD saw this happen, and then were victimized while in shock to believe something that could have never happened, obliteration on a scale even beyond controlled demolition.

Judy Wood is the closest in questioning : The firefighters boots were "melting" and yet no one had burnt feet!!!

Something different happened, take a closer look at this disintegration and all the bizarre things that those buildings and surrounding area had going on.

Something special happened, I have scads of pictures of the area, and none of it fits with anything, except for Judy Woods theories have some possibility.

The fact she gets attacked more than ANYONE on this subject should ring alarm bells, when all she said was, HOW does all this happen, without something a hell of a lot different than what we are led to believe.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Shadow Herder

I really do hate this kind of arrogance

But your arrogance should be accepted by everyone else. It's easy from your perspective to say what you say, but from my perspective as an engineering student, I say, "Building 7, steel construction, no way, never, not in a million years."

Then following that I say, "Who is responsible?"

You can talk about arrogance and put truthers in parenthesis condescendingly until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't at all make the perspective of the challenging voice of the matter less relevant than your own. If speaking so sharply and assuredly about the matter makes you feel like an "expert" on the Internet, whatever makes you feel warm. But it may be wise to remember that you're not and there are still loose ends that have been blatantly ignored or glanced over and that is what bothers people who want the full picture and for every important detail to be addressed concerning our nation's most radical tragedy.

Also, too. This wasn't just a catalyzing event for our nation, the foundations of lies directly after created a tragic outcome for people all over the Middle East that is still unraveling to date.

Furthest thing from your perspective of an open and shut event.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

I have seen many of Judy Wood's talks but I have not read her book. She never claims that there were space lasers or other hi-tech machinery that took the buildings down. However she does not rule them out, since the demolition of the towers were unlike anything ever seen before.

The claim she makes is that the buildings "dustified," that they seemed to turn to dust as they were falling to the ground. She goes indepth about the amount of dust that was created, how that dust then went up and seemed to cover large amounts of area-much dust remained in the atmosphere for at least a week, how the buildings did not create a significant seismic wave when they hit the ground-meaning that much of the building did not hit the ground when compared to other demolitions of much smaller scale. She also talks about how cars many blocks away from the WTC in large parking lots seemed to start on fire in rather odd ways, some were even flipped over on their roofs, and also about the strange "fires" that werent really fires that kept burning within the rubble. Also she talks about how large steel beams were bent like pretzels and did not crack. She links this to small scale recreations that John Hutchison was able to create, without using heat.

I personally don't think she is in the same category as many of the truthers. She has done her research and presents it in a very informative and technical way, but she never makes a claim about knowing how many of the happened. But I take everything with a grain of salt, and until buildings like these are brought down in order to have a frame of reference, then we could talk about the similarities. See Dubai and China.

a reply to: iDope

How would that bs lead you to Israeli involvement in 911? or Ptech hijacking faa? How about insider trading, missing gold... Get it now?

originally posted by: Shadow Herder
a reply to: iDope

How would that bs lead you to Israeli involvement in 911? or Ptech hijacking faa? How about insider trading, missing gold... Get it now?

So you are proposing the the 9/11 truth movement has been hijacked by people who posit completely ridiculous theories, while promoting equally ridiculous theories?

Makes sense.

The Truth Movement is a lot like all religion, buried deep inside that mess resides the one true reality, but actually agents of evil planted false idea's that became the standard and discredited the whole entire thing.
So the true reality of 9/11 is buried within the truth movement but it has become so convoluted that it is hard to see the truth at all. I stopped trying to figure all the details out, I just know the OS is a lie.
It takes a special type of evil to attack your own, Nazi's doing the Reichstag's fire comes to mind.

You are correct.

Picture a Pyramid in your mind,then place a flowing hourglass full of sand atop it,see how the sand fluidly and constantly flows DOWN into the top of the pyramid while an equal volume of sand falls through the bottom of the pyramid,the integrity of the pyramid itself,the structure of it,the borders and all in between are 100% controlled and regulated and created by the flowing of the sand and its pressure and form.

If you stop the sand from flowing into the top of the pyramid,the sand will continue to flow out the bottom and the pyramid will eventually fall into itself or implode.Just like the TTs did.

The Owners of the TTS are the top of the pyramid TPTB wish us to see,the Mayor and Civic and Industry and military/Industrial supports they have are next down,and so on and so on.There may be legitimate National Security catalysed official Gov involvement and placement on the pyramid below the owners because building 7 may have been an authorised destructon by the gov with co-operation from the Mayor and others due to who was in it and its location during the climate of the time.This pyramid structure is DESIGNED,and desigend to collpse a specific pre-determined way.

This is the pyramid TPTB want you to see and visualise,but it is not the complete picture.

TPTB are the beginning and end of the entire dynamic,they now wish to collapse the pyramid into itself destroying our belief that we need to or even can find any evidence in the wreckage.

If they cut off support from the hourglass,the money and power,they will cause the entire pyramid to implode into and onto itself,making themselves teflon,they could do this by simply remediating a high level prescence on each level of operations,effectively causeing a ripple-effect which accommodates the pyramidal power structures implosion while seamlessly providing more recruits who will immediatly be lured into the leadership void by greed and manipulation of some type.

They will shut down the flow of support in one sweeping impactfull action,let the pyramid collapse into and onto itself,then when they are sure it is convoluted enough that they will never be implicated they will turn the taps on again and innundate an entirely new cadre of minions using their time-tested methods.They will create an inflated illusion of pyramidal power one they control from inception to end an one which we belive WE CREATE and which we believe is NATURALLY OCCURING,again.

Yes,TPTB have been orchestrating the coming collapse of their creation,the structure they built with a built in auto-self destruct option.

Where once members of the Cabal involved in this existing pyramid could comfortably and subversively associate in close quarters with no worries,now they must stay apart lest someone look for a two-fer-one and try taking more than one out at the same time.

Your instincts are right,this collapse of the power pyramid is being orchestrated,you felt it then found it.

TPTB dont care that we know this dynamic is being orchestrated,simply because it will not matter unless we can stop them.To stop them we would need to identify and protect EVERY ONE of the leaders of the pyramid structure they created.....we would need to suppport and protect many people we know are guilty to get to the head of the dragon,we cannot let it destroy parts of itself to stop us.So if we can handle this reality,that we are hunting these criminals simply so we can get them into witness protection before their bosses can have them removed then we will be ok long term.

You stop TPTB by plugging the hole at the top of the pyramid by SOLIDIFYING the pyramid from the bottom up....you plug the bottom and start making concrete from the inside ,then you slowly build the integrity to wean the structure off of the flow of power and allow the growing internal strength begin to catalyse a new stronger structure which eventually fills the entire pyramidal structure with a solid intention and replaces the old from the inside out ,this will back up the flow of money and power and disenfrnchise TPTB.If we can prevent them from imploding the current power structure and if we can protect their minions from them while we replace them in the pyramids structure one by one things might get interesting.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

I happened to be on nightshift that day, i woke up to the wife watching the TV with the second plane flying in, my initial comments were "cool special effects" until she told me it was real, to this day i still think special effects ........ nose out, through steel and concrete?

originally posted by: Shadow Herder
How would that bs lead you to Israeli involvement in 911? or Ptech hijacking faa? How about insider trading, missing gold... Get it now?

So if you're not preaching the whole gospel you're a fake.

I think most are doing their best to get it, Herder. No need to kick in doors and criminalize everyone who doesn't have the same beliefs as those who can afford to investigate full-time.

For now Judy Wood seems to have done a whole lot more than you when it comes to waking up people. I've never even heard of you outside of this thread. Calm down and get going yourself.

originally posted by: feverdreams

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Shadow Herder

I really do hate this kind of arrogance

But your arrogance should be accepted by everyone else.

I think you may have got the wrong impression of the "othersideofthecoin". To me you guys seem to be able to agree on a lot.

Good reminder about all the poor bastards in middle east and elsewhere the west has been spreading democracy. I've been a in the middle east many times and there's a lot of decent people there. If us westerners are ok with what's being done to them then this same evil will soon enough come and get us too.

originally posted by: samkent
You will never convince me that all the people involved in a conspiracy as big as 911 would stay quiet.

The events of that day might have been gigantic, but that does not mean the number of people "in the know" had to be. The fewer the number of people aware of the conspiracy, the much higher the probability that the conspiracy will be pulled off successfully.

9/11 is one of the finest examples from recorded history of a conspiracy being pulled off successfully.

originally posted by: DelMarvel
What motivates many conspiracy theorists is fear of the chaos of reality. It's easier to believe everything is being controlled by elite conspirators than to believe we actually live in chaos and random crap can happen to you at any time. In this case it's more reassuring to believe there is organized conspiracy behind the sprawling "truth" movement than it is to wrap your brain around the fact that the world is full of insanity and any wacko or hoaxer with access to a computer is now part of the grand Media.

It is easier to believe a complicated theory than just what was told via the MSM? Really?

"13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic
which forbears any actual material fact. "

originally posted by: corblimeyguvnor
a reply to: Shadow Herder

I happened to be on nightshift that day, i woke up to the wife watching the TV with the second plane flying in, my initial comments were "cool special effects" until she told me it was real, to this day i still think special effects ........ nose out, through steel and concrete?

really? Special effects? You should posit that theory to the people that lost their family members that day. Or the first responders that lost their lives after because of all the garbage they were breathing in, who are still waiting for help. You know... those "HEROES" you forgot about?

a reply to: feverdreams
I totally agree with you, there are engineering and scientific facts that simply do not add up in 911. So lets look at some of the unanswered questions and known facts of the day. When a bunch of engineers and archertechs( approx 1500) that design and create these very types of buildings ( the best experts you can get) can come out at great risk to their careers and explain using scientific methods that the offical 911 story was absolute bull. When a general can draw the conclusion that 911 offical story was a load of bull. When a german disaster preperation company can do over 800 test similations and can not get these buildings to fall like they did. When buildings and planes defy the laws of high school physics as used in the offical story. When nano thermite particulates are found in the dust samples. When multiple witnesses state they heard explosions (some before the planes hit the buildings) on the day. When offical people have come out and been threaten for coming out with contradicting evidence about the day. When media outlets quickly change their newsstories on the day (the first news stories where very different from latter news stories as i saw some of the first news stories i can confirm this). When the families of 911 victims can only get a fail rate of 30% of their questions answer about 911. Where there is molten steel both coming out of the buildings and in the debrie when open air fires do not get hot enough to melt steel. Where the evidence at the pentagon does not add up and all the videos of one of the most watched buildings in america disappear Where major military exercises of a similiar nature to what occurred on the day are going on, on the other side of the country. Where significant amounts of money and gold disappear. When there is significant favourable(to the event) derivative contracts taken out. Where the events on the day had significant financial advantages for those that owned the buildings and had only recently taken out new insurance policies that spacifically included terrorism. When excuses were needed for prepared and preplanned wars and new restricting legislation for American citizens. etc etc etc.
While there is a lot hearsay and speculative evidence just who was involved is a lot harder to determine and has a lot of speculation surrounding it and it is this that most of us will never know for sure. Did some let others get away with this event ( including rogue elements on their own side) because it meant favourable outcomes to some of their goals or were they directly involved.

originally posted by: samkent

And yet not one person involved in any part of any of the conspiracy aspects of 911 has come forward.


Even the Secret Service can't nooki without the world finding out.
Clinton's BJ only involved two people but the world found out.
General Petraeus had a private fling but the world found out.

Coming forward with Clinton and Petraeus' sexcapades isn't going to get you killed.

originally posted by: corblimeyguvnor
a reply to: Shadow Herder

I happened to be on nightshift that day, i woke up to the wife watching the TV with the second plane flying in, my initial comments were "cool special effects" until she told me it was real, to this day i still think special effects ........ nose out, through steel and concrete?

In the 1980's I was walking past the network's head of the Design departments office and he called me in to take a look at some pictures of a burning office tower with an airplane sticking out the side of it.

My immediate response was "It looks like a model".

Turns out they were part of a job applicants portfolio.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: samkent
You will never convince me that all the people involved in a conspiracy as big as 911 would stay quiet.

The events of that day might have been gigantic, but that does not mean the number of people "in the know" had to be. The fewer the number of people aware of the conspiracy, the much higher the probability that the conspiracy will be pulled off successfully.

9/11 is one of the finest examples from recorded history of a conspiracy being pulled off successfully.

This is very true.

All it would take to rig the building would be a few "good" men.

The "Out of Order" elevators that had been off line for weeks leading up to 9/11 is how it could have been done.

Start at the top floor setting charges into the concrete walls of the elevator shafts as you descend, floor by floor.

I doubt any of those 'few good men' are still around.